Anyone for Pegasus? - Page 8 - ROSE Community Chat - WarpPortal Community Forums

Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Anyone for Pegasus?


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
296 replies to this topic

#176 SpawN9999

SpawN9999

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 229 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 01 May 2014 - 01:59 PM

class buffs should be 900 seconds so they can overlap weaker cleric buffs. This would help charm builds with class party buffs and make it easier to cast them in game arena modes.


  • 0

#177 Leonis

Leonis

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Retired
  • 4096 posts
  • Playing:Metal Assault
  • Server:US Server 1

Posted 01 May 2014 - 02:01 PM

class buffs should be 900 seconds so they can overlap weaker cleric buffs. This would help charm builds with class party buffs and make it easier to cast them in game arena modes.

An interesting suggestion. :) That will be considered as well.


  • 0

#178 MidnightSmurf

MidnightSmurf

    Artisan Representative

  • Members
  • 1424 posts
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Arua

Posted 01 May 2014 - 02:21 PM

What if we give the class buffs higher % flat buff while the cleric has a significantly higher # nr as they spent far more on Charm stats and gears.


I'll put it differently. Give classes higher % and no +#. The Cleric then has the 10% and a + # like it has now on the live server. With the coming update it looks to me as the +# will be lowered. Think I might have confused you with the words 'significantly higher' when I meant that they still have it.

So in every aspect, no matter the level, Cleric buffs will remain equally powerful as with the current servers or lower.


Let's now look at my Level 1 Visitor I can level to 200 within 24h, care to make a bet? :p_love:


  • 1

#179 Leonis

Leonis

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Retired
  • 4096 posts
  • Playing:Metal Assault
  • Server:US Server 1

Posted 01 May 2014 - 02:43 PM

Okay MidnightSmurf, let's see some examples just to help clarify any confusion.

 

What do you have in mind or suggesting, when it comes to class and cleric buff rates? :)

 

Class: x% + y#
Cleric: x% + y#

? :)


  • 0

#180 Feuer

Feuer

    They pay me to post

  • Members
  • 10958 posts
  • Twitter:@LovatianOwl
  • LocationCaves of Owlverick
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Le' Forumz

Posted 01 May 2014 - 06:38 PM

Class: 15% + 21

Cleric: 10% + 50

 

As max level base referances. :P

 

I think what smurf wants is

 

Class: 15%

Cleric: 10% + 25

 

However the +25 being influenced by both CHA + INT on a cleric can bolster that so heres a spread on it.

 

Spoiler
 
So as you can see, little teeny tiny changes in those static numbers end up making a huge difference. 
They only stats you ever see go above a 3k, is HP, MP, Def, M Def.
So all a cleric needs to be completely equal to a 15% buff is 10% + 150. That 150 is not hard to achieve with this current method.
 
That's why I state a small, +20-25 is a must, or else clerics even having smaller %, will still have an easy method to outdo classes. Just my input ^^,

Edited by Feuer, 01 May 2014 - 06:54 PM.

  • 0

#181 Phish

Phish

    Bourgeois & Champion Representative

  • Members
  • 3564 posts
  • LocationU.S.A. New York
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 01 May 2014 - 09:57 PM

Champion

The 'Axe Champion' was actually missing some effects, like the other skill trees have for various skills. Most Axe skills were just damage, nothing to support the design of the tree or a build. Critical down, accuracy down, are some of the methods of status affliction to assist with their offensive strength design and overcome one of their major design weaknesses.

  1. What's good about the changes?

Most skills become more useful overall.

 

  1. What's bad about the changes?

Skills have been over buffed excessively. 

  1. What do you suggest should have been done as a change?

I'll go into more detail on here. Maybe the Axe  Champion was the least used of the three subclasses but it was by no means a bad or weak class. A few skills could have used a slight boost, but these changes go overboard on that by speeding up casting time as well as improving or giving skills that had no status effects a major secondary effect. 

 

Personally I don't think the skills needed an increase in speed at all, except maybe Axe storm (second job aoe) because that was a slow casting skill that had no secondary effect. Weapon Launcher, a ranged stun should by no means be sped up; it wasn't exactly slow to begin.

 

Weapon Toss, Overhead Attack and Champion Hit all received a boost in debuff value which I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing as these values were quite weak previously. However maybe they shouldn't receive as much of an increase and Weapon Toss and Overhead Attack should settle at 20/30/40/50/60 instead.

 

Champion Hit being a lower duration skill with a slightly longer cooldown works, but the value is quite high when accounting for everything, and maybe it should not be increased so much. (Or increase the cooldown of the attack itself more) The huge crit down on a skill wouldn't be so overbearing should it have a 20 second cooldown for example. 

 

As for Champion Strike.An offensive skill that heals the user is unique, but for a skill with 280% skill power, 8 second cooldown, a sped up animation and heals 100% of the damage dealt coming from a class with among the highest critical rating and critical damage.... It's easy to see how powerful this has become. 

 

Personally I'd rather see Blood Attack available for all Champion Weapons rather than just axes, but give it a reasonable skill power and cooldown if it's combined with 100% healing.

 

 

Final Strike has become powerful. It was already useful as a brute force damage skill has become even more so with the extra bleeding effect and faster casting speed. I'd almost want to increase the cooldown a little more in combination with these but... I can't say for sure. 

 

Axe Wrath having and increased casting speed and strong burn effect is a little much considering this is largely a single target damage dealing class, yet it's aoe's are on par with the it's multi target crowd clearing brother the spear champ. Since damage over time skills don't stack it basically nullifies the burn effect from the first job aoe Axe Storm. Not really sure about this, maybe it should have a shorter duration since Axes shouldn't be a very strong multi target class. 

 

 

All in all some of the changes to the axe champ are cool, just tone the values on the new things being change. Also if possible re introduce blood attack as a mutual skill for the champion class. Otherwise, make Champion Strike heal a much smaller amount (maybe 30%).

 

Also. I believe the succes rate on PvP Weapon Launcher should be lowered from 70% to 50%. I know I was the one to suggest this several months ago on behalf that other classes had stuns which were 70-100% success. But as far as all pvp specific skills, this one seems to be a highly important one due to it being a secondary stun you don't have access to on the regular skill, as well as having relatively high success. 

 

For example The Gun Bourgeois skill Zulie stun has a success rate of 50% success, and pvp zulie stun has a success rate of 70%. A small difference in success for 2 skill points. On the other hand Weapon Launcher has no secondary effect while PvP Weapon Launcher has a 70% stun success. 

 

I think the difference in regular zulie stun and pvp zulie stun is weak too however.

 

 

The 'Sword Champion', was showing too much consistency in its ability. One of those being, the assured chance of silencing a target without resistances to it. For that reason, the chance was reduced to 80%, from 100%. Not much more to say regarding that.

  1. What's good about the change?

I don't think the change was necessary.

  1. What's bad about the change?

It makes combat more luck based. If the skill was too overpowered then if anything the duration of the mute should be decreased by say 1 second, rather than make luck determine whether the enemy 'lives or dies'. 

  1. What do you suggest should have been done as a change?

Nothing. Leave the skill as it was prior, or decrease mute by 1 second while leaving the success rate the same.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't want to get involved with the morals of Cleric Buffs but I don't think just weakening the secondary effect of all of them will ultimately be the answer.


Edited by Phish, 01 May 2014 - 10:09 PM.

  • 0

#182 Feuer

Feuer

    They pay me to post

  • Members
  • 10958 posts
  • Twitter:@LovatianOwl
  • LocationCaves of Owlverick
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Le' Forumz

Posted 01 May 2014 - 10:25 PM

Statistically Phish I agree on most points.

 

Try to remember though that the crit down on Axe though only lasts 5 seconds on pega, having a 20 second cooldown ends up making the crit relatively useless as well as making the skill not able to be use frequently. 

Here's a breakdown on the CD list for attacks

Overhead Trounce: 30 seconds

Weapon Launcher & Axe Wrath: 20 seconds

Weapon Toss & Axe Storm & Final Strike: 15 seconds

This leaves only 4 attacks that can be used withing an 8 second CD. 

[Note it takes more then 8 seconds even with the Cast increase to cast those 4 attacks in legitimate combat]

So taking one of those 4, and making it another 20 sec CD is hindering it so much more then it looks if you're only looking at it from 1 skill point of view.

 

Personally, I'd rather it be 5 sec duration, 7-8sec CD, increase the % value to make it more standard, and reduce the static value to a starting base 50 @ lvl 5.

 

This class was already so vastly limited by the lack of effective status downs, sluggish cast times -which is where 90% of your damage comes from, casting- and long long CD lists. Any increase in CD, or cast times, or neglect on increasing status down utility, is hindering this type of class. Just my point of view.

 

 

 

All in all some of the changes to the axe champ are cool, just tone the values on the new things being change. Also if possible re introduce blood attack as a mutual skill for the champion class. Otherwise, make Champion Strike heal a much smaller amount (maybe 30%).

 

 

 

This part though, this kinda make me wtf for a minute. I don't understand the logic of [It should be all champ skill, if not reduce it] Like? Why? How does it being accessible for all champs change weather or not it should be effective for 1 of them? This -i'm just being honest- seems more biased, then reasonable. Atleast in the way you chose to word it. 


Edited by Feuer, 01 May 2014 - 10:31 PM.

  • 0

#183 MidnightSmurf

MidnightSmurf

    Artisan Representative

  • Members
  • 1424 posts
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Arua

Posted 02 May 2014 - 02:09 AM

Normal server. Using a Cleric with max charm+int.

C = Cleric buff
S = Soldier buff

Cleric Defence Buff 10% +652
Soldier Durability Assist Buff 19%

C 8128 def = 9593
S 8128 def = 9672

C 5223 def = 6262
S 5223 def = 6215

 

Cleric HP Buff 10% +1304
Soldier Staminal Assist 15%

C 27144 hp = 31163
S 27144 hp = 31216

C 17130 hp = 19878
S 17130 hp = 19700


The idea is that if a character is building for alot of HP, the hp buff with the flat % will be higher then the Clerics. If a character has a low amount of hp then the #nr from a Cleric will benefit more than the difference of 10% and 19%

As this is a suggestion I wouldn't really recommend doing it so only max charm+int buffs would beat the class buffs but it's an example to illustrate what I have in mind. I read Feuer post and maybe it's a good idea to add a very small amount of +# on class buffs but then we would have to keep it very small indeed in order not to push fighting classes into charm too much just cause they wanna have the OPTION of supporting their team. Give a proper incentive to get the supportive skills, forcing them to get charm wont accomplish that. I'll continue thinking in the lines of flat % myself.

If you'd like a suggestion across the board, every class and buff, I can arrange some examples and post them as well. I'd also want to experiment with different amounts of charm+int on the cleric. Also see how we could make a small #nr work without making players get a huge amount of charm for this sake alone. I'd rather see players get charm for the debuffs and stat buff as it currently is working. Reason why I don't wanna do this without knowing if you understood me and if you think it's a good idea is cause I have a tough time playing with imaginary numbers. Especially since the Pegasus server is up with different numbers as well wich are only suggested numbers. If it is of interest I'll spend a few hours on it never the less. Maybe I can even get some help from a certain Feuer if I ask nicely^^ Even if we don't agree 100% on the matter ;) You already tried to explain what I meant so see no reason why we don't put our heads together if they decide it's interesting. I'd like to see a pointing finger.

With this flat % buff I can see more specific builds for different purposes as it pays off a bit more if you have a class buffs and builds to enhance it. Still the option of cleric buffs will not be bad if you want a class with more diveristy in their stats. The flat % is not limited to 15% after all, it can be 97% and 11% or 16.7% depending on what seems to be more balanced.
 


  • 0

#184 MidnightSmurf

MidnightSmurf

    Artisan Representative

  • Members
  • 1424 posts
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Arua

Posted 02 May 2014 - 02:43 AM

Champion

The 'Axe Champion' was actually missing some effects, like the other skill trees have for various skills. Most Axe skills were just damage, nothing to support the design of the tree or a build. Critical down, accuracy down, are some of the methods of status affliction to assist with their offensive strength design and overcome one of their major design weaknesses.

  1. What's good about the changes?
    The axe champ is getting a boost in comparison to the other two weapon types

    The normal Berserk's immunity lowered to 50%

    Decreased casting speed on many skills

     
  2. What's bad about the changes?
    Skills has been buffed over excessively and too many of them
     
  3. What do you suggest should have been done as a change?
    Remove the 'self-healing' on Champion Strike and implement the old skill Blood Attack for the champion in general

    Remove the bleed from Final Strike
    Keep the old cast speed on Final Strike but increase the skill damage to and ending of 350% +265

    Increased casting speed on Axe Wrath and Axe Storm is fine but I'd like to see them swaping casting speed first and then lowered just ever so slightly. It makes more sense to me that it takes longer time for a skill that will deal a burning effect over time to have a longer charging time. Maybe they have the same atm but it doesn't see so to me when I try. Even so, that's my suggestion

    Decrease the Critical down from the suggested 150 on Champion Hit to 50, still an increase. They have the highest Crit in the game already, without putting an effort in.

    Decrease the ms down on Weapon Toss to an ending of 50 rather then 80, still an increase

    Decrease the dodge down on Overhead Attack to an ending of 50, still an increase. They are not meant to keep hitting as they hit so freakin' hard.

    Keep the 100% immunity on Enraged Berserk

The 'Sword Champion', was showing too much consistency in its ability. One of those being, the assured chance of silencing a target without resistances to it. For that reason, the chance was reduced to 80%, from 100%. Not much more to say regarding that.

  1. What's good about the change?
    The normal Berserk's immunity being lowered to 50%
     
  2. What's bad about the change?
    The mute % being lowered on Soul Wreck
     
  3. What do you suggest should have been done as a change?
    Cleric have now got a 50% mute resistance. Leave the 100% be. (Sidenote: Sword Champ is my least played class, still think it's a bad change)

    Keep the 100% immunity on Enraged Berserk

Everything written in blue is me, I just found it easier to quote.


Edited by MidnightSmurf, 02 May 2014 - 02:47 AM.

  • 0

#185 iMatt

iMatt

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1539 posts
  • LocationMunich, Bavaria
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 02 May 2014 - 04:10 AM

so here a little feedback from Pegasus:

 

 

So, we've got some test changes on Pegasus up right now, for anyone who wishes to come and check them out.

 

These were changes put in to works prior to the Class Representatives motion was being carried out, so perhaps the candidates can use it as an opportunity to help offer focused feedback with the changes.

 

Pegasus Patch Notes

[spoiler]

Game Arena

  • Reduced the group contribution value for kills. What was happening was kills were overshadowing other participation factors and hurting the teamwork encouragement and efforts vs rewards.

This means dumb AoE gets again badly favoured in relation to single target.

  • Organized the Scoreboard to display by default, more pertinent data that affected point gains and player participation.

 

Weapon Balance
Reviewing some of the cases of Katars, they are still hitting pretty hard. With their attack speed so potentially high, I need to add some counterbalance to it. Rather than take it out on them through skill balances, I don't want to make it seem like the skills are less valuable than some of the others, so I'm taking it directly to the weapon class itself.

  • Reduced Katar Accuracy base by 10%
  • Reduced Katar Attack Power base by 10%

Nerfing katar raider on this way might be a good idea - I just think its way overreacting - IF you nerf cleric buffs as listed raiders get nerfed anyways more than other classes.

I have tested the damage output of katar raider with this nerf and it ends up that you are unable to kill other fighters with that nerfed weapon since you additionally lose a lot of damage from the nerfed cleric buffs.

The nerf would be OK if the buffs wouldn't get touched. In my opinion the nerf of just  the attackpower would be way better since katar raider have no accuracy passive.

Solution: Wait if the cleric buff nerfs fix the huge damageoutput of katar raiders.

 

Soldier

Champion

 

I am not experienced enaugh to really give feedback on champs - all I can say is that -50% is way to hard on berserk and buffing Axe is good in my opinion.

 

Berserk

  • Stun & Sleep resistance reduced to 50%, from 100% (perfect immunity was more powerful than anticipated)

Hawker
Critical Focus (Formerly "Bow Focus")

  • Critical Focus can now be cast as a party effect and remains stack-able with other critical buffs.

Awesome - we will see how this works in Arena Games.

 

 

Muse
The reduction to the influential values of buffs, offsets a bit of the Charm bonus impact that was previously not well included or anticipated when considering the full scope of impact from player build. Rather than scale back the effects of Charm or Primary Stats from a class and equally affect all skills, we've focused solely on the skills that are considered to be only useful from the Cleric Source. This offset, depending on builds, should better equalize and put class buffs at a competitive rate to Clerics.

Wallop Charm/Chant

  • Stat influential base Attack Power bonus reduced to 2/4/6/8/10, from 5/10/15/20/25

Precision Charm/Chant

  • Stat influential base Accuracy bonus reduced to 3/6/9/12/15, from 5/10/15/20/25

Cleric
Battle Charm/Chant

  • Stat influential base Attack Speed bonus reduced to 0.5%/1.0%/1.5%/2.0%/2.5%, from 1.5%/3%/4.5%/6%/7.5%

Hustle Charm/Chant

  • Stat influential base Movement Speed bonus reduced to 3/6/9/12/15, from 10/20/30/40/50

Critical Charm/Chant

  • Stat influential base Critical bonus reduced to 3/6/9/12/15, from 5/10/15/20/25

Evasive Charm/Chant

  • Stat influential base Dodge bonus reduced to 3/6/9/12/15, from 5/10/15/20/25

The key change in this patch - Clericbuffnerfs. In my opinion nerfing clericbuffs is the wrong way to make classbuffs more attractive for fighting classes. Lets face it - fighters are egoistic. Yes partybuffs are stronger, but people won't get them nor consider getting Charmbuffsets as long as they don't benefit from it themselves. As soon as they change back to their fightingset the buffs get downscaled again so only their group benefit from it.

Solution: Change Classbuff scaling from mainly Charm influenced to equally influenced by Charm AND their main stat - it would make Classbuffs way more interesing for players than the high charm scaling.

The current accident liveserver patch allowed us to test the buffchanges on live servers very well. Conclusion: Nerfing the offensive buffs totally inbalances GameArena Games again - the dealt damage is in no relation to what clerics can outheal now - in the worst case no one dies and we are again at the point where we have been 5 months ago - dumb AoE wars where no one dies. As example in the last CD I focused on my bowscout a gun bourg that usually dies within 5-6 seconds from my burst damage - now he was able to tank me for nearly 20 seconds.

I gnore the fact that you nerf the dodge cleric buff but not the defense one - this again favours all classes over hawkers since those are the only klasses whom use dodge as main defense stat (and yes dodge mages SUCK so I say only hawker by intention).

 

 

 

Bug Fixes

 

Bugfixes are always good so nothing to criticize here.

 

Everyone please keep in mind, these are changes only on Pegasus and are still subject to change before they are planned for a live server release. We're looking for your feedback, so we appreciate feedback based on experience, more than observation. Thank you.

 

Summary: The cleric buffs shouldn't be nerfed - nerf is in my opinion always the wrong way to make game mechanics attractive. Instead of nerfing you should buff the class bufffs. Changing the scaling would solve the problem way better than than nerfing clericbuffs.

Overall I think the clericbuffnerf should not come on the live servers. The berserk nerf is way too hard in my eyes.

 


Edited by matthiashornauer, 02 May 2014 - 04:37 AM.

  • 0

#186 ChampPower

ChampPower

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 2070 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 02 May 2014 - 06:01 AM

Let's me guess this straight. I believe that the DEV Team has a blur vision of about the game future. Do you want to promote the cleric or individual class buff? If you want to promote the cleric, the way you are doing it is all wrong. You simply cannot promote the cleric while weaken it or changing its contribution. If you want promote the individual class buff, then why did you remove the effect of buff sets few months ago? Individual class buff need the buff set, without the buff set, the stat will simply reverse as soon as we change the EQ, and we cannot change the EQ during the battle, too.

 

GET THE PRIORITY STRAIGHT. This will be similar to the condition, which people, who wanted to divide the server, now want to re-joint it. The entire idea is just dumb.


Edited by ChampPower, 02 May 2014 - 06:02 AM.

  • 0

#187 Feuer

Feuer

    They pay me to post

  • Members
  • 10958 posts
  • Twitter:@LovatianOwl
  • LocationCaves of Owlverick
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Le' Forumz

Posted 02 May 2014 - 06:32 AM

No one wanted to split the servers, they wanted more channels. The split came form a population issue and cross channel duplication hacking. Why don't you get YOUR facts straight before going on a rant again. 


Edited by Feuer, 02 May 2014 - 06:32 AM.

  • 0

#188 ChampPower

ChampPower

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 2070 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 02 May 2014 - 07:00 AM

No one wanted to split the servers, they wanted more channels. The split came form a population issue and cross channel duplication hacking. Why don't you get YOUR facts straight before going on a rant again. 

You should not comment If you do not know the conversation prior to the split. I was there when it happen. The official explanation for the split is to fix the duplication hack, but did it stop the exploit? In addition, way before the split, there was a moderate amount of players wanted to create a new server because they could not cope with the economy of Leonis. 

 

I SAY IT AGAIN. You should not comment on what you do not know.


Edited by ChampPower, 02 May 2014 - 07:03 AM.

  • 0

#189 Phish

Phish

    Bourgeois & Champion Representative

  • Members
  • 3564 posts
  • LocationU.S.A. New York
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 02 May 2014 - 07:23 AM

Statistically Phish I agree on most points.

 

Try to remember though that the crit down on Axe though only lasts 5 seconds on pega, having a 20 second cooldown ends up making the crit relatively useless as well as making the skill not able to be use frequently. 

Here's a breakdown on the CD list for attacks

Overhead Trounce: 30 seconds

Weapon Launcher & Axe Wrath: 20 seconds

Weapon Toss & Axe Storm & Final Strike: 15 seconds

This leaves only 4 attacks that can be used withing an 8 second CD. 

[Note it takes more then 8 seconds even with the Cast increase to cast those 4 attacks in legitimate combat]

So taking one of those 4, and making it another 20 sec CD is hindering it so much more then it looks if you're only looking at it from 1 skill point of view.

 

Personally, I'd rather it be 5 sec duration, 7-8sec CD, increase the % value to make it more standard, and reduce the static value to a starting base 50 @ lvl 5.

 

This class was already so vastly limited by the lack of effective status downs, sluggish cast times -which is where 90% of your damage comes from, casting- and long long CD lists. Any increase in CD, or cast times, or neglect on increasing status down utility, is hindering this type of class. Just my point of view.

 

 
 

 

 

This part though, this kinda make me wtf for a minute. I don't understand the logic of [It should be all champ skill, if not reduce it] Like? Why? How does it being accessible for all champs change weather or not it should be effective for 1 of them? This -i'm just being honest- seems more biased, then reasonable. Atleast in the way you chose to word it. 

 

That would work too. 

 

 

 

 

This part though, this kinda make me wtf for a minute. I don't understand the logic of [It should be all champ skill, if not reduce it] Like? Why? How does it being accessible for all champs change weather or not it should be effective for 1 of them? This -i'm just being honest- seems more biased, then reasonable. Atleast in the way you chose to word it. 

 

What I mean is return the effect of Champion Strike (HP Absorption) as Blood Attack which would be used by all Champ weapons. If adding new skills isn't an option then keep it as Champion Strike but reduce is the amount healed.


  • 0

#190 Feuer

Feuer

    They pay me to post

  • Members
  • 10958 posts
  • Twitter:@LovatianOwl
  • LocationCaves of Owlverick
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Le' Forumz

Posted 02 May 2014 - 08:06 AM

But should the effect only be reduced if its not for all champs, thatss the part I don't understand. 

Also I understand the logic from a 30% due to champs AP being so much higher, however Bloody Assault is 50%, and PvP is 100%. Sure their AP is lower, but with the massive amount of Def Pierce, and Def downs, they can hit just as hard as a champ, I've seen some duals pulling off 4-6k Heals which is proportionally much much higher HP % for them, then 100% for a champ would be.

 

Example:

100% PvP Bloody Assault

Dual Raider HP Buff is roughly~ -gear dependant-

16k. 5k Heal is approximately 33% of it's HP total

100% Champion Strike

Champs HP cap is approximately 22k

22k. 5k Heal is approximately 25% of it's heath.

30% Champion Strike

2k heal = 9% hp heal

Those are both configured off a 100% absorb. then a 30%

Having it reduced to 30% significantly makes it well... nothing special. 

 

@ChampPower

I was there for that, a small population was PROPOSING many many methods on how to fix the economy inflation. Only 1 of those many ideas was a new server. However, it also worked in conjunction with the cross channel duplications. Yes, removal of those channels did fix the exploit. The other duplication hacks/exploits are using different techniques, not cross channel ones. 


Edited by Feuer, 02 May 2014 - 08:15 AM.

  • 0

#191 Phish

Phish

    Bourgeois & Champion Representative

  • Members
  • 3564 posts
  • LocationU.S.A. New York
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 02 May 2014 - 08:46 AM

Hm didn't realize how strong the pvp bloody assault was. 

 

Regular Bloody Assault is:

 

270% skill power

10 second cooldown

Heals 50% of damage dealt

 

 

PvP Bloody Assault is:

 

270% skill power

10 second cooldown

Heals 100% of damage dealt

 

 

The Mace Knight skill Absorptive Assault is:

 

120% skill power

8 second cooldown

Heals 100% of damage dealt

 

 

The Axe Champion skill Champion Strike is:

 

280% Skill power

8 second cooldown

Heals 100% of damage dealt. 

 

 

The skills might be similar in power and effect but Champions (particularly Axes) do get higher attack power as well as critical and critical damage. Not to mention Berserk so their damage output with skills is potentially higher, thus potentially healing them more. The cooldown is slightly less for Champion Strike and Bloody Assault, although Raiders need to invest into the pvp version of the skill for the 100% healing effect where Champions can just make use of the regular job skill. 

 

I guess since the skill had no status effect original and was still useful due to to the brute force power, that adding a strong secondary effect seems like overdoing it. Maybe 50% Healing would suffice as it essentially matches the regular job skill Bloody Assault.


  • 1

#192 Feuer

Feuer

    They pay me to post

  • Members
  • 10958 posts
  • Twitter:@LovatianOwl
  • LocationCaves of Owlverick
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Le' Forumz

Posted 02 May 2014 - 09:29 AM

I'd be fine with that if 2 modifications were made.

 

1 there be an optional 100% PvP version.

2 The Aoe + Single target lanes were seperated, currently I HATE spending SP on AoE's just to get the Stun + Final Strike. I see the same for Swords, Spear was already separated. No only though is spear separate but the AoE's aren't even in a lane, you just pick first > second, no pre-req's outside of that.

 

So if it was within reason to seperate the Range+AoE lane from the Single Target lane then add a PvP version of Champion strike sure~ Sounds perfectly fair. 

 

I do want to point out though that

 

Axe:

AP / Crit / Crit Damage

Dual:

AP / Def Pierce / Def Down

 

They're very very similar in damage from a base point, and also the PvP Bloody + Final Strike [Pega] are sooo close in % output that it's not a huge difference.

There is a note though between the Champ 280% and the Dual 270%. The Duals has a static heal value, meaning they heal a small portion, even if they miss. The Axe does not, if you miss, you get 0 heal. Also, that Dual static heal value, is affected by CHA + Dex. The Champs Heal is not affected by CHA or STR -only the damage portion is, but same can be said for Duals dex > ap-

 

So In the end statistically, they're potentially exactly the same, just via different mechanics. 


Edited by Feuer, 02 May 2014 - 09:32 AM.

  • 0

#193 FireJin

FireJin

    Raider Representative

  • Members
  • 249 posts
  • LocationCanada
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Draconis

Posted 02 May 2014 - 10:52 AM

100% PvP Bloody Assault

Dual Raider HP Buff is roughly~ -gear dependant-

16k. 5k Heal is approximately 33% of it's HP total

I got no idea who you would hit to make 5k dmg, Most dual raiders now are doing pure Glor for accu/dodge or else doing for full chiva we will be dead pretty fast. And with no big charm for def down. They would not hit 5k. The class they could hit for 5k dmg is mage. But this 5k dmg will happen after we def down them, Axe alone do not need def down to hit 5k because you have 100% crit damage as well. Then think about if enemy is on Def down and axe champ on berserk. Then axe will be getting over 5k.

 

And to dual  to have pvp bloody assault and pvp circle break. They will be lacking of SP already for that. But Champ doesn't

 

100% Champion Strike

Champs HP cap is approximately 22k

22k. 5k Heal is approximately 25% of it's heath.

I got no idea how can you have 22k hp. Champ full chiva with full buff would have about 25k Plus. 3 type of my champ with full buff are all over 27k HP with Chiva and AP gear.

 

30% Champion Strike

2k heal = 9% hp heal

Those are both configured off a 100% absorb. then a 30%

Having it reduced to 30% significantly makes it well... nothing special.

 

It is already special that champ with 7k def, 27k hp, 2.7k ap (My 2h 3.3k ap, Axe 2.8k ap and Spear 2.9k AP)(On Cleric's full buff and own Str buff) would have this heal. If this going to be add. it should be add to three type of champs. Not just an axe.


Edited by FireJin, 02 May 2014 - 11:02 AM.

  • 0

#194 UziDude

UziDude

    Bourgeois Representative

  • Members
  • 243 posts
  • LocationColorado Springs, Co. USA
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 02 May 2014 - 06:56 PM

Patched.  :D  So.....is the Leonis data on there yet?  Guess I'll go find out. ;)


  • 0

#195 IAfjiBa

IAfjiBa

    Cleric Representative/Community Member of the Month for June

  • Members
  • 1451 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 03 May 2014 - 12:31 AM

Downloading and Patching!  :p_idea:


  • 0

#196 pdfisher

pdfisher

    Champion Representative

  • Members
  • 5246 posts
  • LocationPennsylvania, in the heart of PA dutch country
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Leonis

Posted 03 May 2014 - 03:41 AM

I got no idea who you would hit to make 5k dmg, Most dual raiders now are doing pure Glor for accu/dodge or else doing for full chiva we will be dead pretty fast. And with no big charm for def down. They would not hit 5k. The class they could hit for 5k dmg is mage. But this 5k dmg will happen after we def down them, Axe alone do not need def down to hit 5k because you have 100% crit damage as well. Then think about if enemy is on Def down and axe champ on berserk. Then axe will be getting over 5k.

 

And to dual  to have pvp bloody assault and pvp circle break. They will be lacking of SP already for that. But Champ doesn't

 

I got no idea how can you have 22k hp. Champ full chiva with full buff would have about 25k Plus. 3 type of my champ with full buff are all over 27k HP with Chiva and AP gear.

 

 

It is already special that champ with 7k def, 27k hp, 2.7k ap (My 2h 3.3k ap, Axe 2.8k ap and Spear 2.9k AP)(On Cleric's full buff and own Str buff) would have this heal. If this going to be add. it should be add to three type of champs. Not just an axe.

 

Chiva won't give a champ the most HP. Reinforced with A7 however could, especially if it has hp substats.


  • 0

#197 FireJin

FireJin

    Raider Representative

  • Members
  • 249 posts
  • LocationCanada
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Draconis

Posted 03 May 2014 - 04:01 AM

Chiva won't give a champ the most HP. Reinforced with A7 however could, especially if it has hp substats.

 

Yep you are right tho, but I am jsut saying in general that most champs are doing chiva in term of PvP. So their hp and def would be around as I said with full buff.


Edited by FireJin, 03 May 2014 - 04:01 AM.

  • 0

#198 Feuer

Feuer

    They pay me to post

  • Members
  • 10958 posts
  • Twitter:@LovatianOwl
  • LocationCaves of Owlverick
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Le' Forumz

Posted 03 May 2014 - 06:06 AM

With buff* precisely why you cant use those numbers, you have to build skills from a BASE point, doing it off a buff, means you're doing it off a build, meaning your calculations + results will never average out, they'll constantly be tweaked over and over. Balance and Counter Balance are achieved from base / standards. Hence why I cant take your examples too far, if i did I'd be trying to figure out how to balance 1 skill between

all stat builds*all skill builds*all EQ builds

That, is too much, especially when you get the same result by just going at it from a base average that they all share in common.


  • 0

#199 KHAIDOH

KHAIDOH

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 113 posts
  • LocationOffice
  • Playing:ROSE Online
  • Server:Draconis and Leonis

Posted 03 May 2014 - 07:19 AM

Here's a mirror of the Pegasus client installer if the official site is acting a little slow (as it generally seems to be).from Genesis this might help....
 

 

Hi Guys.

 

Anyone can help me with this? I already downloaded and done the Installation of Pegasus client Installer. My problem is on patching, its stop to Version 82 and start receiving an Error when comes to this Downloading '33_39.HIM'. I already done the basic trouble shooting I know.

 

* Try another PC and laptop.

* UnInstall and ReInstall the Pegasus Installer.

* Try a high speed Internet connection.

 

I don't know what else to do, Please help :sob: .

Thanks in advance.


  • 0

#200 DestinyDeoxys

DestinyDeoxys

    Cleric Representative

  • Members
  • 1588 posts
  • Playing:ROSE Online

Posted 03 May 2014 - 03:37 PM

Remember the thread that I posted back in September? I pointed out that the CHA thing is making things unbalanced, the way you scale the CHA on certain items are too big and inconsistent. Given that the effect of buffs/heal from INT and CHA already have 1 : 3 ratio, you would still have this unfair scaling of INT and CHA, you only have 20INT highest as substat, how could you have 30CHA as substat?



Before you nerf the buffs so badly, would you consider the following CHA stat re-scaling?

Spoiler



Link to the original proposal of this:
http://forums.warppo...s/#entry1522236


Personally, I did not see anything wrong with my proposal, but there were bunch of people flame and name calling at me for nerfing their valuable CHA buff gear, which is not the case, the CHA buff gear will still be the best and worth it, just look at how people pay 4b extra from attraction ring to beautiful ring just for merely 5 extra CHA? None of the things that I listed will change the market value of these CHA buff items, yet they will just totally make the CHA route making things so overpowered.


  • 2




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users