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Legitimized Autopot


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#76 ShoLin

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:39 PM

To people that are against it, start coming up with ideas to make no one have it.

 

For the no delay stuff have the game checksum the GRF. One bit off and have it not let you log in. Have a message saying to reinstall the game/re patch.


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#77 atsilva

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:44 PM

Hi.

I dont have a final opinion about the subject yet since i play PVM only and dont use autopot. Currently i'm trying to visualize the impacts, in the long term,in the players population.

According to this topic, thou, it seems the playerbase wont be drastically reduced because of this matter since the number of people against it is pretty much inexpressive.
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#78 Necrohealiac

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:46 PM

the leader of one of the largest renewal guilds just said she'd quit if this went through. how would the playerbase not be drastically impacted?
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#79 atsilva

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:48 PM

How many players would left because of that? Prolly half would join other guild dont u think. Else....40ppl gone?
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#80 Xellie

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:49 PM

the leader of one of the largest renewal guilds just said she'd quit if this went through. how would the playerbase not be drastically impacted?

 

This isn't a time for ultimatums or rhetoric. Guildleaders need to be honest about what is happening. I'm on the fence about returning to play right now and this conversation is going to sway this one way or the other for me.

 

I don't want to say what my reaction will be, but I understand 110% why this is an option to be considered. I don't think threats or attacks will help anything here. People need to put their emotions aside and discuss this factually.

 

Conversely, Classic was literally just impacted by "issues" resulting in the loss of ~60 people from the WoE scene (that cut it in half roughly); most of which stemmed from inequality on the battlefield and the staff reaction/community reaction to discussion. So yes, it's serious in both ways and not something to act childish over.


Edited by Xellie, 23 June 2015 - 06:51 PM.

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#81 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:50 PM

To people that are against it, start coming up with ideas to make no one have it.

 

For the no delay stuff have the game checksum the GRF. One bit off and have it not let you log in. Have a message saying to reinstall the game/re patch.

 

The GRF is modified every time the patcher runs, regardless of if any patches have been pushed out ;<


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#82 Necrohealiac

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:53 PM

How many players would left because of that? Prolly half would join other guild dont u think. Else....40ppl gone?


do you really want to go down that path though? iRO can't really afford to hemorrhage players. newsflash: it's not actually ~4k unique players online right now.
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#83 ilovemilk

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:54 PM

Dear Oda,

This will end iRO faster than you know. Please don't let it happen.

Sincerely, Milk.
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#84 Talvis

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:59 PM

One word, NO!  Hopefully this idea dies and falls into the pit of horrible ideas.  Legitimizing illegal activity is a horrible idea and just brings the game down.  This is pretty much the GMs admitting they've given up on stopping bad behavior.  I thought this was a professionally run server, not some pserver.


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#85 Darkeiko

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 06:59 PM

Auto-potting will not make the game any better, and if this is some sort of ill-conceived attempt to do so it won't.

 

The only benefit of legitimizing auto-potting is that everyone will be able to do it. Even if someone gave a toggle on and off option, who wouldn't toggle it on if given the option? Toggling it off when everyone else in the world does it already gives that person an unfair disadvantage. 

 

However, going down this road leaves an unpleasant taste in my mouth. Like many before me have said, legitimizing something that has been hailed as a big cheat in WoE and elsewhere strikes me with two opinions: one, the higher powers don't have the manpower to crack down on the cheaters and is doing this because they don't have any other options, or two which is basically a repeat of the first with no other options and complaints from the community saying how guilds auto-pot in WoE.

 

Honestly though, if there was lag from auto-potting guilds before, legitimizing this for everyone would make the server crash. There's already been enough problems and feeds about server maintenance. 

 

Is there a better solution other than legitimizing auto-pot? I don't know. Just because it's the "shiny turd" like Inu said, doesn't mean it's something that SHOULD be implemented. Having auto-pot, I feel, just dampens the mechanics of the game. There's something to be said about actual players fighting between each other. With this, the only difference is how fast everyone's CPU can catch up to the damage output. :|

 

The only real option is to ban auto-potting characters or do like other MMOs do and create a cooldown timer for potions. These options have been touted before in other people's threads. 

 

I know the second option is going to suck because RO is really unique in that the potions have no CD and that they're easily spammable. But if they do alter the mechanics for potions, maybe it's time to start altering game mechanics a bit like they did from Prerenewal to Renewal. 

 

*shrugs* My two cents.


Edited by Darkeiko, 23 June 2015 - 07:02 PM.

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#86 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 07:05 PM

A question that needs answering is "what would the capabilities of this first party AP be?"

 

What would the potting speed be? What HP/SP ranges would it be able to work under? What consumables would it be able to utilise? Will it have an interface? How configurable would it be?

 

Unless these questions are answered I don't think anyone should discount the possibility of this being a thing. Half the problem with AP isn't what your effective HPS is, but rather how easy it is to play without having to worry about maintaining it.


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#87 Nirvanna21

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 07:09 PM

I think they should forget about this auto potting thing and focus on something more important.

...

 

Improving the ticket system! It's currently too generic on RO. I think if some procedures were put in place with some more focused tickets then it may help the system be a little more Streamlined. By the by, I don't care about the ticket system for bots; in fact, I barely use it to report at all because the evidence required for it is something I will not do ever again.

 

But to help with things such as stuck characters, bugs and trades etc. Get this part sorted before you get on this cheating situation.


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#88 Darkeiko

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 07:11 PM

A question that needs answering is "what would the capabilities of this first party AP be?"

 

What would the potting speed be? What HP/SP ranges would it be able to work under? What consumables would it be able to utilise? Will it have an interface? How configurable would it be?

 

Unless these questions are answered I don't think anyone should discount the possibility of this being a thing. Half the problem with AP isn't what your effective HPS is, but rather how easy it is to play without having to worry about maintaining it.

 

Just a question, RO would make an auto-pot program. What will stop people who already auto-pot from not using an auto-pot program that's faster?

 

If there's a potting speed, people who already cheat using auto-pot will already go after a program that allows for a faster speed. 

 

Sure, there's a possibility of this being a thing, but there's always going to be some sort of disadvantage to the actual players who don't use outside or third party programs. There's always going to be that gap between actual players and the cheaters. 

 

Legitimizing auto-pot and then making a program for it will not make RO players say, "Oh here's a program RO made for us. Let's use it!" if there's a better option available to use as an add-on. O_o

 

It will become an arms race about who has the better add-on or who can auto-pot faster, or who can cheat better. It's not going to make the game better. 

 

I had a guild leader who could pot for the life of him and still take on guilds. He didn't use auto-pot, he used his skills, wits, and gears. That's true skill.

 

There's no reason there should even be auto-pot in the first place.


Edited by Darkeiko, 23 June 2015 - 07:14 PM.

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#89 ShoLin

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 07:15 PM

the leader of one of the largest renewal guilds just said she'd quit if this went through. how would the playerbase not be drastically impacted?

 

One guild leader leaves, everyone in that guild would leave as well.

 

551383205_dr_evil_right_thumb_xlarge.jpe


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#90 Talvis

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 07:16 PM

If they can't spot people who are doing AP now then instead of being lazy and legalizing it I like the idea of adding cool downs personally.  It would definitely add a new dimension to gameplay.  But sadly it would probably piss off too many people.


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#91 kingarthur6687

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 07:19 PM

Also, just want to say that legalizing autopotting will not make finding cheating-autopotters any easier. In fact, I'd wager it will make the job harder because the overall noise level in the environment is higher.
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#92 Xellie

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 07:20 PM

One guild leader leaves, everyone in that guild would leave as well.

 

551383205_dr_evil_right_thumb_xlarge.jpe

 

When a guildleader leaves the game, assume half their guild goes with them. If that guild is no longer a major competitor, then their rivals will leave too. The scope and threat of a guildleader "leaving" is not something to be sneezed at. It's not one player that walks out, it's a community leader and with that, what is built around them will crumble, both within their guild and out. It's not really fair to powertrip over presenting facts, imo.

 

Which is ironic because autopot is related to why I walked out on RO last week - nobody was listening. They're listening now which is why people should conduct themselves with facts not threats.
 


Edited by Xellie, 23 June 2015 - 07:21 PM.

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#93 Necrohealiac

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 07:22 PM

One guild leader leaves, everyone in that guild would leave as well.
 
551383205_dr_evil_right_thumb_xlarge.jpe


i guess you've never had a leader that inspired loyalty.
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#94 RHMY

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 07:23 PM

I haven't been on Pvp since 2004 when it became pots vs pots, only tried WoE for a few months..

+1 on cooldown on pots on wow/pvp....
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#95 Kuyami

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 07:24 PM

I don't like the idea of autopot, but I understand why this decision is needed.

 

What people against a legal autopot need to realize, is that the option is being implemented for them. Not for the people who already cheated with worse things, those ones will use AP, legal or not. Not legalizing AP means that people who play by the rules are at a dissadvantage. Legalizing AP means leaving the people who play by the rules and the cheaters closer to being on an equal ground.

 

So basically, the options are:

 

a ) Accept legal autopot and have everyone on equal grounds.

 

or

 

b ) Not accept autopot and leave the cheaters at a huge advantage versus people not cheating (unless someone can figure a way to prevent AP, which I think is close to impossible).

 

 

I would really rather to play without AP and the current mechanics, but I don't think it is possible to enforce it. So if Ap becomes legal, and everybody uses it, I'll probably start using it.


Edited by Kuyami, 23 June 2015 - 07:30 PM.

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#96 fuyukikun

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 07:28 PM

is this a premonition that iRO will close soon?


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#97 ShinobiEX3

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 07:28 PM

If my addicts... i mean buyers for food leave the game. How else will i make my zeny with food huh. huhhhhhhhhhh.

 

Oy vey infidels


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#98 DarkGazer

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 07:29 PM

If my addicts... i mean buyers for food leave the game. How else will i make my zeny with food huh. huhhhhhhhhhh.

 

Oy vey infidels

 

 

Oi, where's my order m8?


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#99 Tofu

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 07:31 PM

The current WoE scene is stupid. Because there's such a large number of people who autopot, you can't ever really be sure if you died because you were outclassed, or going against cheaters.

I stopped taking RO seriously once I found a game where you're actually worse playing with macros/cheats, than playing legitimately.

Legal autopot is -_-ty, but playing at a huge disadvantage just trying to play fair is not fun.

And lowered skill cap from legal autopot means nothing, if skill is meaningless because of cheaters.
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#100 Darkeiko

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 07:32 PM

I don't like the idea of autopot, but I understand why this desition is needed.

 

What people against a legal autopot need to realize, is that the option is being implemented for them. Not for the people who already cheated with worse things, those ones will use AP, legal or not. Not legalizing AP means that people who play by the rules are at a dissadvantage. Legalizing AP means leaving the people who play by the rules and the cheaters closer to being on an equal ground.

 

So basically, the options are:

 

a ) Accept legal autopot and have everyone on equal grounds.

 

or

 

b ) Not acept autopot and leave the cheaters at a huge advantage versus people not cheating (unless someone ca figure a way to prevent AP, which I think is close to impossible).

 

I think everyone realizes this, but feels like it's more like a "If you can't beat them, join them" sort of mindset that the GMs have adopted. It's like they've essentially given up on trying to crack down on auto-potters and have settled for the alternative option of just straight legitimizing it.

 

If they legitimize auto-potting, sure regular players will be put at a more level playing ground. But the fact that we as legitimate players who have played the game fairly and have been rewarded for our feats of triumph are basically being told that in the end, the cheaters finally won out just...it just feels wrong.

 

We earned our stuff, we earned our castles, we earned the loot, and we did it all without auto-potting. But now the people who have been cheating for so long, the people we were essentially fighting against are now getting their way is just...wrong.

 

It's basically the GMs telling us, "What's the point in playing fairly if we can just legitimize cheating at the drop of a hat?" It's like a domino effect. What's the point of banning people if we can just legitimize illegal activities? Then even bots will be legit, and there goes the entire server population if it hasn't already. 

 

And I'm going to kind of quote what kingarthur says in the post after this one, by legitimizing auto pot, what's the point of the AB class or healers in general? Priests will practically become obsolete because, honestly, that's the only thing they can do right now other than Kyrie and Assumptio and maybe Resurrection, but if you can auto-pot, who cares about death or damage mitigation?

 

We can't tank anymore, so that's basically one class you can just throw out. Hell, let's even throw out the Sac RGs, too, and make everyone Grand Cross RGs. Don't need Sacrifice anymore if everyone can survive off auto-pot.

 

See what I mean? You throw one thing that's MEANT to be illegal into the mix and everything goes to pot. Hur pun.


Edited by Darkeiko, 23 June 2015 - 07:41 PM.

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