219 replies to this topic

[flubsy]

If weaving/power weaving is a problem for many classes, just increase the cool down to 30 seconds like they did with the ninja burrow.  Or just disallow it in pvp like they did with ninja burrow/shadow walk.  And yes, I do agree that the secondary twin should be able to die as knocking them down causes some glitches in pvp and you will get hit by an  "invisible" twin randomly, I do not think the warp portal team can do that. So, I suggest first increasing the cool down of weaving/power weaving for twins to 30 seconds and see how it is, and if there still needs to be another nerf, disallow it in pvp/bsq, just like they did with paladin barricade and ninja burrow/shadow walk.  They will still have other block skills while fused.

 

While this might still be a small nerf for twins, the other possibility could be making the main twin being able to take dmg from the secondary twin would make it more fair as they cannot just charge in constantly without consequence with their secondary invincible twin.  I am not sure if this is possible.

 

I honestly do not see too many problems with summoner, but that might also be because there aren't very many that pvp.  The only nerf I can think of is the Dark Knight or decreasing the revenge or possibly doing some dmg scaling with their smart shot.  Possibly having Nation Fury go off of base instead of total or the more you pew, the less dmg you do.

 

Invokers heal/magnet isn't that big of a problem as much as their dps with element which might be the same thing that people have a problem with summoners.  If the scaling of chain combo/aas/pew pew affected element it probably wouldn't be a problem, but it doesn't scale down like the normal attack so it's a problem in pvp.  Increasing magnet cd doesn't matter too much if it's only by a second or two imo.

 

I suppose the main problem with Invokers/Summoners is their dps, if scaling affected their pew pew (elements included) it wouldn't be that big of a problem, but I am not sure what the warp portal staff can/cannot do.

 

Is it possible to know the full range that the staff can do to skills/classes/characters? So a better assessment of skill changes could be devised by the players?

 

TL;DR

 

twin: increase cd of power weave/weave to 30 seconds or get rid of it in bsq/pvp

         include dmg reflection when the secondary twin is attacked, the main twin also takes some dmg

 

summoner: nation fury nerf to base

                   nerf Dark Knight

 

invoker: increase cd of magnet

 

summoner/invoker: descaling of pew pew pew which includes the element dmg

 

What can the wp staff do to skills in the game?

Edited by flubsy, 02 June 2015 - 08:06 PM.

[sean718]

For those wondering why I say resist is overpowering.

 

Pay attention to the ice resistance and ice attack values and the damage dealt.

 

 

Increasing the ice resistance a bit now.

 

 

Further increasing it. Activated barrier to remove MATTK damage (which was 51 before 70% x spam reduction damage). Element damage is shown. Remember, 0 damage is not shown to have a value. No element damage is being incurred by me at this resistance stage with barrier activated to remove MATTK damage.

 

 

Let's climb higher. Barrier is not activated. I am taking no MATTK damage except for the occasional critical hits. No element damage is being taken.

 

 

Higher.

 

 

No damage is taken from element or from MATTK. Barrier not activated. Critical damage is nonexistent. I could have achieved higher resistances to display in all elements. But this is to demonstrate how resistance overpowers element attack.

 

I will say it again.

 

The problem is not the x spam or the element, the problem is the lack of players fulfilling criteria to compete against end game players who have invested their time as such.

 

Edited by sean718, 02 June 2015 - 10:52 PM.

[ohsnap]

this is the current standard if you want to be viable 

Edited by ohsnap, 02 June 2015 - 11:55 PM.

[Zimzang]

After seeing so many comments about these classes, i feel that people really need to know these classes better and i hope that you do not suggest a nerf for any skill just because you cant win over that class.

http://irowiki.org/~...010320011010231 (lvl 65 summoner)

http://irowiki.org/~...020330011010231 (lvl 65 summoner +300SP)

http://irowiki.org/~...010310011010351 (lvl 70 summoner)

http://irowiki.org/~...020330011010551 (lvl 70 summoner +300SP)

http://irowiki.org/~...010330011010551 (lvl 75 summoner)

http://irowiki.org/~...020330011010551 (lvl75 summoner +300SP)

 

If you have the time please take a look at the above links. They may not be the best skill builds but i have maxed every skills that has been deemed as OP. You can see that without the 300SPs, you practically cant add much skills at all. I really don't see why i have to be penalized just because i spent more time farming to make a more decent summoner.

Spirit counter attack at lvl 5 gives 65% chance to reflect 40% dmg. My invoker with a lvl 5 barbarian (74% chance to freeze) and i still miss more than half the time, i don't see how this skill is a problem.

xspam. Summoners smart shot isnt really smart at all. by just running around left and right and jumping about, you practically can avoid them. i dont see whats the problem is either

Nation fury - If the attacks from a summoner hurts you alot, its probably because he/she has stacked alot of ele atk and really have nothing to do with this skill (honestly speaking, i see people enchanting their gears to +20 almost every other day)

 

For invokers, regarding the magnet skill, i do not see much problem at all. with a mspd of 274, i am able to dash jump out of it. archer classes do this with ease. mages can blink out of it. savages can spin out of it or moonwalk out of it. twins can weave out of it. not sure bout the 2 warriors classes though.

but i do not mind a 3s increase in cd. Just stating that the magnet is not a game ender.

 

twins- i have never played this class before but i do know they have a huge skill tree and many prerequisite skills to add (same for summoner class). i believe they need a considerable amount of SPs? Even though i hate the amount of blocks they get and how they can use their dummy to take hits, one should never take out their anger on this class. imagine all the time spent to test out the skills, time them and to link them and make it into a combo. im pretty sure not any tom dick and harry can pull of this class.

 

To quote a fellow player who once said this on a another thread : Dragon Saga is a game which heavily focuses on grinding and farming and it shall stay that way.

 

I hope that the Vmods, mods, GMs understand that dragonkin classes have rather complex skill trees and require alot of SP. Please do not just nerf them for the amount of time spent to make such "OP" characters is no joke. For the other players, i hope you can go and explore these classes before going into forums saying ohh this class is so op or that skill is so op, nerf them!

 

Enjoy and happy farming 

 

Edited by Zimzang, 03 June 2015 - 03:07 AM.

[noxis]

the reasoning for an increase in magnet cooldown is not only to prevent spam.

 

it's to give those caught in it additional time for their skills to cool down before another magnet can be launched. not all classes can escape easily and not all skills will be successful in deterring the opponent, an increase in magnet cooldown will help alleviate stress on the occasions when a player has exhausted all of their skills while caught in magnet.

 

the 3 second additional time was not suggested without research. 

[Fliederduft78]

So, to sum this up and maybe get it in an easy .....let's call it...."pass on form" for Poppie. Keep in mind it is his job to pass it on to the production team (that team has actually to understand what the players want and why) and we don't need any mess up with this.  Let's say it like this, I'm a PVE  player and do only understand half of what you guys are saying. I know for sure Poppie is pure PVE too, cause he once told me. So he faces the same understanding "problems". Let's assume the production team actually did play this game at least once for themselves. May it be only for testing purposes. However they have to get the message Poppie is passing on to them ( I'm assuming including explaining the reasons etc )... and have to understand what we want to have changed and why.  

The past gave us a hard lesson on what happens when something is not understood at all, or not in the right way. There are multiple examples of things that went completely wrong. 

I'm about sure there is lots of good infos, explanations and reasons in this thread. You guys did very good on this. I can clearly see all the thoughts, calculations, testings you put into the subject - I only wish I could understand you guys a bit better.

However, in a very easy wording so far the following seems to be wanted (at least that is what I was able to understand):

 

- 3 sec cooldown increase magnet skill invoker  - good for pvp and no harm for pve 

- 5 sec cooldown increase each on  weave and power weave skill twin  - good for pvp and no harm for pve

 

Right?

 

 

Some people mentioned a "slight cooldown increase" for the twin fusion skill.

Opinions?

 

 

What about this:

 

Spirit counter attack at lvl 5 gives 65% chance to reflect 40% dmg

 

Is this the "bad" reflection skill so many mentioned to be "the death of many"?

Why is this skill that "bad" and how could the staff make it more fair? Is this skill used in PVE?

 

Nation fury

That skill name does pop up sometimes. What is wrong with it?

Do you guys have any opinions on that one? How would a change to it - if made -affect PVE?

 

 

invoker with a lvl 5 barbarian (74% chance to freeze)

 

This skill name does pup up in the thread a few times too. Is there anything wrong with this skill?

How would a change to it - if made-  affect this skill in PVE?

 

 

 

I actually got the part of the "godlike/not killable" twin. That it does the attacks and such but can't be hit, stunned and whatever more. I personally agree that this would need a change (at least stun etc possibility).

Sadly I assume this goes in the "client change needed" category and simply isn't possible right now. I assume that cause I think some re-programming of the class itself would be needed and as far as I know are all classes as such hardcoded (purely in the client). This is why I don't mention it in my sum up. The only reason btw, cause I actually understood what you guys were trying to get out regarding this skill.

This subject should be discussed again when the day has come the WP production team is finally able to do client changes. Same for the whole element system I guess.....just saying ...(in PVE point of view too).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Fliederduft78, 03 June 2015 - 04:19 AM.

[april21997]

 

Fix Skills ?

- Ninja - Hypnotizer sometimes it didnt hit enemy  ..

- Ninja - April fool i dont know if this skill must be fix but i realized april fool skill doesnt stack on element weapon .

sample 1. me[ninja] - using april fool on none element weapon user . her/his damage on me is only 1 critrate will be 2

sample 2. me[ninja] - using april fool on element weapon user her/his damage on me will remain on how many element attribute she/he have sample .

- Ninja -katar blocking - i didnt see my char blocked with this passive skill when im pvping with someone

 

 

Twin - The AoE of POWERFIST

i pvp a lot of twin but sometimes its kinda weird even im in long distance with twin i still get hitted and stun

 

Invoker - The AoE of BARBARIAN

like i said on powerfist

 

 

 

 

 

[Homurasan]

This topic isn't about any other class than Twin Fighters, Summoners and Invoker though.

[noxis]

What about this:

 

Spirit counter attack at lvl 5 gives 65% chance to reflect 40% dmg

 

 

your suggestion will instantly kill players who have multiple hitting skills. 

 

some things to remember:

 

spirit counter effect is applied to summons only not the summoner.

summons have virtually no defense/resistances. the damage they take is similar to mob damage.

spirit counter works on a per hit basis, this applies to multiple hitting skills.

this is not a skill meant for pve use.

 

a more reasonable suggestion based on editable values:

 

level 1: 10% chance to reflect 10% damage

level 5: 15% chance to reflect 10% damage

 

 

 

Twin - The AoE of POWERFIST

i pvp a lot of twin but sometimes its kinda weird even im in long distance with twin i still get hitted and stun

 

Invoker - The AoE of BARBARIAN

like i said on powerfist

 

client sided and dependent on the consistency of server=client communication of all parties involved. 

[Fliederduft78]

your suggestion will instantly kill players who have multiple hitting skills. 

 

some things to remember:

 

spirit counter effect is applied to summons only not the summoner.

summons have virtually no defense/resistances. the damage they take is similar to mob damage.

spirit counter works on a per hit basis, this applies to multiple hitting skills.

this is not a skill meant for pve use.

 

a more reasonable suggestion based on editable values:

 

level 1: 10% chance to reflect 10% damage

level 5: 15% chance to reflect 10% damage

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh sorry, I didn't mean to make any suggestions at all. Really sorry for this confusion. I just copied this :

"Spirit counter attack at lvl 5 gives 65% chance to reflect 40% dmg"

from someone out of this converstaion. Sorry for the confusion. I actually thought this was the accurate data the skill has right now/ comes with. So sorry....I really thought this is how the skill is right now. Like I said, pure PVE player here that does understand only half of what you are saying. Once again really sorry.

 

So what are the current "real" settings of the skill?

 

Is this the "bad" reflection skill so many mentioned to be "the death of many"?

 

Thanks for the explanation on how the skill works though. Greatly appreciated. I understood it perfectly fine.

Edited by Fliederduft78, 03 June 2015 - 08:39 AM.

[ohsnap]

After seeing so many comments about these classes, i feel that people really need to know these classes better and i hope that you do not suggest a nerf for any skill just because you cant win over that class.

http://irowiki.org/~...010320011010231 (lvl 65 summoner)

http://irowiki.org/~...020330011010231 (lvl 65 summoner +300SP)

http://irowiki.org/~...010310011010351 (lvl 70 summoner)

http://irowiki.org/~...020330011010551 (lvl 70 summoner +300SP)

http://irowiki.org/~...010330011010551 (lvl 75 summoner)

http://irowiki.org/~...020330011010551 (lvl75 summoner +300SP)

 

If you have the time please take a look at the above links. They may not be the best skill builds but i have maxed every skills that has been deemed as OP. You can see that without the 300SPs, you practically cant add much skills at all. I really don't see why i have to be penalized just because i spent more time farming to make a more decent summoner.

Spirit counter attack at lvl 5 gives 65% chance to reflect 40% dmg. My invoker with a lvl 5 barbarian (74% chance to freeze) and i still miss more than half the time, i don't see how this skill is a problem.

xspam. Summoners smart shot isnt really smart at all. by just running around left and right and jumping about, you practically can avoid them. i dont see whats the problem is either

Nation fury - If the attacks from a summoner hurts you alot, its probably because he/she has stacked alot of ele atk and really have nothing to do with this skill (honestly speaking, i see people enchanting their gears to +20 almost every other day)

 

For invokers, regarding the magnet skill, i do not see much problem at all. with a mspd of 274, i am able to dash jump out of it. archer classes do this with ease. mages can blink out of it. savages can spin out of it or moonwalk out of it. twins can weave out of it. not sure bout the 2 warriors classes though.

but i do not mind a 3s increase in cd. Just stating that the magnet is not a game ender.

 

twins- i have never played this class before but i do know they have a huge skill tree and many prerequisite skills to add (same for summoner class). i believe they need a considerable amount of SPs? Even though i hate the amount of blocks they get and how they can use their dummy to take hits, one should never take out their anger on this class. imagine all the time spent to test out the skills, time them and to link them and make it into a combo. im pretty sure not any tom dick and harry can pull of this class.

 

To quote a fellow player who once said this on a another thread : Dragon Saga is a game which heavily focuses on grinding and farming and it shall stay that way.

 

I hope that the Vmods, mods, GMs understand that dragonkin classes have rather complex skill trees and require alot of SP. Please do not just nerf them for the amount of time spent to make such "OP" characters is no joke. For the other players, i hope you can go and explore these classes before going into forums saying ohh this class is so op or that skill is so op, nerf them!

 

Enjoy and happy farming 

I don't see how SP is even a factor in balancing this class if you provide me with 300 more SP or heck max out all of my skills on say a ninja, sentinel, pally, overlord, etc. it won't be half as strong as a summoner. Problem is end game summoner, fighter and invoker is just so much better than all these other end game classes. Not to mention there were multiple times skill points were up for sale on the IM market.

[Coolsam]

Only thing Summoner and Dragonkin have as a fair argument is difficulty for new players. Just starting out blind both classes can scare a new player off. Yes it is a "God-tier" class but it isn't a bandwagon set of classes 80% of the playerbase can just hop on and master overnight. Some top skilled twins and summoners had tons of practice time from, and even before, class release.

 

The classes both have large skill trees with skills that are either not worth it, or messed up entirely so they're useless. Also their 2nd/3rd Job trees are nearly twice the size as some classes. Also building a mid-game Twin or Summoner might be way more expensive.

[Apocryphos]

 

For those wondering why I say resist is overpowering.

 

Pay attention to the ice resistance and ice attack values and the damage dealt.

 

-snip-

 

Increasing the ice resistance a bit now.

 

-snip-

 

 

Further increasing it. Activated barrier to remove MATTK damage (which was 51 before 70% x spam reduction damage). Element damage is shown. Remember, 0 damage is not shown to have a value. No element damage is being incurred by me at this resistance stage with barrier activated to remove MATTK damage.

 

-snip-

 

Let's climb higher. Barrier is not activated. I am taking no MATTK damage except for the occasional critical hits. No element damage is being taken.

 

-snip-

 

Higher.

 

-snip-

 

No damage is taken from element or from MATTK. Barrier not activated. Critical damage is nonexistent. I could have achieved higher resistances to display in all elements. But this is to demonstrate how resistance overpowers element attack. We've seen this already with agentmeow, the problem is there is no hardcap on resistance after a 20k(pretty close to 100%).I also think that the elemental weapon only deals elemental damage which is why high elemental resistance should shift the meta back to non-elemental weapon's such as protector of star's, I could be wrong the tests performed with agentmeow was quite awhile back.

 

I will say it again.

 

The problem is not the x spam or the element, the problem is the lack of players fulfilling criteria to compete against end game players who have invested their time as such.

The problem exist not only for x-spam but for everything, where elemental resistance overresist elemental attack. The lack of guarantee's is what ruins the game with RNG's this low its no wonder people who don't wanna waste there time quit the game, people grind for the solar/stella because they're guaranteed to get something. Yet the community filled with farmer's and butt hurt people don't want to allow 6* to be craftable to make end-game meta access-able through a fixed amount of grinding. The elemental card RNG is what turns most players away from the pvp side of the game tbh. 

 

 

 

this is the current standard if you want to be viable 

mfw.

My response are in bold and questionable are bold/italic.

Again if higher resistance was available to the masses with a guarantee and not an RNG,  invoker/summoner's tier level wouldn't be so high. they'd fall to the appropriate support class range.

Edited by Apocryphos, 03 June 2015 - 09:26 AM.

[Homurasan]

After seeing so many comments about these classes, i feel that people really need to know these classes better and i hope that you do not suggest a nerf for any skill just because you cant win over that class. [...]

 

I hope that the Vmods, mods, GMs understand that dragonkin classes have rather complex skill trees and require alot of SP. Please do not just nerf them for the amount of time spent to make such "OP" characters is no joke. For the other players, i hope you can go and explore these classes before going into forums saying ohh this class is so op or that skill is so op, nerf them!

 

Time-consuming or not, I can remember some PvP between Earth master and Overlord. The Earth master had switched to a +4 [Advanced] Dark soul gunstaff while the Overlord had reasonable stats and his +15-ish Zauharant weapon.

Yet the only thing the Overlord managed to do was trying to get close, get repelled by the kind of pink dome, hit by the Golgon, then combo'd to death by the Summoner who used Spell trap, Mega spike wave, Rolling stone, Earthquake and Rain of fire. And I mean it : from 100% to 0, while his opponent had no element damage at all with his Dark soul gunstaff (few damage also). Also he once was instagibbed by the Dark knight that the Earth master sweared not to use anymore as it was extremely powerful for a 'mere' summon.

 

No amount of time spent farming to build a character can justify such lack of balance. It would be as if saying that said character / race / nation of said game had to be OP because of the time during one had to practice in order to learn and play it well : it makes no sense whatsoever, and you then have no choice if you want to have a chance of winning since you'll most probably encounter such players who put time into it.

The worst is that in any game whose developers thought a little bit about general balance, characters / classes able to deal much damage and / or pull out pretty cool combos usually have a "high risk for high reward" playing style : one has to put themselve in a dangerous situation in order to unleash their full potential. A Summoner doesn't need to do so : they have ranged attacks, awesome locking skills that can easily be used in a combo, also summons to help them disrupt the opponent or take hits for them. This sounds like a "low risk for high reward" playing style, which is against any idea of balance.

 

 

PS : also it isn't about not being able to win in a PvP match. And I personnally think I have gathered enough information to maintain that some classes indeed need some kind of "balance improvements" as I like to call them.

[Coolsam]

 

 

The problem exist not only for x-spam but for everything, where elemental resistance overresist elemental attack. The lack of guarantee's is what ruins the game with RNG's this low its no wonder people who don't wanna waste there time quit the game, people grind for the solar/stella because they're guaranteed to get something. Yet the community filled with farmer's and butt hurt people don't want to allow 6* to be craftable to make end-game meta access-able through a fixed amount of grinding. The elemental card RNG is what turns most players away from the pvp side of the game tbh.

 

The guarantee is what would actually inspire more endgame PvP. If I was told; "Grind Fire Dungeon Hero Mode for X amount of time and you'll have everything you need for some 6* attack cards." I would be inspired to do it regardless of whether that time was hours, days or even a solid week. This was why solars/stellas are sought after. Get these hunches, do your F6's, buy your Sadonix, get your rings. If 6* cards had that sort of process anyone would be inspired to spam element dungeon.

 

But the community strangely prefers it to where you have to rely on a cluster of 1% or lower rolls for these requirements to access end-game meta. The only fixed guarantee is if you grinded a couple ten thousand gold and bought from a farmer who got lucky for you. Otherwise what would take player A days to get would take player B hours and player C weeks is the norm.

[noxis]

 

My response are in bold and questionable are bold/italic.

Again if higher resistance was available to the masses with a guarantee and not an RNG,  invoker/summoner's tier level wouldn't be so high. they'd fall to the appropriate support class range.

 

 

RNG exists to give the responsible parties the power to control sensitive item distribution.

 

implementing an exchange for 6* via socket exchange throws this out of the window as it can be asked for (and it will be) for everything. farmers will max out more quickly than others so it practically changes nothing. it would just expedite the process.

 

a better suggestion would be to raise the exchange rate for spiritual drops when turning them into basics and slightly increase drop rates for boxes to give out 6* cards.

 

i wouldn't prefer either of which to happen. drop rates were lowered a few years ago for a reason.

 

regarding element attack vs element resist. it's to inform the community who blindly oversee that x spam is a problem. that is simply not the case. reducing a priests element attack to that extent is already more than possible at end game. though the information is not complete since there are additional variables involved, it should still give players a sense of direction and reasoning outside of blaming x spam for their problems. 

 

skill factor in this game is what really separates the kids from the adults.

[sean718]

An exchange for 6* cards would be viable if the requirements were justified. I personally wouldn't mind it.

If the requirements were simply :

x12 4* cards = 1 5* card

And

X15 5* card = 1 6* card

Then I can see this working pretty well. It would still not be an easy feat but it would be a guarantee.

[Coolsam]

An exchange for 6* cards would be viable if the requirements were justified. I personally wouldn't mind it.

If the requirements were simply :

x12 4* cards = 1 5* card

And

X15 5* card = 1 6* card

Then I can see this working pretty well. It would still not be an easy feat but it would be a guarantee.

 

This is what would be reasonable. Anything involving 6*'s needs to retain the difficulty obtaining them. So that if you're gonna abuse it and max out faster, it'd still require a similar level of grind. The formular suggests 180 4* cards at most to obtain 1 6*. So it'd still cost an absurd number of basics like 6*'s tend to do which requires a ton of farming as 6*'s tend to require.

[Apocryphos]

The guarantee is what would actually inspire more endgame PvP. If I was told; "Grind Fire Dungeon Hero Mode for X amount of time and you'll have everything you need for some 6* attack cards." I would be inspired to do it regardless of whether that time was hours, days or even a solid week. This was why solars/stellas are sought after. Get these hunches, do your F6's, buy your Sadonix, get your rings. If 6* cards had that sort of process anyone would be inspired to spam element dungeon.

Which is exactly what this community needs more of ANYONE, not a specific someone who's willing to roll rng's 24/7 in a dungeon.

 

But the community strangely prefers it to where you have to rely on a cluster of 1% or lower rolls for these requirements to access end-game meta. The only fixed guarantee is if you grinded a couple ten thousand gold and bought from a farmer who got lucky for you. Otherwise what would take player A days to get would take player B hours and player C weeks is the norm.

Which is sad to see another online community that I thought was different just to be the same.

 

 

RNG exists to give the responsible parties the power to control sensitive item distribution.

Wut there is no game guard preventing any use of 3rd party program for multi-clienting for farming whatsoever.

implementing an exchange for 6* via socket exchange throws this out of the window as it can be asked for (and it will be) for everything. farmers will max out more quickly than others so it practically changes nothing. it would just expedite the process.

Yes but it would inspire others to farm it if there was a guarantee as well.

a better suggestion would be to raise the exchange rate for spiritual drops when turning them into basics and slightly increase drop rates for boxes to give out 6* cards.

I'd prefer the latter along with the a craftable option.

i wouldn't prefer either of which to happen. drop rates were lowered a few years ago for a reason.

The reasons are different now that PoS has been introduced resistance is what's needed to offset high frequency multihitting elemental hits.

regarding element attack vs element resist. it's to inform the community who blindly oversee that x spam is a problem. that is simply not the case. reducing a priests element attack to that extent is already more than possible at end game. though the information is not complete since there are additional variables involved, it should still give players a sense of direction and reasoning outside of blaming x spam for their problems. 

only possible if a player sacrifices his/her multi resistance or farms 24/7/365 for full 6*'s only to be recked by a couple of demolition. Again its not just x-spam that loses against elemental resistance its everything. because a hardcap does not exist. if this type of elemental resist was available to the masses invoker would have to rely on actual ingame skills to deal damage and act as an actual support class.

skill factor in this game is what really separates the kids from the adults.

Skill can only close a gear gap so far, at best maybe a 50% difference for classes not in discussion in this thread.

 

 

An exchange for 6* cards would be viable if the requirements were justified. I personally wouldn't mind it.

If the requirements were simply :

x12 4* cards = 1 5* card

And

X15 5* card = 1 6* card

Then I can see this working pretty well. It would still not be an easy feat but it would be a guarantee.

Finally some compromise, this I can support and maybe daily quests that are level based and guarantee a 4-5* of choice for the quest let say do X- Amount of  fire/ice/dark/nature runs, etc.

And I'd suggest re-adding the level limits level 40 leaders for element dungeon was far to spoiling.

Although I question the requirements because 6*'s require no money whatsoever they should be easier to obtain than 15* cerbs for sure.

Replies in bold.

If i were to rebalance x-spam I'd reduce the damage it gets from elements while introducing a resource syphon such as MP or awakening.

Edited by Apocryphos, 03 June 2015 - 11:12 AM.

[ohsnap]

RNGs and what not aside if the game has to make things easier and accessible for players who complain about not having 6*s maybe they just don't deserve it. If the people that actually man up, farm for them 24/7 and don't complain then hey they deserve it. If some ppl choose to shell out 100s of dollars to buy it off others then hey that's their decision they're short a few hundred dollars on their visa black cards. Don't get me started on the ppl that complain that they have school, work, or a life if you can't even spend an hour of your day to farm what you want rpgs are just not right for you and I know this cause I'm one of those ppl. 

[sean718]

Finally some compromise, this I can support and maybe daily quests that are level based and guarantee a 4-5* of choice for the quest let say do X- Amount of  fire/ice/dark/nature runs, etc.

 

 

No, for not so obvious reasons.

 

 

 only possible if a player sacrifices his/her multi resistance or farms 24/7/365 for full 6*'s only to be recked by a couple of demolition. Again its not just x-spam that loses against elemental resistance its everything. because a hardcap does not exist. if this type of elemental resist was available to the masses invoker would have to rely on actual ingame skills to deal damage and act as an actual support class.

 

 

 

Wrong on many levels. I would appreciate unbiased opinions, especially from those who actually use the class and not those who barely understand it's limitations. 

[THQAiza]

An exchange for 6* cards would be viable if the requirements were justified. I personally wouldn't mind it.

If the requirements were simply :

x12 4* cards = 1 5* card

And

X15 5* card = 1 6* card

Then I can see this working pretty well. It would still not be an easy feat but it would be a guarantee.

I don't mind this at all. +1

[Apocryphos]

 

RNGs and what not aside if the game has to make things easier and accessible for players who complain about not having 6*s maybe they just don't deserve it. If the people that actually man up, farm for them 24/7 and don't complain then hey they deserve it. If some ppl choose to shell out 100s of dollars to buy it off others then hey that's their decision they're short a few hundred dollars on their visa black cards. Don't get me started on the ppl that complain that they have school, work, or a life if you can't even spend an hour of your day to farm what you want rpgs are just not right for you and I know this cause I'm one of those ppl. 

Look around you the community comes from foreign old closed dragonica/saga, the game itself needs new players not hardcore players. The game's RNG ruins a newcomer's experience cause elitists that want to keep the endgame meta unbalanced.

 

No, for not so obvious reasons.

 

 

 

Wrong on many levels. I would appreciate unbiased opinions, especially from those who actually use the class and not those who barely understand it's limitations.

My bad i got salty Ignore the demolition jab's , the quest is to make the items easier to obtain its unjustified that the 6*'s should be harder to obtain than let's say something you pay for such as 15*'s cerberus Even then getting near 20k resist is questionable with 6*'s. especially with the behaviour of dual resists.

lul. so unbiased. asking for priest x spam nerf. destroyer can x spam stun linear and x spam everyone within a line two action shot killing everyone. they got 400% cd and it works with x spam too and they get 40% critical so easy. 

 

u must think ppl stoopid?

You can talk all you about my bias but this thread isn't about destroyer and not to mention destroyer can neither strafe nor home in on enemies. the 400% CD and 40% crit is justified because said class is a cannon class. tyvm.

[Tirbing]

One more time, leave summoners alone.

[noxis]

class bias is something that is unavoidable with suggestions. especially one of this magnitude when concerning skills.

 

hopefully it is apparent to everyone reading these posts.