201 replies to this topic

[Helium]

Here is the battlefield average contribution by job over the last year:

Character Job Name	Average Battlefield Contribution
Defiler	46445
Druid	44975
Warlord	43240
Tempest	41868
Protector	40126
Mystic	39527
Radiant	39100
Commander	34947
Ranger	34927
Forsaker	34029
Assassin	29623
Dominator	28094
Berserker	25415
Shadow Runner	20267
Elementalist	19522
Avenger	18530
Battle Magician	6598
Soul Hunter	6260
Shaman	5682
Hunter	5558
Warrior	5486
Templar	5404
Defender	4981
Rogue	4740

[Jabrody]

poor avengers, getting no love.

[exilehunter]

that chart only gives a narrow perception of the game. 

consider this - Most defilers at end game have been playing for over 4 years. they are normally experienced players who have top notch gear. (theres also the typical mall hoe who just clubs people with 'money' rather than skill)

 

Druids only became fashionable last 2 years? (i've lost track of time with these updates) simply due to OP skills that went unchecked for a long time. prior that, there were no serious druids.

similar with WL.

 

tempest are the only class to not suffer any serious changes this whole S2. easy to play. easy to kill people while hiding behind walls.

 

i am surprised with saker and mystic's position. thought it would be higher but there arent that many old mystic/saker players still here i guess.

 

 

my recommendation would be to look closer at specific dedicated/cashed up players who make up the majority of matches and remove them from the stats and then analyse the data. my gut feeling is that it will change a fair bit.

 

[Viole]

my recommendation would be to look closer at specific dedicated/cashed up players who make up the majority of matches and remove them from the stats and then analyse the data. my gut feeling is that it will change a fair bit.

 

I resent that statement! There were 5 serious druids before the changes, don't you forget that!

 

It probably becomes a more caster curved table, less favorable to druids and melee, ijs. 

 

The problem with measuring contribution only is that well... majority of the WLs even pre-hush change were just suicidal for some reason, save for a few~ And of course taking damage and dying does grant contribution as well!

I'm not particularly surprised at the bottom six though, considering I only know of one capped avenger, two capped domis and two capped eles (one that proactively job changes) that actively BG and even then they're not THAT active.

 

But yeah, you're right at there being a lot of variables involved as well, especially when you consider the average player and the classes they tend to gear towards, then of course you have to factor in leavers and d/cs if they're not a variable in this data (I'm assuming that is the case). 

[exilehunter]

sorry ditty. my memory of who was who and what gets hazy with this game. 

 

but yes, casters will always cap 1st with aoes in BF before melee. the only melee to get good contribution are the bulky ones who get it from receiving damage.

[Sandyman]

if you look at the BF Contribution list you must think there must be something wrong with the Avenger Class 

 

so why we talk about Commy/Protector first?

 

i think such Information are only like a single Part from the whole Picture. we try to look at.

 

BF Contri. is ofc. a Factor but  won`t tell you which Class are most Played or you most see at the BF

 

Avenger was great at the BF when the Traps had no expiration Date. And when the Pet was not stunable /nerfed 

 

its atm more a PvE Class regarding Boss debuffer or LW - Totem destroyer.

 

anyway not ALL People pick and start lvling a Class in regards how much BF Contri. i can achieve.

 

If i can feel like an active, helpful or even needed part at the Party i don`t care much about Contri.

 

that would include taunting after Sins with a Protector or canceling Totems like only Avenger can do that - but getting zero Contri for it.

 

Personal i think Player need more stimulation to enter a BF besides from BF Contribution  for a NPC Vendor.

 

I think we need more Mobs at the BF who drops nice Stuff or when you Defend / Tricker a Flag that should give nice Lant or other Instant Rewards

Instant Rewards are the Keyword.

 

than i don`t care much about DMG/Healing depending BF Contribution.

 

BUT have a Reason to join each time, even when my Ally don`t win.

 

 

 

[DarkJackal]

Started Req in 2009, Prot is definitely my fav class. But I also enjoy pvp.
I haven't played really since 2012 and just started again. Unfortunately there's quite a bit less players and servers then I remember. But anyway. I'm excited to hear protector/commander is gonna get some changes.

 

 

Speaking as a lower 69 prot.

- I think a reflect/counter sounds awesome.
Maybe a range attack reflect buff, to reflect any hits you take from the front? Would be nice in those times where each team is sitting across from each other shooting back and forth, or when your chasing someone who's still shooting you.

- I would agree a protector doesn't need a party heal, but a single heal and the restoration are fine I believe. It's nice to be a bit supportive with a single target at least.

- I remember when rush was a defender skill as well, it would be nice to have that back. It's always a pain running after people jumping away but still shooting you. But then again being a tank, you might not really need to do that. Being slow might be one of the weaknesses I suppose.

- I think physical blessing and fighting will could be better off being something different. They seem kinda useless. The hp buff sounded nice.

- Magic resist on passive or buff?

In pvp I dunno if i'm just super outdated gear-wise. But I die so easily as a tank. I got seamless set +10ish. Everyone at most is same lvl as me, 69 in FoC? But I take 2-3k hits often. My gear is old and not fully enchanted and stuff, but I wouldn't think 3k defense and 40-60% resistance would still take so much damage?

 

I'm a bit confused about defense though. I read there's a damage cap at 80% And thats 2700 defense, but someone ingame said 3600?

[wildscar]

i like the idea that every class should have some strength and weakness. There should be some sort of cycle where a race could have advantage over another race and weakness against other race. like commanders can have better resistance to damage from druid but  weak against rangers. rangers don't get much damage from commander but get more damage from druid. There should be some sort of resistance against different races like we have between PBs.

 

Also i have been playing commander for very long time, and i don't think there should be any nerf to either hush or AM cuz with the recent change to boost every casters healing power which makes it difficult to kill even with long hush.Mystics are impossible to kill if they have their healing totem out before we hush them and their healing totem lasts longer than hush. In party with healer or protector it will be impossible to win if we cant stop their heals. Also, casters usually launch AoE's before commander can hush them so hush doesn't really make much difference and it helps commander to do his job which is to break enemy formation. Even radiants have 14 sec hush so i don't see any point to nerf face strike too.

 

 

[Dyshana]

In all the changes, consider that commie is aoe with the same strenght of prot... so prot now are pretty useless. They are slow to level/quest and commie can do everything a prot does... so remember it when you change the skills.

[wildscar]

lvl90 protectors are pretty much immortal or pretty hard to kill. With 3 kinds of good heals+best defense+perfect block rate+Restraint Rescission +Broken Morale they are unkillable but they have low damage. which is good for a protector.

[wildscar]

that chart only gives a narrow perception of the game. 

consider this - Most defilers at end game have been playing for over 4 years. they are normally experienced players who have top notch gear. (theres also the typical mall hoe who just clubs people with 'money' rather than skill)

 

Druids only became fashionable last 2 years? (i've lost track of time with these updates) simply due to OP skills that went unchecked for a long time. prior that, there were no serious druids.

similar with WL.

 

tempest are the only class to not suffer any serious changes this whole S2. easy to play. easy to kill people while hiding behind walls.

 

i am surprised with saker and mystic's position. thought it would be higher but there arent that many old mystic/saker players still here i guess.

 

 

my recommendation would be to look closer at specific dedicated/cashed up players who make up the majority of matches and remove them from the stats and then analyse the data. my gut feeling is that it will change a fair bit.

instead of looking at contribution we should also look at the number of kills Vs death of the races as well

[W1lliam]

Hi everyone.

 

Quick post here to add my two cents.

I have to precise I'm a melee char player.

 

Could it be taken into consideration that tank currently has a party buff that, if maxed, adds 2200 def, that is to say 2/3rd of the cap defense.

(while there is no resistance equivalent... ahem...)

 

Rhetoric question now : considering the fact that all the casters have heals and that all said heals were boosted, do you think it is wise to keep in game a buff that makes them invincible regarding to melee players ?

 

I let you do the maths to know how much bonus an aoe magic DPS (supposedly more vulnerable to melees) can get with : tank buff - rad buff - def totem - druid buff if you have an elf who's not selfish in your team. I understand a tank has to be... Well, a tank, but does it mean it has to make everyone invincible for regular melee players ?

 

In 1v1 with equal stuff, mystics, tempests, rads, defis, rads with a tank buff cannot be killed anymore by melee (except sins) since we cannot hurt them for more than 1k, they outheal our damage and still have stuns, sleeps, instant heals crowd controls and still hit 2.2k on cap res.

 

To people who might complain that in 3v3 foc commies and WL still do pretty well I'll tell to watch our scores during regular big battles 30v30 to see how "well" we can do when we can harm no one because of this particular buff.

 

I'll finish by saying that a lot of people don't read the forum at all, even regular players so I'd suggest to the staff to take the temperature directly on the battlefields, that might help.

So before you mess up another class like you did with WL, Alteris, Helium, any other member of the staff, I send you an invitation, take a +30 melee char (a real melee who has to eat all the aoes of the world in the face, plus some sins, angry zerks and WLs, not a ranger or a SR) and come play with us in FoC or union to see how it is to get beaten by a mystic with tank buff. And by play I mean... For more than a week and when people are actually logged in.

(hint : you'll realize quickly that the contribution table you posted earlier has no meaning at all since our job is to be meat packs to help other +30 casters to get their 65 kills per battle )

 

We'll be glad to help you ingame with any question you might have during battles if we see you. Don't hesitate to log in and chat with us during PvP matches.

 

Have a good night folks.

 

Will

Edited by W1lliam, 12 April 2014 - 06:53 PM.

[Dyshana]

take a +30 melee char 

 

The skill balance should be done for all the players, not only for +30

[DarkJackal]

The skill balance should be done for all the players, not only for +30

 

I agree. I think skills should be worked on based on chars without +d/enchanted gear. Once you get good gear maxed and stuff your supposed to pwn.

 

 

 

I didn't know all casters had heals. I think only templars/radiants should have heals, and the 2 for protector.

[Cleffy]

You should know Alteris and Helium don't play nor enjoy this game, which is why they are so bad at developing content for it.
The most unbalanced thing in this game is the cash shop. This is followed by unavoidable instant cast 100% success rate stuns that primarily affect melee. This in turn diminishes the overall usage of melee characters until they made overbearing clamor. Now that Overbearing Clamor was over nerfed, we will once again see a huge drop in melee due to the stuns in the game.

Edited by Cleffy, 12 April 2014 - 11:04 PM.

[Justtank]

The skill balance should be done for all the players, not only for +30

 

Well as he mentioned, in that example, even +30 melee toons will be useless. So how do you suggest we balance it for those not geared equal?

[RadiantHelper]

If you are comparing +30 casters and +30 melee toons dmg you might want to remember that sin zerk wl all can do over 2k on cap just like casters except that for a caster to do 2k on cap they need to sacrifice hp for int while zerk has full con and still op dmg also want to mention that a commie with full 85 con and con jewels and trinity sword can do 1.8k on cap while having 30k hp capped defense capped resists alone no buffs. While any caster for that much on cap will have about 20k hp since they will need int and -_- for defense...this is in a 1v1 situation. as for in a party consider both sides have rads, who will die faster a toon with op block defense stun immunity and runs like he is speed hacking with op hp or the caster who if he gets soccer kicked is instant dead lol... End of the day commie needs nerf, slight, but nerfed. And anyone who says otherwise just wants to run around with an op toon

[Sayuz]

Commander is a line breaker. Once he charges to the targets he lost already 1/3 of his hp because of aoe damage. Usually he just fs a healer and come back for heals or hp regen and than he goes back.

[zombi3]

Let's face it the people that do play these classes dont want anything to be nerfed, even if the skills are overpowered, no matter what happens the dev team cannot make everyone happy, someone IS going to be upset with the changes, but the point of it is to balance the game, i can give some input playing as a commie and playing vs commies. Commander class is pretty overpowered, with tons of mall points, but then again so is any class same with protector, in pvp it takes 3-4 people to take down a full +30 protector and all these people who saying commander is meant to dominate 1vs1 if that were the case they wouldnt have as many AOE skills as they do now, they are meant for fighting multiple enemies not 1 vs 1. every class has it's weaknesses it depends on how you build/ how you play anyways here's my opinions on skill changes/balancing.

 

Starting with Protector class..

• Sacred Hand: Should only healer the user of the skill.
• Lesser Party Heal: should be a heal over time only.
• Taunts: should be in Protector Skill tree or at least just taunting Cry.
• Taunt Skill Hostility should be increased by 30% to ensure this is main tank in raids.(including Low Blow)
• Below Restraint Recision there should be a skill to Remove DoTs (only works on protector)
• Aegis of Protection: Should only buff Protector
• Spiritual Intensification should only buff protector
• HP Buff: I agree with others who said the class should have an HP buff however it should be only a slight HP increase (1% per level even or a static number)
• Immunity: Will be Immune to any poison effects for a short time.
• Deflect:(new skill) a skill to reduce all damage recieved by a set %

         (The % decrase would be factored in after all defense / resist is calculated, the reason for this skill is to make protectors the easiest class for healers to heal, making it the best class to tank bosses this skill will calculate for skills and Melee Attacks but will last for a very short time and have a very long cooldown. The % decreased would go up 1 % per level of skill). The reason behind Making most of this classes skills self targeting is because protector is a tank not support, this class also needs more attack skills.

 

Commander class..

• One Handed Weapon Mastery: Damage Increased as well as it's DNA
• Two Handed Weapon Mastery: Add this to give the players a choice, as well as a stun for 2 Handed Weapon and more skills for them as well.
• Chain Of Restraint: should last 2 - 5 seconds longer
• Promise Of Victory: should increase Evasion & Accuracy Equally
• Rush: DNA should be 1 second per Level not 2
• Beam Slash: Cooldown time - 3 seconds
• Chain Slash(AoE): Damage should be increased(Onslaught is far superior to this and it's a lower level skill)
• Moonlight Slash/Boomerang Of Sword Aura/Chain Slash(AoE): MP cost decrease by 20% & Increase Damage by 15%
• Adamant Mind: Duration should be decreased by 10 seconds(so it lasts 30 seconds with DNA this should be a skill that is meant for a short period of time only,)
• Face Strike: - 5 Seconds it's far too long
• Uplifting Cry fine as it is

          Some may not like this, but the reasoning behind this is that this class is supposed to be an offensive class not a defensive, and wether you think so or not Adamant Mind is pretty over powered, and can be kept on almost permanently, this class should should be emphasized more on Damaging skills not defensive/Immunity skills.

Edited by zombi3, 13 April 2014 - 10:14 AM.

[Sayuz]

Let's face it the people that do play these classes dont want anything to be nerfed, even if the skills are overpowered, no matter what happens the dev team cannot make everyone happy, someone IS going to be upset with the changes, but the point of it is to balance the game, i can give some input playing as a commie and playing vs commies. Commander class is pretty overpowered, with tons of mall points, but then again so is any class same with protector, in pvp it takes 3-4 people to take down a full +30 protector and all these people who saying commander is meant to dominate 1vs1 if that were the case they wouldnt have as many AOE skills as they do now, they are meant for fighting multiple enemies not 1 vs 1. every class has it's weaknesses it depends on how you build/ how you play anyways here's my opinions on skill changes/balancing.

Starting with Protector class..

• Sacred Hand: Should only healer the user of the skill.
• Lesser Party Heal: should be a heal over time only.
• Taunts: should be in Protector Skill tree or at least just taunting Cry.
• Taunt Skill Hostility should be increased by 30% to ensure this is main tank in raids.(including Low Blow)
• Below Restraint Recision there should be a skill to Remove DoTs (only works on protector)
• Aegis of Protection: Should only buff Protector
• Spiritual Intensification should only buff protector
• HP Buff: I agree with others who said the class should have an HP buff however it should be only a slight HP increase (1% per level even or a static number)
• Immunity: Will be Immune to any poison effects for a short time.
• Deflect:(new skill) a skill to reduce all damage recieved by a set %

(The % decrase would be factored in after all defense / resist is calculated, the reason for this skill is to make protectors the easiest class for healers to heal, making it the best class to tank bosses this skill will calculate for skills and Melee Attacks but will last for a very short time and have a very long cooldown. The % decreased would go up 1 % per level of skill). The reason behind Making most of this classes skills self targeting is because protector is a tank not support, this class also needs more attack skills.

Commander class..

• One Handed Weapon Mastery: Damage Increased as well as it's DNA
• Two Handed Weapon Mastery: Add this to give the players a choice, as well as a stun for 2 Handed Weapon and more skills for them as well.
• Chain Of Restraint: should last 2 - 5 seconds longer
• Promise Of Victory: should increase Evasion & Accuracy Equally
• Rush: DNA should be 1 second per Level not 2
• Beam Slash: Cooldown time - 3 seconds
• Chain Slash(AoE): Damage should be increased(Onslaught is far superior to this and it's a lower level skill)
• Moonlight Slash/Boomerang Of Sword Aura/Chain Slash(AoE): MP cost decrease by 20% & Increase Damage by 15%
• Adamant Mind: Duration should be decreased by 10 seconds(so it lasts 30 seconds with DNA this should be a skill that is meant for a short period of time only,)
• Face Strike: - 5 Seconds it's far too long
• Uplifting Cry fine as it is

Some may not like this, but the reasoning behind this is that this class is supposed to be an offensive class not a defensive, and wether you think so or not Adamant Mind is pretty over powered, and can be kept on almost permanently, this class should should be emphasized more on Damaging skills not defensive/Immunity skills.

Hey so what I understood is thatt you want to promote a protector to a "protect himself and -_- the others" lol
Just loke being an OP meat shield that nobody would care to attack in pvp... no damage no heal np defense buffs and with a counter attack skill and damage reduction. Why on earth would somebody attack such a player in pvp? Lol cant kill, hard to die and if you attack you take damage XD

[Sayuz]

And if you read carefully the background story of turans it says that turans for being weak compared to other damage races became adept healers to survive.
With respect to your ideas but I totally disagree with the ideas you presented here. If they change to that there aren't going to be tanks in the game. Why being a tank just to tank raids? Even on AoS a tank is not needed and can't keep aggro, lol.

[zombi3]

Hey so what I understood is thatt you want to promote a protector to a "protect himself and the others" lol
Just loke being an OP meat shield that nobody would care to attack in pvp... no damage no heal np defense buffs and with a counter attack skill and damage reduction. Why on earth would somebody attack such a player in pvp? Lol cant kill, hard to die and if you attack you take damage XD

 

yes, and no i promote a protector protecting others, by keeping aggro of tough monsters, that is the roll of a tank isnt it? i dont promote a protector healing for more than a radiant does, nor promote that he can give everyone such a large defensive buff. and as for pvp i think we both know nobody cares to attack protectors as it is, like i said i see some prots it takes 3-4 people to take one down. and the deflection skill isnt meant as a REFLECT skill where like berzerker/druid it'll send damage back to attacker, but instead this skill would more absorb the damage making it a softer attack on the protector, and i said it would only work in PvE not pvp so in reality pvp would be the same, nothing would change except the fact that you cant buff allies in pvp, you cant heal allies for insanely overpowered numbers but that is what a radiant is for, for the defense buffs, Heals and support.

edit: apologies forgot to label the deflect as pve only 

Edited by zombi3, 13 April 2014 - 11:36 AM.

[Sayuz]

yes, and no i promote a protector protecting others, by keeping aggro of tough monsters, that is the roll of a tank isnt it? i dont promote a protector healing for more than a radiant does, nor promote that he can give everyone such a large defensive buff. and as for pvp i think we both know nobody cares to attack protectors as it is, like i said i see some prots it takes 3-4 people to take one down. and the deflection skill isnt meant as a REFLECT skill where like berzerker/druid it'll send damage back to attacker, but instead this skill would more absorb the damage making it a softer attack on the protector, and i said it would only work in PvE not pvp so in reality pvp would be the same, nothing would change except the fact that you cant buff allies in pvp, you cant heal allies for insanely overpowered numbers but that is what a radiant is for, for the defense buffs, Heals and support.
edit: apologies forgot to label the deflect as pve only

Tell me one thing, who are the protectors that heal more than healers?

[AngelicPretty]

if there is a refelect it should be melee based. as a tank is mostly facing melee for grind party/raids.

hmm Block allready is op  do they really need a reflect?

 

[Sayuz]

About the pvp side you mentioned. People dont bother killing meat shields with tons of hp and 100% block rate. They just ignore because they know such tank cant kill, heal or do anything, they are dead weight. 90% of tanks dont know how to play as tanks and think exactly what you are saying that a protector job is only to taunt and block damage.
If you experience high end game you know that no class depend on a protector to farm, raid or do anything.
So, in my opinion, your view and suggestions are mistaken.