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Making an actually challenging mvp


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#51 Sladeero

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 08:12 AM

Even if players use a cheat sheet, the boss could still be challenging if the AI is done right. Also, getting a party of players that each know what they're doing isn't easy. You're bound to come across a Leeroy Jenkins.


All valid points. I got a chuckle out of the Leroy Jenkins reference. :-)

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#52 Kadelia

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Posted 21 June 2015 - 10:54 AM

That's so Final Fantasy.

I like it.

 

ff 7 remake announced at E3 or something.

 

I'll probably play it. I play jRPGs afterall.


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#53 Talvis

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 07:25 PM

Well, if they make a legal autopot, it will only make mvping easier.


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#54 Nirvanna21

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 07:42 PM

Well, if they make a legal autopot, it will only make mvping easier.

 

All I hope is that they don't put delays when using slims. If they remove hitlocking I need fast slim spam to compensate. If they take my classes ability to solo current MVPs then they makes me bored. And boredom does not make an interesting game to play.


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#55 Talvis

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 09:27 AM

So, what I've gathered:

 

High hp

Multiple counters for skills so the mvp can't be kills simply by just spamming one major skill.

Map script events like Nyd or SS Bapho

Random variation of the monster so you can't know for sure until you enter the instance.

 

As far as the reward.  Have the reward be given via npc so all who participate have a equal chance to get loots.

 

Unfortunately RO's limited ai probably doesn't help.


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#56 Havenn

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 10:22 AM

make MVP with autopot


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#57 Necrohealiac

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 10:35 AM

oh shi---
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#58 ZeroTigress

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 03:17 PM

make MVP with autopot


Easy, have 50 Geographers continually spawn all around it.
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#59 Talvis

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 04:20 PM

Easy, have 50 Geographers continually spawn all around it.

 

just a couple with plant protocol so they can't be killed easily.


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#60 behemothjr

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Posted 30 June 2015 - 08:43 PM

So u want a challenge.  Beat A holy MVP with a baby AB.   Beat Satan morroc with a super novice.  NO god gears :(  no winning through cash to zenny or = lame.  Gears use ones that would have to reasonably obtained by someone who started on Sunday ;).  Good luck  that i want to see


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#61 Talvis

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 03:19 PM

Here's an idea that takes from Nyd and Oklinr, Every 5 or so minutes during the battle a random party member is teleported to a cage or some sort and in order to get them out you'll have to kill certain monsters that spawn.


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#62 lorenz1375

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Posted 12 July 2015 - 06:22 AM

wonder if this is feasable at the very least...

 

It starts with some npc calling for help all over the world bout an incoming disaster...

 

some entrance quest to do it and at the start of the instance you get to see an actual GM sprite laying down dying calling for help since he can not take down what's inside the instance alone.

 

you get to gather a huge party, if possible even more than one?, encounter mobs upon mobs of lethal demon monsters in a huge castle-like setup starting from it's gates (lots of guards?) enough to wear down the party, and after clearing all stages get to fight an actual god of the underworld or something similar. Fighting it will be an impossible feat without following a proper procedure like it recovering some huge percentage of it's HP for every certain time and be able to cast multiple Aoe Skills and fatal physical skills (something like an OP clashing spiral or even as far as something like TigerCannon) to prevent GTB, w/ mobs spawning for every certain time (normal flagged monsters that can cast deadly skills and support the boss) similar to OGH Amdarais and before i forget... can cast a friggin pneuma safetywall, dark blessing and a whole lot of resistance.

 

To kill it, involves a whole lot of kiting, bgems and the participation of that certain GM sprite npc, now fully recovered, that's able to damage the said boss a LOT like Chaos in Faceworm instance but is mobile like that of a mercenary and for better flashy action the npc's every attack effect is just like when a GM attacks a monster using Angra Mainyu, but must also be taken care of by the party's support since the npc can die as well.


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#63 Kadelia

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Posted 12 July 2015 - 06:48 AM

NO god gears :(  no winning through cash to zenny or = lame. 

most people who solo MVPs don't even adhere to those restrictions with their 3rd class characters


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#64 DeadIntern

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 01:13 AM

I always thought Culvert was one of the instances that promote party play. Although I noticed Kami and maybe several other people could solo the instance. Insane mode perhaps? 


Edited by DeadIntern, 13 July 2015 - 01:13 AM.

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#65 Talvis

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 02:44 AM

This underscores one of the main balance problems with RO, players being too over powered. It's hard making a MVP difficult if some classes can dish out insane damage in a short amount of time.
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#66 Necrohealiac

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 06:39 AM

culverts needs a couple people just to clear out the mobs. I'm not sure how feasible it is to actually kill the mobs AND click the pipes in time if you're running solo. as far as the mvp, ideally you want an actual tank for it in addition to the killer since it can dish out major damage.

I can see someone soloing the boss , but I'm not sure if it's possible to solo the entire instance. maybe a gene using the best gear available in game could do it. no fcp is basically an automatic fail for this instance.
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#67 Kadelia

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 06:47 AM

I think I did hard mode malangdo culvrrts as a duo or trio the one and only time I did it, and it was easy. 2 genes and maybe a bishop

Edited by Jaye, 13 July 2015 - 06:58 AM.

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#68 Necrohealiac

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 06:58 AM

yeah but do you think it's possible to solo? I'm thinking only a gene could pull it off (maybe).
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#69 Kadelia

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 07:00 AM

Gene is about as op in the mvping area as ranger is in the turn in area lol
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#70 Necrohealiac

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 07:10 AM

#notallgenes
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#71 Nirvanna21

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 12:23 PM

Pretty sure Kami solo'ed the culverts... but it may have been someone else?


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#72 Akupuff

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 01:50 PM

Hmm...I feel a truly Party-only challenging MVP is possible with just a few tweaks. But, I feel they need some kind of lore to feel complete. Don't throw a difficult mob just for the heck of it, give it a reason to be fought like that. Geffen Magic Tournament gave some cool alternatives, with high leveled bosses that have to be taken solo. Faceworm also introduced some neat mechanics. We also had some more mechanics to force a party with the Piamette fight. I'll throw some ideas I had. I won't include complicated lores as that would take some time :P

 

-=Solo MVP's=-

 

Trapped in a nightmare, the adventurer must take his inner fears!

Spoiler

-=Party MVP=-

 

The source of the nightmares across all adventurers has been found! It's time to take the demon on!

Spoiler

 

Loots and the like, well, the idea of each party member recieveing loot tokens from an NPC after the battle is a good one, that way, each player gets the chance of drops at the ends, as if each one killed their own MVP. 

 

Also, the idea of splitting the party can be applied to many instances so spice things up.  :p_smile:

 


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#73 Kadelia

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 01:54 PM

For inspiration think about say olkonir; its against your best interest to not bring a party, even if it didn't require a party to get in.
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#74 Talvis

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 03:16 PM

culverts needs a couple people just to clear out the mobs. I'm not sure how feasible it is to actually kill the mobs AND click the pipes in time if you're running solo. as far as the mvp, ideally you want an actual tank for it in addition to the killer since it can dish out major damage.

I can see someone soloing the boss , but I'm not sure if it's possible to solo the entire instance. maybe a gene using the best gear available in game could do it. no fcp is basically an automatic fail for this instance.

I think I did hard mode malangdo culvrrts as a duo or trio the one and only time I did it, and it was easy. 2 genes and maybe a bishop

Maldago would be quite hard to do solo in the first part.  Bare minimum would be 2 I would think; one to keep the mobs occupied and kill quickly and the other to find a safe corner to clean the pipe.

 

Hmm...I feel a truly Party-only challenging MVP is possible with just a few tweaks. But, I feel they need some kind of lore to feel complete. Don't throw a difficult mob just for the heck of it, give it a reason to be fought like that. Geffen Magic Tournament gave some cool alternatives, with high leveled bosses that have to be taken solo. Faceworm also introduced some neat mechanics. We also had some more mechanics to force a party with the Piamette fight. I'll throw some ideas I had. I won't include complicated lores as that would take some time :P

 

-=Solo MVP's=-

 

Trapped in a nightmare, the adventurer must take his inner fears!

Spoiler

-=Party MVP=-

 

The source of the nightmares across all adventurers has been found! It's time to take the demon on!

Spoiler

 

Loots and the like, well, the idea of each party member recieveing loot tokens from an NPC after the battle is a good one, that way, each player gets the chance of drops at the ends, as if each one killed their own MVP. 

 

Also, the idea of splitting the party can be applied to many instances so spice things up.  :p_smile:

I mainly made this thread  to get ideas from people on what would be needed to make a mvp actually challenging, developing the story around the mvp, etc. is a topic within itself.  Though, I suppose the two would be developed together.  You listed a lot of good ideas for the battle.  I'm not sure if the game could distinguish a proper maze for each person.

 

For inspiration think about say olkonir; its against your best interest to not bring a party, even if it didn't require a party to get in.

I will sadly probably never see Olkonir.  From what I know of it, there are a lot of features that could be factored in. 


Edited by Talvis, 13 July 2015 - 03:18 PM.

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#75 DestinyTalim

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 02:31 PM

1. good idea for a loot system

2.  That's one thing I would like to see, making it so you can't just solely rely one one skill.  That's why I had put low vit to minimize the effectiveness of AB or chance of changing to ghost property if gfist is used too much.  Crazy high flee to make it so a Ranger couldn't solely rely on AS (not 100% miss, though)

What are some other ways to achieve this?

 

Or just plain Ghost property period.


Biolabs mutant, 100m HP, all skills of all 12 Bio3/4 MVPs, form of creature changes on HP but is randomized, skills are not based on current form. Shifting stats of 1 vit (counter bomb), 300 luk (counter crit), 700 flee (counter normal hit) stat piercing debuffs so you're forced to bring multiple resistance gears, lv10 EQ with a random cast timer and that anti-token skill from SM (Hell's dignity? not sure)

 

I'm sure I can think of some more evil things, but I am all for something like this

 

Hell Power does that.


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