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VCR Priest Report!


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#1 Otiran

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 04:24 PM

Hello Fellow concerned gamers!
 
CandyVivi and I have been working on making the right decisions in making sure that priests are a fair and balance class. We want to make sure that everyone's voice is heard and debated. 
 
We have created a spreadsheet which we have made accessible to everyone. You can see everyone's comments/suggestions in one go and we left room for our comments and thoughts to be heard. ( The spreadsheets needs some pazzaz. We are working on it. Moar colors and pie charts to come.)
 
 
If you see that your suggestion got no comment, it does not mean that it has not been looked at and discuss. I know for me personally stats is something that is difficult to talk about given the fact that a lot of is is out of whack. I eagerly await the Wp team to give us more insight into how the stats are currently being looked at as I hope it is something that is high in their list of priority for fixes. 
 
Here is a summary of what we are trying to push for:
 
- DoT percentage swap.   
- DoT damage reduction.
- Aqua Benedicta being a party/Raid skill
- Judex will have a 30 second CD ( WIth haste and vigor it will be lower o.o)
- Make gloria erase the CD for Judex
 
sLiA4fY.png
 
 
 
This seems like a short list, but we also mention the possibility of removing weapon effect and VIP tag for the lag problem. This might seem like a short report but I would like to remind you that this is a weekly report. We will be hopefully getting some feedback soon and we shall be more prepared next week with a longer report ;D.
 
We would like to call on everyone who is reading this to go to the priest feeback post and give us furhter suggestions. We are looking into making the the support tree more useful. It would be nice to have some more feedback. ( We know we have already gotten some. Give us more! :D )
 
 
- Your VCR priest
  Candyvivi and Otirano
 
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 sorry cats don't seem to like you. :D
 
 
 

Edited by Otiran, 21 March 2014 - 04:31 PM.

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#2 ChocoVivi

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 04:35 PM

Please please feel free to leave a post here or pm us in game if you have any comments or concerns. Don't be shy, we don't bite :DD ...o wait, nvm we might bite >_>


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#3 kimsera

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 05:17 PM

In my opinion I'd hold off messing with dots because we have yet to see the other classes at their full potential. I mean, if a priest complains that their dots are simply too high compared to other classes which leads to priests being "too OP" in PvP against other classes then.. well, we also must consider that fire flower, poison weapon, that warrior dot, and the hit/dodge formula is currently broken.

 

The new level 5 Oratio does less damage than the current level 1 Oratio? I'm okay with that because I'd rather put my points into Adoramus, thought it is a little drastic. From playing Reague of Regends and Doto, Rito and Valve usually have two nerf scenarios:

  • Scenario 1: Blatantly nerfing raw numbers eg. 15/35/55/75/95 from 50/80/110/140/170 (Lee Singa's new Q, RIP.)
  • Scenario 2: Adjusting the scaling of the skill eg. 60/79/93/113/140 from 50/80/110/140/170.
    This is not really a complete nerf, but it allows player to weight the options of whether it is sufficiently enterprising to invest more points in the skill or not.

.

Also this kind of makes oratio obsolete no? Players will less enticed to put their stat points into a nerfed skill, and thus they get phased out.

 

I liked Doppio's ideas of QoL updates on the priest's utility skills such those those skills under Gloria. (Archangel is already #BALLER though.) If you guys make them interesting enough, and the Dev's follow through, then you reproduce Scenario 2- where players will weigh out investing their skill points on the utility tree rather than just blindly maxing dots. Because at this point in time, in my opinion, priests are in a rather comfortable state once you get the extra 20 skill points. Nerfing the raw numbers in Oratio only forces us to put our points into the next FotM dot, which isn't really a big deal, but just a little bit of a hassle.

 

tl;dr: Skills should not be phased out- you should make other skills more useful so that the opportunity cost of just maxing dots is lower.


Edited by kimsera, 21 March 2014 - 05:21 PM.

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#4 138130526004516927

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 05:24 PM

 

- Judex will have a 30 second CD ( WIth haste and vigor it will be lower o.o)
- Make gloria erase the CD for Judex

 

This needs some serious justification. Was the idea to nerf the 5 sec stun? Was it to nerf Priest AoE? Was it to nerf Priests as viable lurers? Because it does all of these things and nerfs Judex into the ground. 30 seconds seems arbitrary and quite long. Also, Gloria is already used for three other skills, and I would feel absolutely trolled if I had to use an instance of Gloria to cast Judex. Personally, I would rather lose stun altogether than to see this implemented, and mind you I do enjoy using those clutch stuns.

 

I want answers!  xD


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#5 Sestuplo

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 05:29 PM

Clarification: Suffragim gives a bonus to haste. Priest gear doesn't give Haste, it gives Cast Speed.


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#6 138130526004516927

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 05:34 PM

I would feel absolutely trolled if I had to use an instance of Gloria to cast Judex.

 

Unless it summoned unicorns, but I'm assuming it doesn't.


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#7 ChocoVivi

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 05:53 PM

The increased CD on judex is to disable chain stun. (Currently, a priest can chain stun and disable an enemy for 15+ sec.) And when gloria is proc'd it will reset Judex CD.

 

We will include the suffragium as a bug that requires a fix in our next report. Thanks for all the questions and concerns, we welcome all ideas and voices ;)

 


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#8 Otiran

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 06:21 PM

 

  • Scenario 1: Blatantly nerfing raw numbers eg. 15/35/55/75/95 from 50/80/110/140/170 (Lee Singa's new Q, RIP.)

I liked Doppio's ideas of QoL updates on the priest's utility skills such those those skills under Gloria. (Archangel is already #BALLER though.) If you guys make them interesting enough, and the Dev's follow through, then you reproduce Scenario 2- where players will weigh out investing their skill points on the utility tree rather than just blindly maxing dots. Because at this point in time, in my opinion, priests are in a rather comfortable state once you get the extra 20 skill points. Nerfing the raw numbers in Oratio only forces us to put our points into the next FotM dot, which isn't really a big deal, but just a little bit of a hassle.

 

Maybe I should have clarified this in my original post. What we did when we nerfed the DoT's is this: 
 
We nerfed them -15% and swaped them around. So really the DoT percents are still there but on different skill minus 15% of the damage. We needed to nerf them as we did sense that it was a very high damage dot in combination with our easy to do stuns. The other VCR's are looking into their DoT's. They are all looking either to buff/or nerf them depending on what needs to be done. It seems to be a general consensus for priests is that either they stay or get a slight nerf. I think that 15% might be a good reduction.  And don't be too alarmed when you see Oratio go from 136% to 87%. The 87% comes from lvl 1 adoramus ( which is 102% initially ) minus 15%.
 
Unfortunatly I feel kind of a inedequate for asking but could you clarify what I have highlighted in red. For the QoL updates maybe doppio can even give us some clarification. 
 
Oration isn't to be thought of as an obsolete skill. It's still instant cast ( Yes I know it misses quite a bit) and you can move arround while casting it. When you use it in combination with ME it's good and not too OP at this percentage for PVE.  As for PVP you still have Adoramus and Credo which I still think deals a good amount of damage.
 
We are looking into making the utility/support tree appealing. We are just looking at idea's posted so far and look forward to more idea coming on the forums. 
 
We are looking to make recovery more useful ( Possibly making it single person cast /w with it being able to cure more status effects).
A lot of people are looking into wanting Agi up to be buffed also. We just haven't found the proper %/duration for the skill that we are happy with. 
 
Thanks for the feedback :D
 
EDIT : Shortened the quote.

Edited by Otiran, 21 March 2014 - 06:31 PM.

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#9 Exvee

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 06:54 PM

It's possible to ask devs to actually work on CC status? I think the more problem lies in the status itself. Sure they already working on frozen (limiting Embus, Sorc's freeze) but not looking others like fall, stun, silence..Cool down doesn't work during old time in SEA server last year cos we can just gang up more sorc and wiz to recast (which is why they give strong will buff instead)...

 

tldr: give those status "strong will" buff too when we got them so no 5 Priests chaining stuns...


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#10 KnightOf0

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 07:01 PM

 

 
Here is a summary of what we are trying to push for:
 
- DoT percentage swap.   
- DoT damage reduction.
- Aqua Benedicta being a party/Raid skill
- Judex will have a 30 second CD ( WIth haste and vigor it will be lower o.o)
- Make gloria erase the CD for Judex

 

 

As the VCRs of the priest class, you should consider balancing the class taking into account all aspect of the class' gameplay and everyone's playing style.

 

DoT percentage swap - Why do you want this?  Look at the amount of opposition on Kenichi's post for even mentioning it to Njor.  This is an extremely unpopular proposal I do not believe a VCR can make it happen while covering every priests mouth here.  

 

If the other classes think priests dot are too strong, they will propose to get their dots up to match against us.  We do not have to think "oh we are too strong let's do something", taking the dev's working style into account, what if you get us nerfed then other VCRs get their classes buffed.  Can you take the damage of double nerfing yourself?

 

Also, what about battle priests or priests that use their char to hunt/farm items and zeny.  You did not consider their situations.  Do not assume they don't exist.  Obviously you only have PvP in your mind when talking about the dots.  How are priests going to farm, hunt or solo grind mp efficiently compare to other classes.  Priests already have slow dps (holy light, RoG, Dots we don't even have a basic attack that give us fast dps).  

 

Your DoT damage reduction will come when the devs put back the colo gear damage reduction and the CLS (master johoon) defense seed effect in colo.  Tell them to fix that first then you will see the dot's really isn't that big of a deal.

 

Aqua benedict give party SP?  no comment whatever.

 

Judex 30 sec CD - why again?  to stop the chain stun?  Well that's a choice of skill point usage, at level 1 you get 3 second of stun, at level 3 you get 5 second of stun.  Some priests will give up other skills to get 5 seconds stun, why can't you let priests have a PvP build (if they wanted)?  Judex with stun needs a holy water each time, the max you get is 15 sec of chain stun, it's not like you can chain stun non-stop and with the current hit/dodge not all stun will hit.  

 

Back in the days when raids were popular we needed Judex to (chain) stun Abysses for rm h, it's a useful skill, don't destroy it because it's "over power" in PvP.  Think about all aspect of the gameplay and all style of playing before making a suggestion.

 

Make gloria erase judex cd - this is so specifically chosen that it make me feel there is a conspiracy behind it.  We are not sorcs, don't make us roll dice for our skills.  Priests need precision to safe lives. 

 

According to Njor

 

"The VCRs will be responsible for submitting weekly reports on their classes each Friday, showcasing the current bugs and balance issues that each class has, as well as providing any additional suggestions or feedback from the class community. "

 

If you want to bring up a balancing issues for your first homework, it will be the hit/dodge in PvP that is plaguing everyone right now.  Otherwise we are just fine, we like to PvE with our dots and support in party with our Judex.  Sacrificing PvE for your PvP oriented idea is not balancing at all.


Edited by KnightOf0, 21 March 2014 - 07:04 PM.

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#11 flukeSG2

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 08:03 PM

As the VCRs of the priest class, you should consider balancing the class taking into account all aspect of the class' gameplay and everyone's playing style.

 

"The VCRs will be responsible for submitting weekly reports on their classes each Friday, showcasing the current bugs and balance issues that each class has, as well as providing any additional suggestions or feedback from the class community. "

 

If you want to bring up a balancing issues for your first homework, it will be the hit/dodge in PvP that is plaguing everyone right now.  Otherwise we are just fine, we like to PvE with our dots and support in party with our Judex.  Sacrificing PvE for your PvP oriented idea is not balancing at all.

 

The idea is to fix class bugs and to balance them against the other classes.  The hit/dodge issue is only something we can all put down as a suggestion to change, but without a solid solution for the hit/dodge problem we aren't going to get it fixed any faster.

 

PvE and PvP are tied together, how can you expect to keep OP healing or DoTs for PvE cause thats what you like to do, and not have it for PvP.  Basically what you are asking for, is to change all the other classes defense and attack to build around your class being OP in both, so you can keep your PvE skill powers the same.

 

I did some duels with Oti today, I was trying to give her the view point of other classes and how they see priests being OP and in what aspect, I hope I was of some help.


Edited by flukeSG2, 21 March 2014 - 08:05 PM.

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#12 ChocoVivi

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 09:25 PM

It's possible to ask devs to actually work on CC status? I think the more problem lies in the status itself. Sure they already working on frozen (limiting Embus, Sorc's freeze) but not looking others like fall, stun, silence..Cool down doesn't work during old time in SEA server last year cos we can just gang up more sorc and wiz to recast (which is why they give strong will buff instead)...

 

tldr: give those status "strong will" buff too when we got them so no 5 Priests chaining stuns...

 

I have been thinking about the same idea since the embus era, but after discussion we agreed that there are circumstances where coordinated stun lock should be in place.

 

As the VCRs of the priest class, you should consider balancing the class taking into account all aspect of the class' gameplay and everyone's playing style.

[...Shortened quote so it's less of a wall of text.]

If you want to bring up a balancing issues for your first homework, it will be the hit/dodge in PvP that is plaguing everyone right now.  Otherwise we are just fine, we like to PvE with our dots and support in party with our Judex.  Sacrificing PvE for your PvP oriented idea is not balancing at all. 

 

Please be aware that forum is not the only place we gather suggestions and comments from, nor do we hear only from priest class.

 

Regarding DoTs damage, I still remember how I feel the first day of the DoTs rebalance. When I did Chaos Dungeon, most of the times I would be the top DPS on the threat meter right below the tank; sometimes I OT too >_> SInce day 1 of the change, I had been expecting priest DoTs to be nerfed within a few patches because I knew it wasn't right, but that just never happened. So as time passes by, I guess a lot of priests forget the fact that we were never a DPS class to begin with; even pure DPS priests were not as good as other DPS classes. And please keep in mind that, the DoTs aren't even nerfed much because I knew priests are not gonna like it, so we only proposed a minor 15% nerf and a swap in dmg% so that oratio<credo<adoramus.

 

And regarding Judex, we may rework the idea to take care of your concern. I understand that it's useful when pulling mobs, and maybe in RMH (I did alright with my 3 sec stun pre-aov). But yea, we can still brainstorm and try to come up with a better way to fix chain stun. By "we", I mean the whole community! Please give us some suggestions on to how to fix chain stun~


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#13 kimsera

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 11:23 PM

Unfortunatly I feel kind of a inedequate for asking but could you clarify what I have highlighted in red. For the QoL updates maybe doppio can even give us some clarification. 

 

Honestly, if the disparity between lv. 5 Adoramaus and lv. 5 Oratio is that great, what is the average player, a priest that does not wield a +20 weapon with enough agi to land all their skills, going to put their skill points into? Is the average priest going to WoE and PvP classes that have high dodge instead of bosses that that simply don't? You can see, that in the example I provided, even though they nerfed Lee Sin's Q's to the ground, it's damage ratio at the new, nerfed level 5 is still higher than that of the old level 1.There is justification for why Rito games did that, and I can write paragraphs about it, but still, the playerbase is INCREDIBLY unsatisfied with what they did. Saying that you nerfed instant-cast dots by 15% is reasonable- but is it reasonable once you look at it in the long run? When you step back and factor in DPS in pure numbers, if someone puts a gun to your head and tells you to spend 4 points into either Adoramus or Oratio, no one is going to choose to put 4 points into a 135% MATK Oratio over a 209% MATK Adoramus, especially if they fix the hit/dodge formula, if ever. When you can get a large amount of Vigor from honing and Osiris gears, no one is going to give a second thought about the channeling time of Adoramus when you get +80% MATK from leveling Adoramus to 5 than Oratio. That said, no one isn't going to not use Oratio, because you'll be dropping a large amount of damage by doing so, but its going to make leveling it to level 5 unappealing. Your justification that Oratio is still useful after the nerf is that it is instant-cast, and therefore you have less room for error (ie. missing) because you can repeatedly spam the skill with less consequences when compared to Adoramus, where you have a large room for error (which is mitigated somewhat thru vigor), but a bigger payoff (ie. damage). But the truth is, the dynamic of this changes when they fix hit/dodge. 

 

If you want to look at Doppio's QoL proposals, I should direct you to the other priest threads where he posts there with his proposals in detail. I mean, as VCR's you guys should be actively looking at them right?

 

 

 

So really the DoT percents are still there but on different skill minus 15% of the damage. We needed to nerf them as we did sense that it was a very high damage dot in combination with our easy to do stuns. 

 

 

 

Because from your posts, it seems like the justification for nerfing dots is because it allows priests to do too much damage and get away with it in conjunction to stuns. From Vivi's post, she stated that there are circumstances where stun lock is appropriate. (Please elaborate further from this. I'm sure people are dieing to know. Explosive ads from raids?) Even if you increase the cooldown for Judex to 30s, that doesn't stop a priest from popping a Wind Elixer or that speed buff to avoid taking damage. You can still kite classes that do not have gap closers and run around in circles with your newly nerfed dots. In worse cases, you also have HoT's to sustain damage.

 

And about Priests doing too much damage? I still can't out dps classes of my caliber in Chaos Dungeon even though I am pretty well geared with +20 Osiris weapons, 3s AGI+INT Costumes and Ramort card set.   But in my defense, i was too lazy to get that Collectors buff nor bother with level 4 pets. xD You also have to consider that a major amount of other classes' sustained DPS, ie from DoT's and SP costs of caster classes which hinder them from achieving an optimal DPS build are BROKEN, so this is a faulty argument to begin with.

 

My point is, you cannot do MASSIVE changes to the dynamic of a class when the basic components of this game, such as stat balancing are still up for major overhauls.There are different ways to approach a nerf- different scaling, different duration of [DoT, stun] statuses, cooldowns etc. I implore you guys to look at more creative ways to nerf/buff skills because at the moment, I honestly feel like it's dissatisfying. I'm pretty sure simply nerfing 2 very different skills, with different scaling and damage ranges, by a static percentage is not the optimal way of approaching this situation. Too many MAJOR changes at one time have a larger chance for leaving a bad taste on the community- just look at AoV. At in this state of the game, I wouldn't want to take those chances.

 

 

We are looking into making the utility/support tree appealing. We are just looking at idea's posted so far and look forward to more idea coming on the forums. 

 
We are looking to make recovery more useful ( Possibly making it single person cast /w with it being able to cure more status effects).
 
4NuzBp9.gif

I'm pretty this is what the priest community is more interested in this than anything else because it provides a broader sense of balancing to the class rather than just nerfing what is deemed "OP" at the moment. But unfortunately, from content and structure of the post, the highlight of your report seems to be the DoT nerf/rebalance and stunlocking which consists of small percentage of the priest discussion thread, instead of the many posts that exude the need to make unappealing skills in the utility tree useful.
 

Edited by kimsera, 22 March 2014 - 12:50 AM.

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#14 138130526004516927

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 07:11 AM

It's possible to ask devs to actually work on CC status? I think the more problem lies in the status itself. Sure they already working on frozen (limiting Embus, Sorc's freeze) but not looking others like fall, stun, silence..Cool down doesn't work during old time in SEA server last year cos we can just gang up more sorc and wiz to recast (which is why they give strong will buff instead)...

 

tldr: give those status "strong will" buff too when we got them so no 5 Priests chaining stuns...

 

I want to add that we haven't yet seen Elemental Resistance(?) implemented in Ro2. If Wisdom decreases the chances of becoming stunned and the like, then the 30 second cool down for Judex becomes unnecessary. I think it is premature to advocate such a significant change.

 

 

Even if you increase the cooldown for Judex to 30s, that doesn't stop a priest from popping a Wind Elixer or that speed buff to avoid taking damage. You can still kite classes that do not have gap closers and run around in circles with your newly nerfed dots. In worse cases, you also have HoT's to sustain damage.

 

And about Priests doing too much damage? I still can't out dps classes of my caliber in Chaos Dungeon even though I am pretty well geared with +20 Osiris weapons, 3s AGI+INT Costumes and Ramort card set.   But in my defense, i was too lazy to get that Collectors buff nor bother with level 4 pets. xD You also have to consider that a major amount of other classes' sustained DPS, ie from DoT's and SP costs of caster classes which hinder them from achieving an optimal DPS build are BROKEN, so this is a faulty argument to begin with.

 

My point is, you cannot do MASSIVE changes to the dynamic of a class when the basic components of this game, such as stat balancing are still up for major overhauls.There are different ways to approach a nerf- different scaling, different duration of [DoT, stun] statuses, cooldowns etc. I implore you guys to look at more creative ways to nerf/buff skills because at the moment, I honestly feel like it's dissatisfying. I'm pretty sure simply nerfing 2 very different skills, with different scaling and damage ranges, by a static percentage is not the optimal way of approaching this situation. Too many MAJOR changes at one time have a larger chance for leaving a bad taste on the community- just look at AoV. At in this state of the game, I wouldn't want to take those chances.


I'm pretty this is what the priest community is more interested in this than anything else because it provides a broader sense of balancing to the class rather than just nerfing what is deemed "OP" at the moment. But unfortunately, from content and structure of the post, the highlight of your report seems to be the DoT nerf/rebalance and stunlocking which consists of small percentage of the priest discussion thread, instead of the many posts that exude the need to make unappealing skills in the utility tree useful.

 

 

+1


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Posted 22 March 2014 - 07:50 AM

The idea is to fix class bugs and to balance them against the other classes.  The hit/dodge issue is only something we can all put down as a suggestion to change, but without a solid solution for the hit/dodge problem we aren't going to get it fixed any faster.

 

PvE and PvP are tied together, how can you expect to keep OP healing or DoTs for PvE cause thats what you like to do, and not have it for PvP.  Basically what you are asking for, is to change all the other classes defense and attack to build around your class being OP in both, so you can keep your PvE skill powers the same.

 

I did some duels with Oti today, I was trying to give her the view point of other classes and how they see priests being OP and in what aspect, I hope I was of some help.

 

Knightof0 seems to be more concerned with his build being ignored and destroyed rather than to "change all the other classes defense and attack to build around [his] class being OP in both, so [he] can keep [his] PvE skill powers the same." This is assuming he has any power comparable to anyone with maxed-out gears.

 

Regarding PvP vs PvE: Whenever I see someone post that they had a PvP with another player to show how OP priests are, I am curious to know the gears that both players are using. I assume that in many cases both classes are Master Level 20 and have nearly maxed-out gears. Using data solely from high level and high gear battles to warrant class changes across the board can be damaging to game play for everyone. Maybe the +20 Osiris gear could be a major contributor to the imbalance?

 

Granted many players rushed to end-game content, we must remember that in order to increase the player base of this game we must be cautious not to disrupt game play for players who aren't maxed-out or who may not even have a desire to max-out (keeping in mind the difficulty of obtaining infinium to make +20 gear feasible).

 

This argument seems, at least to me, not to be between PvP and PvE, but more along the lines of "p2w" vs f2p. It appears that some people refuse to spend money on this game until they see some consistent improvements, and that is totally understandable. For those who continue to support Ro2, I think they may deserve some advantages since they are making the game possible for others (barring any serious imbalance issues like Priests being stupid-good in PvP).

 

However, before we can honestly say that Priests are overpowered in PvP enough to warrant changes that affect all skill/gear levels, we need a lot of data that involves PvP that is not at the highest tier, but data that includes PvP at all levels.

 

Just wanted to say I really appreciate such a lively discussion. Thanks VCRs for your initiative, work, and consideration.


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#16 flukeSG2

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 08:14 AM

Regarding PvP vs PvE: Whenever I see someone post that they had a PvP with another player to show how OP priests are, I am curious to know the gears that both players are using. I assume that in many cases both classes are Master Level 20 and have nearly maxed-out gears. Using data solely from high level and high gear battles to warrant class changes across the board can be damaging to game play for everyone. Maybe the +20 Osiris gear could be a major contributor to the imbalance?

 

Granted many players rushed to end-game content, we must remember that in order to increase the player base of this game we must be cautious not to disrupt game play for players who aren't maxed-out or who may not even have a desire to max-out (keeping in mind the difficulty of obtaining infinium to make +20 gear feasible).

 

This argument seems, at least to me, not to be between PvP and PvE, but more along the lines of "p2w" vs f2p. It appears that some people refuse to spend money on this game until they see some consistent improvements, and that is totally understandable. For those who continue to support Ro2, I think they may deserve some advantages since they are making the game possible for others (barring any serious imbalance issues like Priests being stupid-good in PvP).

 

However, before we can honestly say that Priests are overpowered in PvP enough to warrant changes that affect all skill/gear levels, we need a lot of data that involves PvP that is not at the highest tier, but data that includes PvP at all levels.

 

Just wanted to say I really appreciate such a lively discussion. Thanks VCRs for your initiative, work, and consideration.

 

You may check with Oti about it, however, we exchanged gear information and my gear far exceeded her gear in terms of runeholes being punched and runes placed in them.  You might also refer to my character as P2W (even if I dont win xD).  Oti has better costumes than I do, only when she removed them I was able to beat her once.

 

Honestly, I knew when the rangers were too OP, I never tried to deny it when we had that insane DoT from Poison Arrow and Multishot DoT as well.  Surely, you folks as priests can see how OP you are currently.


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#17 kimsera

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 09:06 AM

 

Honestly, I knew when the rangers were too OP, I never tried to deny it when we had that insane DoT from Poison Arrow and Multishot DoT as well.  Surely, you folks as priests can see how OP you are currently.

 

 

...You need to take in account that back when Rangers were OP, the ratios of priest skills still weren't up to par to AoV. I personally remember tossing 600-900hp renos when people had like 20k hp. I'm pretty sure other classes weren't updated to meet the standard of that re-haul, then or now. That said, yes, Priests are OP at the moment when you compare them to other classes, but those classes aren't at their full potential yet. And if they have a gap closer, and hit/dodge get fixed, those other classes all have skills that can one-shot their opponents. Lame, I know, but keep in mind that Priests do not have that. If you want to understand why Priests are superior in PvP atm, read that text-block I wrote up there during my hangover. :P

 

I remember from your past posts that hit/dodge is only up for consideration at this moment because they do not have a concrete idea of when it gets fixed, but what is stopping them from implementing all these VCR changes after the fix?


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#18 flukeSG2

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 09:55 AM

...You need to take in account that back when Rangers were OP, the ratios of priest skills still weren't up to par to AoV. I personally remember tossing 600-900hp renos when people had like 20k hp. I'm pretty sure other classes weren't updated to meet the standard of that re-haul, then or now. That said, yes, Priests are OP at the moment when you compare them to other classes, but those classes aren't at their full potential yet. And if they have a gap closer, and hit/dodge get fixed, those other classes all have skills that can one-shot their opponents. Lame, I know, but keep in mind that Priests do not have that. If you want to understand why Priests are superior in PvP atm, read that text-block I wrote up there during my hangover. :P

 

I remember from your past posts that hit/dodge is only up for consideration at this moment because they do not have a concrete idea of when it gets fixed, but what is stopping them from implementing all these VCR changes after the fix?

 

It's magic classes as a whole that are OP at the moment, not only priests.  Magic class DoT's are extremely high right now.  Tie that together with DoT heals and magic classes are nearly unstoppable, this goes for SM, Priest, Sort (not sure about Wiz, don't play against many of those).

 

The hit/dodge is a complex issue and no matter how we feel about it, apparently it's not going to be fixed any time soon.  My interpretation of this whole VCR deal is, for us to "patch" the hit/dodge problem by having us fix class issues and make suggestions and tweaks.  To take that a step further, for most classes, everyone is asking for more hit and less dodge.  Keep that in mind when we talk about how OP priests are right now, imagine if they fixed it so you did hit more and dodge less.

 

Also, as you pointed out when rangers were OP, the other classes were under powered, that is correct.  However from that stand point as a ranger I can see that the other classes when they were finally buffed/boosted to AoV levels, they were buffed past the ranger class.  Now you might ask how I know this, well it's easy.  I fight the same mobs day in and day out.  During the whole OP Ranger fiasco, I fought the guardians in the woe map, my attacks since then have maintained their levels with only slight increases as I gained more stats.  So the Ranger class has remained stagnant, while the other classes were buffed past us.  The same thing that happened to use in regards to our over powered DoT's needs to be looked at and applied to other classes accordingly.  Some classes need scaled back and some need a slight boost.  We all have to work together to do this and I'm just asking the Priest players to recognize the issues.


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#19 138130526004516927

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 09:58 AM

You might also refer to my character as P2W (even if I dont win xD).

 

I didn't mean to be rude, I used quotes in an attempt to avoid labeling (failed). But I suppose P2P (Pay to Play) is more polite?

 

Why does money have the uncanny power to make any situation awkward?


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#20 7517130609154355683

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 10:59 AM

The answer to an OP class is NOT to make other classes OP to match, it's to nerf the OP-ness of the class.

 

 


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#21 BuRn00

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 12:13 PM

We all have to work together to do this and I'm just asking the Priest players to recognize the issues.

 

+1
 


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#22 138130526004516927

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 05:48 PM

Just wanted to say:

 

Priest's DoT is OP = Fact.

 

DoT Nerf Suggested By The VCRs <= Reasonable.

 

30 Second Cool Down On Judex = Puppy In The Rain >= Fact.


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#23 flukeSG2

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 09:04 PM

Just wanted to say:

 

Priest's DoT is OP = Fact.

 

DoT Nerf Suggested By The VCRs <= Reasonable.

 

30 Second Cool Down On Judex = Puppy In The Rain >= Fact.

 

Your use of >= is confusing.  Try using "=" or "=/="

 

DoT Nerf Suggested By The VCRs <= Reasonable.  This means "less than reasonable"?

 

30 Second Cool Down On Judex = Puppy In The Rain >= Fact.  This means "greater than fact"?


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#24 138130526004516927

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 11:09 PM

Your use of >= is confusing.  Try using "=" or "=/="

 

DoT Nerf Suggested By The VCRs <= Reasonable.  This means "less than reasonable"?

 

30 Second Cool Down On Judex = Puppy In The Rain >= Fact.  This means "greater than fact"?

 

Greater than or equal to fact, yes.


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#25 PandeeChio

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 11:28 PM

+1 for DoT rebalance

Even with dot nerf they still do good damage

Lvl 1 dots now = 390% skill damage thats worth of RoG x3 over time

Level 5 Dots = 574% skill damage
Now thats RoG damage every 4 second
Rebalance lvl 1 DoT = 345% skill damage.
Thats one lvl 1 HL each second and worth of 2-3 RoG over time still

Rebalanced dot = 529% skill damage

Thats still rog each 4 sec.

Just pointing out this should be the way of priest dot adoramus > credo > oratio in terms of dmg made.

You want to lure? 3/3 judex on mob group then tab and credo the others until judec usable again.

But of the Aqua benedicta being party/raid skill. Would you make it straight 15% to everyone close to you or make it less or gain more the players are close to you (max 15%) just curious >:3?
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