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Legitimized Autopot


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#51 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 05:44 PM

https://en.wikipedia..._liberalization


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#52 Kadelia

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 05:48 PM

Pots have always been bad game design to begin with. Nobody dies unless you one shot them or produce absurd DPS. Just add a 0.5 second cooldown to pot use or something, that way you don't have to compete with a machine.


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#53 Kadelia

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 05:50 PM

Also please do not compare drug legalization to legalizing cheating. Drugs shouldn't be illegal in the first place since they are victimless crimes and people should be able to hurt themselves if that's what they want. Crimes committed under the influence of drugs are already crimes.

 

Banning autopot is like banning steroids in baseball. It ruins the game so it needs to be taken out if at all possible, and saying let everyone do it because you can't catch the ones who are doing it is a major cop out.


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#54 Legendario2300

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 05:52 PM

Autopot legalized or not i will stay as legit player, im pretty sure i will enjoy more dying than depend of this stupid autopot.


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#55 cerebrum09

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 05:52 PM

no thanks

if this was legalized i'd stop playing.

 

I'm with u kali.. i'm totally with u... 


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#56 ChakriGuard

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 05:54 PM

Pots have always been bad game design to begin with. Nobody dies unless you one shot them or produce absurd DPS. Just add a 0.5 second cooldown to pot use or something, that way you don't have to compete with a machine.

 

You always impress me  :p_idea:  :p_hi:


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#57 Omegatroid

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 05:54 PM

"This is the end, the end of the patch (Path)  Ragnarok (I) started us on."


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#58 Necrohealiac

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:02 PM

"This is the end, the end of the patch (Path)  Ragnarok (I) started us on."


basically. even if this doesn't change the meta b/c apparently so many people are already using it, you are starting down a very slippery slope by legitimizing things that have always been illegal.

and like Almr pointed people aren't going to just switch to a "sanctioned" AP if they were using one already b/c theirs might be better. if it's already very difficult to tell if someone is using AP when it's ILLEGAL think how much of a pain it will be to catch someone using a "legit" AP vs a "non-legit" program.
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#59 DeadIntern

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:03 PM

... just put a huge-arse cooldown on pot usage.

 

I think auto pot programs have delay settings. They just have to change accordingly

 

 

But yeah, I'm also against auto-pot. I can just imagine genes with alt suras solo-ing ET with its sura autopotting itself. >.>


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#60 Gn1ydnu

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:04 PM

Also please do not compare drug legalization to legalizing cheating. Drugs shouldn't be illegal in the first place since they are victimless crimes and people should be able to hurt themselves if that's what they want. Crimes committed under the influence of drugs are already crimes.

 

Legalization of pot is no different then the legalization of autopot.

 

-Both spark lots of strong personal opinions (example is this thread along with above through about strong personal opinions)

-Both are "gateways" to bigger badder things (I would argue alcohol is the real offender of this)

-Neither are harmful, AP hinders your ability to survive compared to proper macros, prepotting, and coding issues when getting spammed by things such as GD. 

-Both make you more stupid

-It is pointless to fine, ban, or imprison people who abuse either, since such a high % of populations have used it before.

 

It is a great example for pot vs autopot. Drugs as a whole is totally different to compare to autopot. That case would be Drugs vs Cheats, both are very broad terms. 


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#61 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:06 PM

Also please do not compare drug legalization to legalizing cheating. Drugs shouldn't be illegal in the first place since they are victimless crimes and people should be able to hurt themselves if that's what they want. Crimes committed under the influence of drugs are already crimes.

 

Banning autopot is like banning steroids in baseball. It ruins the game so it needs to be taken out if at all possible, and saying let everyone do it because you can't catch the ones who are doing it is a major cop out.

 

Better to legalise and create an easy avenue for monitoring and restriction than leave it up to the players, maintaining a significant disparity in the effectiveness of legal and illegal play.

 

It's seriously hard to police AP. Impossibly hard in some cases.

 

You also need to ask yourself, would people continue to play RO if potting mechanics were changed to introduce cooldowns? This hasn't been the case in pretty much every serious pserver that attempted to combat the problem in the history of ever, so how would iRO be different?


Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 23 June 2015 - 06:08 PM.

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#62 Xellie

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:12 PM

...


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#63 zerowon

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:13 PM

The fact that this is even on the table for consideration amazes me. Please let me know when your gonna consider selling 1.0gods and mvp cards I'll break into my 401k for you
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#64 Sankun

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:13 PM

i want to vote NO to autopot please the game will lost the esccense the fun of Ro is spamm alot of buttons thanks to RO many players are skilled in another games with only 4 buttons


please no :sob:


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#65 renouille

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:14 PM

What would be the objective behind developing this?

The objective is to put everyone on roughly equal footing wrt autopot. The only feasible ideas I've seen for achieving this are:
1. Making it available to everyone.
2. Putting a cooldown on healing items.

Autopot can't be detected nor prevented reliably. It's not a matter of Gravity being lazy and incompetent; it's simply not practical. Any countermeasure you devise to defeat autopot can be overcome (almost always with far less effort than that needed to implement the countermeasure itself!).

Imagine a rule that requires your character's gender to match your RL gender. How could you enforce it? Would you go this far*? Yes, this isn't a cheat, but it's an example of something that's virtually impossible to "police".

* Even this isn't foolproof.

P.S. Just to be clear, I'm not in favor of legalized autopot. I'm not opposed to it either.
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#66 Necrohealiac

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:16 PM

...


hi Xellie!
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#67 ForteGS

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:17 PM

Wait a second, is not already legit? so what happening since 2010? D=!


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#68 ShoLin

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:18 PM

The objective is to put everyone on roughly equal footing wrt autopot. The only feasible ideas I've seen for achieving this are:
1. Making it available to everyone.
2. Putting a cooldown on healing items.

Autopot can't be detected nor prevented reliably. It's not a matter of Gravity being lazy and incompetent; it's simply not practical. Any countermeasure you devise to defeat autopot can be overcome (almost always with far less effort than that needed to implement the countermeasure itself!).

Imagine a rule that requires your character's gender to match your RL gender. How could you enforce it? Would you go this far*? Yes, this isn't a cheat, but it's an example of something that's virtually impossible to "police".

* Even this isn't foolproof.

P.S. Just to be clear, I'm not in favor of legalized autopot. I'm not opposed to it either.

 

They had that before with the gender thing.


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#69 leiand

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:20 PM

2. Putting a cooldown on healing items.
 

Putting a cooldown on healing items is making sura's furthermore at disadvantage.

When we gfist we already can regain sp till.after cooldown, and some relies on pot till we can actually use a sp item.

in mvping. we cant TP all the time to loose whatever being fisted, we needs that pot without cooldown timers.


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#70 Alaska

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:22 PM

Some of you need to stop attacking the wrong people because you're against the idea. It's getting ridiculous.


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#71 KiyokoHasami

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:25 PM

The lulz generated in this thread are getting pretty damn high.


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#72 Ashuckel

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:28 PM

no... just no

that's the problem when u authorize any kind of "extra" content that wasn't originally supposed to exist, it opens the way to more and more things to come in, in no time i see an auto-play function (aka bot) being put in.

btw, no cooldown on pots, that's one of the few things that ro is better (imo) than the other 98% of the mmos out there, the button smash is so real xD


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#73 Yugacky

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:30 PM

Please don't make game boring. We don't need auto-pot.


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#74 Xellie

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:31 PM

I have, and always will advocate that autopot changes the skill cap for RO.

 

I do not like autopot.

 

And I have fought against it for many years (both as a concept and in war). I have listened to my guild tear itself to pieces over unfair playing fields and differing opinions.

 

I have mulled over the possibilities for enforcement over and over. I have watched people falter from being "legit" to desperate and my confession is I've done it maybe 3 times (about a year ago) because no, it wasn't fair.

 

Ultimately, autopot is extremely hard to enforce. I'm not going to use the word "impossible", but I would guess it is damn near to it, due to the complexity of autopots. As a player, I dislike it.

As a community leader I can't accept any other path. Fairness is important. Fairness is an equal playing ground. It is no longer "cheating" if it is legal. This must be the final recourse however. All other options for enforcement MUST be exhausted.

 

I want people to consider autopot a culture shift. We're not talking about legalizing something that can hurt players, just something that shifts the game. Please consider this before you attack those who have fought so hard against it only to face this reality.

 

Thank you.


Edited by Xellie, 23 June 2015 - 06:33 PM.

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#75 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:34 PM

that's the problem when u authorize any kind of "extra" content that wasn't originally supposed to exist, it opens the way to more and more things to come in

 

RCX? Multiclienting? Macroing? It's a case-by-case thing.

 

btw, no cooldown on pots, that's one of the few things that ro is better (imo) than the other 98% of the mmos out there, the button smash is so real xD

 

Yep.


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