154 replies to this topic

[Lucentos]

I`m concerned more about WoE application of Reflect Damage, OverBrand and Vanishing Point. Reflect Damage here can easily wipe an entire guild by damage spamming or heavyhitting attacks on RG, OverBrand IMHO too cheap and effective to be, like this and Vanishing Point is totally broken as being stronger than anything that Rangers, MADO Mechas(Native ranged classes) have.

Edited by Lucentos, 15 November 2010 - 10:34 PM.

[Ralis]

Roles have changed somewhat in Renewal. Rangers have some rather effective traps now. Mechanics did get the short end of the stick, yes, but I don't really see how they were ever ranged. o.o Vanishing Point only does a few thousand to one target, unless it's under the influence of Inspiration (which has a ten minute cooldown, only lasts for 90 seconds and costs 1% of your EXP) and can be reduced or blocked with Pneuma.

[Frappuccino]

why am i not surprised that ralis is arguing against nerfs for his main class, yet always willing to throw the nerf stick at others.

[Ralis]

No one is surprised that they don't want nerfs to their main class. It's kind of logical. =P

But biases aside, in my eyes there isn't anything truly OP for Royal Guards. Everything has enough drawbacks or doesn't do enough to make it seem alright. @@

[Chiisu]

Let me rephrase this because MiesterKirisaki is assuming I am attacking his beloved class.

Reflect damage alone does not cause lag what so ever.

When combined with Ifrit rings and a ton of mobs during triple spawn event it causes havoc.

It is not my rig or my connection. I have confirmation from several other people that the combo causes sever slow down and also disconnects the Royal Guard using them as well.

Also if you had biased people like Ralis and Miester doing nothing but rallying for buffs nothing would get changed.

I am posting because this hinders my gameplay. I am in no way jealous of the OBVIOUS MISUSE OF A SKILL THAT WAS NOT INTENDED TO BE USED THIS WAY.

JRO COMPLETELY REMOVED THIS SKILL FROM THEIR GAME FOR A REASON AND ARE REWORKING IT. CASE AND POINT...

Edited by Chiisu, 16 November 2010 - 01:07 AM.

[Asuki]

Roles have changed somewhat in Renewal. Rangers have some rather effective traps now. Mechanics did get the short end of the stick, yes, but I don't really see how they were ever ranged. o.o Vanishing Point only does a few thousand to one target, unless it's under the influence of Inspiration (which has a ten minute cooldown, only lasts for 90 seconds and costs 1% of your EXP) and can be reduced or blocked with Pneuma.

we aren't ranged but as mado we might as well be, all our mado skills are ranged attacks with the sole exception of pile bunker lol... and auto attacking is not viable, to slow, no ar, no 2x auto attack damage from maximum power thrust. Nor can we use any of our non 3rd class skill while in a mado suite. Short end of the stick indeed.

[FoxyWoxy]

Reflect Damage coupled with Ifrit Ring combo lags players out of the game if they have a mob on them.

I used this to lvl with a HP and none of us lagged or DCed. Incase you aren't with the current affairs http://forums.warppo...d-lag-recently/

[Myzery]

Let me rephrase this because MiesterKirisaki is assuming I am attacking his beloved class.

Reflect damage alone does not cause lag what so ever.

When combined with Ifrit rings and a ton of mobs during triple spawn event it causes havoc.

It is not my rig or my connection. I have confirmation from several other people that the combo causes sever slow down and also disconnects the Royal Guard using them as well.

Also if you had biased people like Ralis and Miester doing nothing but rallying for buffs nothing would get changed.

I am posting because this hinders my gameplay. I am in no way jealous of the OBVIOUS MISUSE OF A SKILL THAT WAS NOT INTENDED TO BE USED THIS WAY.

JRO COMPLETELY REMOVED THIS SKILL FROM THEIR GAME FOR A REASON AND ARE REWORKING IT. CASE AND POINT...

Get a better computer, I have had 3+ on my screen and don't lag.

[Myzery]

we aren't ranged but as mado we might as well be, all our mado skills are ranged attacks with the sole exception of pile bunker lol... and auto attacking is not viable, to slow, no ar, no 2x auto attack damage from maximum power thrust. Nor can we use any of our non 3rd class skill while in a mado suite. Short end of the stick indeed.

No one gives a crap about your trash class, if you want them to buff it, go complain in your own thread and not here.

[Chiisu]

I used this to lvl with a HP and none of us lagged or DCed. Incase you aren't with the current affairs http://forums.warppo...d-lag-recently/

I'm up to date with the said current affairs and use LowerPing. My connection is fine. My computer is fine.

If you are reflect killing say 5-6 mobs with this combo it is not a problem what so ever. It is only a problem late night in Juperos or Abyss Lake 3 when a Royal Gaurd pulls 20+ mobs or so and the procs go off like a machine gun coupled with reflect damage.

I play on Valkyrie, Zenny spammers create the same problem.

[FoxyWoxy]

I play a RG, I played a RG in jups when there was barely even anyone there, with no lag I was reflecting probably no less than 50 mobs (granted no rings) and nothing happened.

The only problem I found was when the server was lagging and not from damaging too many mobs but all being killed at the same time. Take out the spawn event and the only way to do this is mobbing up an empty (of players)map.

Edit: I think it's something liek this video

Edited by FoxyWoxy, 16 November 2010 - 04:22 AM.

[Brindizer]

I've mobbed the universe and still don't get disconnected, but whatever.

I still just want to know if I can relog to remove the cooltime on inspiration!

I don't see any other way to viably use Genesis Ray in PVM.

(Especially if we get the nerf stick from JRO. RG's have nothing left!)

Edited by Brindizer, 16 November 2010 - 05:22 AM.

[FoxyWoxy]

I still just want to know if I can relog to remove the cooltime on inspiration!

I remember when Ygg was a test server it didn't remove it.

Edit: Doesn't even work with prestige on ymir, just tested.

Edited by FoxyWoxy, 16 November 2010 - 05:49 AM.

[Brindizer]

I remember when Ygg was a test server it didn't remove it.

Edit: Doesn't even work with prestige on ymir, just tested.

Well, that's too bad.

And for Reflect damage, we seem to be right on track for where kRO was when their renewal launched. I remember hearing about all the kaahi'd sorcerers Psychic Waving and Royal Guards killing mobs with Reflect Damage.

I have no idea how the developers intended the use of Reflect Damage, but without a triple spawn event it's not nearly as ridiculous. It's near impossible to keep your SP positive without a large enough mob.
I don't really understand why I keep seeing people reflecting 150 damage/hit or lower, or why people are wearing fireblends or elemental swords.
Seriously. I wear a strong shield and veteran hunters so I can take the most damage as possible. Someone needs to man up and wear the BG set while they do this!

[TGNeku]

I`m concerned more about WoE application of Reflect Damage, OverBrand and Vanishing Point. Reflect Damage here can easily wipe an entire guild by damage spamming or heavyhitting attacks on RG

I fail to see how a 2 cell reflect radius can wipe a guild.

[Brindizer]

I fail to see how a 2 cell reflect radius can wipe a guild.

The only way I see it possible is by locking a huge group of people in an Extreme Vacuum/Vortex/Weird Tornado Thing and then pounding the RG with double belted 3000 SP fists.

Though that sounds to be exactly how this skill was intended!

[TGNeku]

Well, the way I see it, there are two Royal Guard builds - either a Spear build or a Reflect build. Just as any other "bread and butter" 3rd class skill, there is a specific strategy involved for reflecting. For the people who think that reflecting is overpowered in WoE, I implore you to at least try playing a reflect RG before you start whining. Is it OP? Hardly. I end up dying 90% of the time before causing any real sort of distraction. Even then without STR as a primary stat and zero spear skills it is a rare occasion that someone in WoE will die by my hands.

Basically, if a reflecting RG actually makes it into your wiz line and everyone starts frantically attacking him like a bunch of idiots, resulting in some of your wiz line dying, I do not blame that on an overpowered skill. I blame that on players.

[Doddler]

Reflect Damage on its own is strong, but my main complaint is that leveling with reflect means that the more mobs you have, the faster (and safer) you level. That's pretty messed up on several levels. It's partially the fault of monster damage being too low to out-damage kaahi, but the fact that moonlight dagger procs on reflect is also the primary culprit.

[TGNeku]

I agree that as far as leveling goes - it does tip the balance. As someone who uses the moonlight/kaahi/reflect combo I quite enjoy it. However I can see how other classes get the shaft in terms of speed, efficiency, and spawn. Personally, I see nothing wrong with kaahi/reflect on it's own as it absolutely destroys SP when mobbing. Perhaps Moonlight Dagger's SP regen should be looked into?

[Doddler]

Actually it's quite likely that reflected damage counting as an attack and hence triggering on-attack autospells and moonlight dagger is a bug. But, if and when that will happen is anyones guess.

Edited by Doddler, 16 November 2010 - 09:07 AM.

[Ralis]

If that happens, there goes our ability to level.

Renewal fails in terms of partying and leveling. I already feel like I'm rubbing my head with a cheese grater while I level, and partying is so unrewarding that no one wants to do it.

Without the 3x mobs, I don't see any problem with it. You have to get a big enough mob to gain enough SP anyways, and that's rather hard to do anywhere but Juperos or Desert Wolves. There are plenty of RKs, Genetics, Sorcerers and Warlocks that are higher levels and using Kaahi as well. Should they be nerfed, too?

[TGNeku]

Actually it's quite likely that reflected damage counting as an attack and hence triggering on-attack autospells and moonlight dagger is a bug. But, if and when that will happen is anyones guess.

I sure as hell hope it's not a bug.

Edited by TGNeku, 16 November 2010 - 03:22 PM.

[Myzery]

Reflect Damage on its own is strong, but my main complaint is that leveling with reflect means that the more mobs you have, the faster (and safer) you level. That's pretty messed up on several levels. It's partially the fault of monster damage being too low to out-damage kaahi, but the fact that moonlight dagger procs on reflect is also the primary culprit.

I think Kaahi is the issue here, it lets plenty of classes play the Superman role.
I can see how it's a problem on Valk with everyone being able to have a linker slave for free.

[FoxyWoxy]

Speaking as someone who played support pala and now support RG, the only thing I can say that is OP is at some stage from 1-150 I can Heal Slave myself without having another character auto following. Sac builds don't have many options aside party, that at one stage we can solo (even if that does include a heal slave) is nothing short of a miracle x_X

[kogimon1]

If that happens, there goes our ability to level.

Renewal fails in terms of partying and leveling. I already feel like I'm rubbing my head with a cheese grater while I level, and partying is so unrewarding that no one wants to do it.

Without the 3x mobs, I don't see any problem with it. You have to get a big enough mob to gain enough SP anyways, and that's rather hard to do anywhere but Juperos or Desert Wolves. There are plenty of RKs, Genetics, Sorcerers and Warlocks that are higher levels and using Kaahi as well. Should they be nerfed, too?

Lol then you havent seen leveling with Over Brand. Yeah sure im not gonna lie, reflect leveling is pretty sweet. Little to no supplies, fast exp(faster with spawn event). But I could easily keep up with our genetic leveling speed using Overbrand.