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#51 Ralis

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 11:30 PM

Over Brand is fine for someone with high Strength and Attack, sure, but other builds can't really use it that well.
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#52 kogimon1

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 11:44 PM

dont even need high str to do enough damage to 2 shot dragons. I did it fine with 60 str.
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#53 Ralis

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 11:59 PM

Hmm, might have to put some points in it earlier then.
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#54 LordVader

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 01:35 AM

I said this earlier in a different thread, but Shield Press is not being amplified by the Gloomy Shyness buff.

Tested again today and seems to be working.... Maybe I was mistaken.

O take out the TONS of terrible prereqs that make RG so tough to build correctly. Piety max is ridiculous. Genesis Ray is fairly crappy imo as well. But I would be so Happy if Shield Boom was reduced to level 3 for RS instead of maxing it out. Piety dropped from lvl 5 to 3. Genesis Ray dropped to 3. By 3 I mean the prereqs for Inspiration.

Or allow 3rd classes to gain job 60 /ok.

Remove the xp loss penalty for Inspiration in Woe Castles (just dumb that noone else loses exp in woe.)

Also why is shield press forced neutral? That makes no sense when it's a melee skill. Or are you guys just trigger happy on force neutral to Pally class skills?

Edited by LordVader, 18 November 2010 - 11:57 PM.

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#55 kogimon1

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 09:51 AM

The exp loss is .1% get over it. Inspiration is way OP. If you could have all the skills you want it would be retarded strong. Learn to be a good player.
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#56 LordVader

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 09:59 AM

The exp loss is .1% get over it. Inspiration is way OP. If you could have all the skills you want it would be retarded strong. Learn to be a good player.


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#57 MeisterKirisaki

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 05:23 PM

- There is no need to give Royal Guards 59 skill points. It's obvious that you shall not have every skill you desire, read: intended and part of the game. Other classes can't get every great skill either.
There is no need to redo skill prerequisites.

- Inspiration drains 0,1% EXP for a reason. If that bothers you, you should use it at level 150 only, at 0% EXP or just don't use it at all. No Royal Guard complains about the EXP loss - except for one who wants to be God in the game.


The only thing Royal Guards should really complain about should be the missing icon for Reflect Damage, asking for more clearly shows a lack of sense for balance.
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#58 DeltaRay

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 06:47 PM

I said this earlier in a different thread, but Shield Press is not being amplified by the Gloomy Shyness buff.

Tested again today and seems to be working.... Maybe I was mistaken.

O take out the TONS of terrible prereqs that make RG so tough to build correctly. Piety max is ridiculous. Genesis Ray is fairly crappy imo as well. But I would be so Happy if Shield Boom was reduced to level 3 for RS instead of maxing it out. Piety dropped from lvl 5 to 3. Genesis Ray dropped to 3. By 3 I mean the prereqs for Inspiration.

Or allow 3rd classes to gain job 60 /ok.

Remove the xp loss penalty for Inspiration in Woe Castles (just dumb that noone else loses exp in woe.)

Also why is shield press forced neutral? That makes no sense when it's a melee skill. Or are you guys just trigger happy on force neutral to Pally class skills?


the exp lost is an ACTIVATION for the skill kinda like using up an EDP bottle to use EDP.Its fine the way it is.
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#59 LordVader

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 01:09 AM

- There is no need to give Royal Guards 59 skill points. It's obvious that you shall not have every skill you desire, read: intended and part of the game. Other classes can't get every great skill either.
There is no need to redo skill prerequisites.

- Inspiration drains 0,1% EXP for a reason. If that bothers you, you should use it at level 150 only, at 0% EXP or just don't use it at all. No Royal Guard complains about the EXP loss - except for one who wants to be God in the game.


The only thing Royal Guards should really complain about should be the missing icon for Reflect Damage, asking for more clearly shows a lack of sense for balance.



But I do know that there are more 3rd class skills and skill point expansion planned for the future so I believe in the long run that issue will resolve itself.


Lol Meister you are terrible indeed. It's clearly been stated already that there are MORE SKILLS AND SKILL POINT EXPANSION in the plans. I really do get tired of people getting emo and having nothing of substance to contribute, only showing their heads for the occasional poo flinging contest.

Not losing XP in woe makes me God? You need to get out more kid.

Where did I say only RG should have their skill pts increased? O that's right, I didn't! I know I can't and shouldn't be able to get EVERY skill in the tree and even with 60 pts I wouldn't be able to do this. You seem to be reaching very hard to try and make a point, but still all you can do is fail more. <_<
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#60 MeisterKirisaki

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 10:23 AM

terrible [...] emo [...] kid [...] fail

You should work on your communication skills (if that fits into your skill tree); my reply didn't include any opinion based on emotion, I usually don't waste such on internet debates. You're basically the only person who thinks Royal Guards are too weak and need a buff - that's your opinion, but you have to live with contrary opinions. That shouldn't be the end of your life nor should it hurt your feelings, there's always somone who will disagree with you, take it like a man/woman (whatever you feel you should be).
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#61 Bomm

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 01:19 PM

funny thing is that all the strongest classes (Suras, Royal Guards, Genetics) are crying for buffs.
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#62 Myzery

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 11:46 AM

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I actually agree here. Many classes get huge power up skills with no penalties, why should RGs?
Maybe it just fits into the classes persona somehow of making sacrifices? Still pretty harsh for Valk ppl.
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#63 Skank

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 01:43 PM

so you're really complaining about a skill having a catalyst that is completely removed from the equation at 150? lets remove the acid bottle/bomb requirement from ad, the flowerpots from howl and the thorny seeds from vines because other classes get huge powerup skills with no catalysts.

sounds just as stupid when you say it
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#64 Myzery

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 03:31 PM

so you're really complaining about a skill having a catalyst that is completely removed from the equation at 150? lets remove the acid bottle/bomb requirement from ad, the flowerpots from howl and the thorny seeds from vines because other classes get huge powerup skills with no catalysts.

sounds just as stupid when you say it


Those things aren't buffs, so that's a really bad comparison.
Should gloomy take exp? Should rising dragon take exp?
I'm 150, but I wouldn't go around spamming it otherwise.
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#65 MeisterKirisaki

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 03:46 PM

Just compare it to Frenzy or MR, at the end of the day, most Royal Guards won't complain about the EXP loss, we're also talking about a class that can (as of now) level fast and easy. The future situation will see nerfs to RGs, not buffs, as an RG you should fight those potential nerfs and not ask for silly buffs.
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#66 Skank

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 04:20 PM

Those things aren't buffs, so that's a really bad comparison.
Should gloomy take exp? Should rising dragon take exp?
I'm 150, but I wouldn't go around spamming it otherwise.


should edp take poison bottles? should fcp require glistening coats?

the answer is a resounding: yes
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#67 Skank

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 04:22 PM

inspiration is better than edp, doesn't require mats and has no cost to the user if they are 150.

it's pretty funny that you're actually advocating to make inspiration better when every other version out there is nerfing it or is going to nerf it.
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#68 Myzery

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 04:26 PM

inspiration is better than edp, doesn't require mats and has no cost to the user if they are 150.

it's pretty funny that you're actually advocating to make inspiration better when every other version out there is nerfing it or is going to nerf it.


I don't even care tbh, but it seems harsh for Valk.
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#69 DuoMegistus

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 01:10 AM

Its a good thing Im not the guy revising some of this stuff cuz thatd be a lame job =/.That being said I dont see why I cant throw in my 2 cents:

Reflect damage-Im not sure how you can nerf or reduce its effectiveness as its a pretty simple concept,"Reflect damage in an area".

-Take out the fact that it dosnt count as an attack=lame
-Reduce AOE/Reflect% is something I dont see happening.
-Make Kaahi Unusable with reflect,would be pure predjeduce.
-Reducing the amount of heal you get from kaahi,wouldnt solve the problem and would screw other classes,who happen to do the same exact thing but dont get any complaints...

Heres how you get exp-you walk in with kaahi and selective gear,turn on RD,wait for stuff to die while you are perpetual in terms of HP/SP values.you have the ability to pull mobs & kill.What other classes atm have the ability to mob and kill at the same time with the help of kaahi? Sorc/Warlock/RG.
Diffrent skills,same basic concept-get kaahi/sp source,pull mobs and have the ability to kill them.And if you think RG's pull half the map then try going to AL3 and watch a sorc with edggas pull for a while,then youll actually know what your talking about.

Skill Tree-RG skill prereqs are dumb as <_<.BUT Reducing pre reqs just to get closer to superman is kinda lame.I suggest a diffrent route of moving pre reqs to skills that are more usefull for RGs in general.

For example instead of Piety 5 as a pre req for Inspir,make it Piety 3 and shield press 5.Same skill points just moved around so that you actually get skill that are usefull,this way you dont get lame ass skills that dont do anything for your ability to fight,also shield press is an awsm skill for both defensive and offensive types so it works out great.

While these ideas maybe Dumb or nonpolished id emplore the ppl in this thread to start throwing ideas around,instead of fighting,If you havent noticed theres like only 8 diffrent ppl here so we have to do our best for our class!!

Also hiem I love you buddy but you gotta know that "storyline Concepts" Need to be limited in its power over our Playstyles,Having The power to fight for the holy war is cool and all but you gotta think practicly.This isnt neccesarily for RG's,(you did pretty good)but more for other classes...(Genetics get guns in there carts..but mechanics dont...at least make it like a Seed bomb or something like from a plant in the cart.)
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#70 Sera

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 01:25 AM

Royal Guard
Total number of skills: 19
Total number of skillpoints: 92

Mechanic
Total number of skills: 29
Total number of skillpoints: 102

Wanderer
Total number of skills: 24
Total number of skillpoints: 121

What are you guys complaining about again?
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#71 DuoMegistus

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 09:01 AM

Im not complaining about anything I just think that a reworking of the skill tree is a good idea,as some of the skills you have to get as pre reqs are dumb,or flat out usless.You have to remember theres more to RG than Reflect and Inspir,have you looked at HL/Banding lately?Takes your whole tree last time I checked.Also remember that In that example you have,that RGs have to get pretty much every skill as a pre req and that most of them are synergistic towords the end result,of those 19 skills,you have to put at least 3 or more ponts in over 10 of them.Also its not our fault gravity made wanderers buff slaves now.I dont think its fair that because we seem better off we dont deserve to have our class scrutinized for potential problems or improvements,most of this is coming from the fact that the other classes need to be reworked.

As for skills is there any way to fix the rage counters from Vanguard force?They dissapear after you Fly wing but are still there.Also Priestege sometimes"misfires"when I use it.Has anyone else experienced this problem?(I Use it but I dont get the effect & I get the reuse delay and have to wait.)

As far as undesireable things Id like to again mention HL,the prereqs needed take your entire tree.Granted as stated earlier you get most of the other skill needed to be effective in lvling,but you have to have 3 total ppl sacrifice there skill builds/trees in order to use it.Is it really that powerfull and if so why is no one talking about it?
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#72 Skank

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Posted 22 November 2010 - 10:28 AM

it's almost like they intended royal guards to have to specialize between defensive and offensive skills.

almost
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#73 Lucentos

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 04:22 AM

it's almost like they intended royal guards to have to specialize between defensive and offensive skills.

almost

There are only one issue - many defensive skills are placed on 2nd job and therefore can coexist with 3rd class offensive skills. The only solution to solve this is to make prequisites for 3rd class offensive skills require many 2nd class offensive skills.
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#74 LordVader

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 04:44 PM

Royal Guard
Total number of skills: 19
Total number of skillpoints: 92

Mechanic
Total number of skills: 29
Total number of skillpoints: 102

Wanderer
Total number of skills: 24
Total number of skillpoints: 121

What are you guys complaining about again?


The point isn't completely the total number of skills and skill points to the whole tree but also how it is affected by the prereqs.

To get all of the trans prereqs for RG you need to get job level 65 as trans for the prereqs alone.

Genetic premiere damage skill only requires summon flora (6 job levels, 17 if you never intended on getting acid bomb). That's IT for prereqs for them on 2nd class tree. Nowhere near 65 job levels. Hell plant only takes 11 levels. Cart Canon 7 skill pts. Job 18 and you have 2 of the most powerful genetic skills on the tree.

Mechanic skill tree is similar, no prereqs over 3.

Wanderer/Maestro has ONE prereq in the 2nd class skill tree that only takes 6 skill pts. Not 65 skill points. Also a class with no prereqs over 3 in the 3rd class tree and only a few of those. Rest are all level 1 prereqs.

RG is a good class, don't get me wrong but it comes riddled with HEAVY prereqs that are completely useless. Shield Reflect is a uselessly redundant skill that once you have RD you only use it to toggle RD off/on since there is no icon. GC 5= waste. Piety 5= over kill. RoG 4 wasteful overkill. Spear Mastery 10 for Spear Quicken is wasteful overkill. Shield Boom 5 for RS, should be level 3. I'm not saying ALL of these skills should be changed b/c then the prereqs would probably give LOTS of room to make the class immensely OP.

But take this into consideration, I went job level 70 trans. After getting all of the prereqs for 3rd class skills. I have ZERO of the trans class skills. No BC, no GD, no RS, no MR. With the current prereqs to make a decent RG you have to omit the pally skills completely from the tree. That's just retarded imo. I can't think of another 3rd class that after reaching job 70 trans can't afford to fit any of their trans skills in their build.
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#75 MeisterKirisaki

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 06:00 PM

Crusader/Paladin prerequisites for Inspiration: 38
Crusader/Paladin prerequisites for Sacrifice: 37

Crusader/Paladin prerequisites for Overbrand: 1

(38+1) = 39 =/= 65


For decent Crusader/Paladin skills, a lot of prerequisites were needed, for decent Royal Guard skills, a lot of prerequistes are required, this is intended and forces people to focus on a few good skills instead of getting any and every offensive and defensive skill. Some call it skill planning, it worked as Crusader/Paladin, it also works as Royal Guard.


- Shield Reflect is not useless
- 10 points of these 38/39 prerequisites = Faith which is not useless
- Guard isn't amazing, but it isn't useless either
- I can get Gloria Domini 5, Cavalier Mastery 5, BC 1, Sacrifice 5 - that's with a decent Royal Guard build; making it meant I had to choose and pick skills instead of wanting everything a Royal Guard has to offer


If they would soften skill building for Royal Guards, everyone would have the same build, but with more power there should be also more weaknesses, it's called balance, and the skill tree for Royal Guards is much more balanced than (as a few/many claim) Royal Guard skills.
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