357 replies to this topic

[rojoky113]

Still waiting on the red twin compensation.....

 

How do you define retroactive enforcement on dupes? Ban people who bought them / traded for them legally? Remove god items created under a defense benefiting from illegal items? De-level characters leeched off illegal belts? Take away all zeny from players who benefited from illegal red twin LKs in ET?

 

This runs deep there will never be a resolution or suitable enforcement for the beneficiaries, that's why they need to draw a line under it and move forward and keep the off the server.

 

It's just too bad the checks can only been done once a week - which is enough time to benefit.

 

Retroactive enforcement as in going back and doing the deleting and banning of people duping/rmting during this time their tool is unavailable. Otherwise I foresee a lot of people getting shiny new mvp cards for christmas.

 

Clearly bans are just for those who can be shown to have duped or rmted dupes/gens themselves. You can't go back and remove what people benefited from illegit items, but you can remove their impact on the server in the future. Just like we can't go back and undo the effects of the mistakes classic has made, but we can make changes to improve it from that point on. Those items should not be on the server, and if you took that logic strictly then there's no point to deleting them once they've been used once. Any sort of amnesty date is going to be hotly contested and honestly I don't see how it's fair to remove a card from an innocent player who got it a month ago compared to one that's had it for 2 years except to punish them for being a newer player working to acquire that high end gear compared to older players who have had it. Either way, illegit items of that power shouldn't remain on the server. The drop rates are bad enough, oversaturating items that are supposed to be that rare even further with dupes has a pretty bad effect on the server.

 

But like I said, the very bare minimum is to monitor every maint to make sure there are never any more of those illegit items popping up and remaining on the server. Debate what to do next after that step is taken.

Edited by rojoky113, 16 December 2015 - 10:01 AM.

[Xellie]

an innocent player who had the card a month is less impacted than one who had it two years, one of those trades can be undone, the other cannot.

 

For example, I paid a god creation, an oko run, a made asprika and brynhild set for one of mine. Now, how do you reverse this trade?

 

To further the point, where do you think zeny or items that were traded over a year ago are? Probably all over the server. It's a huge web to untangle. I don't think the manpower or time exists.

Edited by Xellie, 16 December 2015 - 10:04 AM.

[Undying]

For example, I paid a god creation, an oko run, a made asprika and brynhild set for one of mine. Now, how do you reverse this trade?

 

Lose the card, get all parts for god creation back (possibly a voucher for free creation instead), get parts/supplies back from oko run, get asprika back and brynhild set back.

 

If the card is illegit, it should not be here.

 

If they can't find every piece of zeny or whatever (which should have some effort put into it), then just create it. As long as the illegit items leave and people are fully compromised then the rest doesn't matter. 

 

IF nothing ever gets done, then we all mind as well dupe/rmt since there is zero punishment for it. No effort and not trying is pretty much enabling these things which have been spreading like cancer.

 

To further the point of how impactful the duping could potentially be, we have had discussions about redoing reductions and WoE BECAUSE of a plethora of specific cards and some of them have extremely high chances of being duped....

 

Change the game to accommodate for duped/illegit items???? Or simple handle the extremely HARD task of doing the right thing and removing the cards/compinsating the innocents????

 

It is a no brainier to me. 

Edited by Undying, 16 December 2015 - 10:13 AM.

[Xellie]

Lose the card, get all parts for god creation back (possibly a voucher for free creation instead), get parts/supplies back from oko run, get asprika back and brynhild set back.

 

If the card is illegit, it should not be here.

 

If they can't find every piece of zeny or whatever (which should have some effort put into it), then just create it. As long as the illegit items leave and people are fully compromised then the rest doesn't matter. 

 

IF nothing ever gets done, then we all mind as well dupe/rmt since there is zero punishment for it. No effort and not trying is pretty much enabling these things which have been spreading like cancer.

 

To further the point of how impactful the duping could potentially be, we have had discussions about redoing reductions and WoE BECAUSE of a plethora of specific cards and some of them have extremely high chances of being duped....

 

Change the game to accommodate for duped/illegit items???? Or simple handle the extremely HARD task of doing the right thing and removing the cards/compinsating the innocents????

 

It is a no brainier to me. 

 

+100 characters + 100 seal stones + 1 month of time to create the chars + BMs/VIP maybe? You're assuming the set was mine.

 

You can't refund services.

 

The game changes must go ahead because they cannot/will not be able to identify 100% all the new/duped cards. And even they do, WoE is between maints. And don't tell me people on this server wouldn't drop money for a one off. They would. They have. This stuff cannot be scrubbed away and the punishments cannot be aptly applied. If it was up to me certain people would have god items unmade because of benefiting from multiple hibram precasts. (knowing that 2 out of those 5 were legit) or what no? Is that ok? Maybe that guy with the duped OL (I making this up) who carried his guild through ET should be responsible for his party losing all their zeny because they made billions by reflecting their way through ET... and could not have done without that mvp card.

 

The benefits have already been done, the MVP cards have already carried those players. I hate it too but it's the truth, just look forward now and don't waste the small amount of manpower Classic has on the past instead of fixing the future. I'd rather they developed the server to improve, not waste time undoing a billion deals that are ultimately going to

 

- upset players who thought they earned things legitly

- saturate the server with more zeny (that is a terrible thing, btw)

- not change the benefits they have already gotten

I'd rather see more pvp content, more dungeons, more maps, better bgs and that stuff.
 

[Undying]

+100 characters + 100 seal stones + 1 month of time to create the chars + BMs/VIP maybe? You're assuming the set was mine.

 

A voucher for free creation should be compensation for the characters, stones, and time, vip/bm. I do not mean to assume, just going off of the information provided. If the set was yours then you should get the set back.

 

I agree that I want to see the server move forwards and have all of these awesome things going on. That is a very important part to everything.

 

However, are we suppose to literally do nothing/look the other way that there is a potential of highly powerful (game changing?) duped/illegit cards/equips? That doesn't seem right, the cheaters get away with it all again. Why should I play legitly when cheaters can cheat and nothing is ever done about it and people don't want anything to be done about it? Why should I?

 

It might just be too late to do anything about it, which I think is the point of your post. I am just angry that it is at this point, currently. To say it is disappointing is an understatement. 

[Xellie]

A voucher for free creation should be compensation for the characters, stones, and time, vip/bm. I do not mean to assume, just going off of the information provided. If the set was yours then you should get the set back.

 

I agree that I want to see the server move forwards and have all of these awesome things going on. That is a very important part to everything.

 

However, are we suppose to literally do nothing/look the other way that there is a potential of highly powerful (game changing?) duped/illegit cards/equips? That doesn't seem right, the cheaters get away with it all again. Why should I play legitly when cheaters can cheat and nothing is ever done about it and people don't want anything to be done about it? Why should I?

 

It might just be too late to do anything about it, which I think is the point of your post. I am just angry that it is at this point, currently. To say it is disappointing is an understatement. 

 

They already got away with it tho, they had usage of those items all this time to get other items. And that is my point, it is too late.

 

Want a great example of how silly this could be? Imagine the trade log for my guard. It's possibly traded 20+ a week, sometimes with other items in the window, sometimes traded for other items in the window and each trade is a potential trade that need to be done or considered as an ownership change. GTBs might not change hands for a DR, GR, +9 diab boots and 100 ACAs, but that's a realistic trade when we're passing items between players.

 

People who sold diab rings for their items, either lose out because dia rings are worth 1/4 what they were back then, or get zeny generated for them to match up? Like.... rates and values have changed and it's such a gigantic mess.

 

I want things cleaned up, but this is reality. The reality is that it stinks and people will get upset, people will leave and the problem has gone on far too long for it to be reasonably handled. That's why I propose a random amnesty date that doesn't go too far back - at the very least, that leaves the items in the economy for future generations to buy legitimately from other players to compete.

 

That tastes bad to say, I hope you realize this, but this is the result of letting it fester.
 

[Heart]

Here , I made a flow chart

 

Edit : We can't really undo the damage it has already caused, only stop further damage.

Compensation I think would be good if its CURRENT item value, so yea it would create a HUGE zeny increase on server but, what better options for legit players who bought em?

Edited by Heart, 16 December 2015 - 10:49 AM.

[Xellie]

inflation hurts other players, not the people who receive it.

Even now we need a zeny sink...

 

and umm... if you give them legit parts to replace the illegit parts why bother? Nothing changes....

Edited by Xellie, 16 December 2015 - 10:55 AM.

[Heart]

inflation hurts other players, not the people who receive it.

Even now we need a zeny sink...

 

and umm... if you give them legit parts to replace the illegit parts why bother? Nothing changes....

 

I meant the parts that are legit....and zeny for illegit parts (not all of pieces in a set maybe duped).

And i know inflation hurts ALOT, but what are the alternatives?

 

Edit: Shouldn't have been so lazy in my wording. Obviously don't replace the duped ones with real ones.

Edited by Heart, 16 December 2015 - 10:59 AM.

[Xellie]

Beat them and remind them that playing ability and teamwork isn't something that can be RMTed.

[Heart]

Beat them and remind them that playing ability and teamwork isn't something that can be RMTed.

 

But it hurts growing and newer guilds too ._.

[Xellie]

But it hurts growing and newer guilds too ._.

inflation hurts new players more than anyone

 

And regardless of all of this, the mvp card count, legit or non, will continue to go up. So it needs looking at anyway.

[Heart]

GMs should be like

"Guys we lost all data, ISP screwed us over, all server item data lost."

Server reset.

Dusk of iRO.

 

[teresias]

inflation hurts other players, not the people who receive it.

Even now we need a zeny sink...

 

and umm... if you give them legit parts to replace the illegit parts why bother? Nothing changes....

 

I agree.  Inflation would hurt the new players the most.  And that's what this server needs, right?  New players.

[Undying]

Who wants to join a server that is carried through dupes, rmt, and cheating?

 

We can have great starter packs, great additions (GSB ect), and advertising... But who will actually want to join the server or stick around when they realize how much illegit things go on?

[Xellie]

Who wants to join a server that is carried through dupes, rmt, and cheating?
 
We can have great starter packs, great additions (GSB ect), and advertising... But who will actually want to join the server or stick around when they realize how much illegit things go on?

This is all rather familiar....

[Undying]

This is all rather familiar....

 

And by not handling the problems with fundamental issues look at how the server population has changed since two years ago. 

 

Again, our solution is to "grandfather" all of the illegit -_-? Make the deadline January 1st, 2016 so that the rest of us can catch up! Plz n thx.

 

But seriously.

[Xellie]

And by not handling the problems with fundamental issues look at how the server population has changed since two years ago. 

 

Again, our solution is to "grandfather" all of the illegit ? Make the deadline January 1st, 2016 so that the rest of us can catch up! Plz n thx.

 

But seriously.

 

Stuff always gets overlooked. Could it be the only solution is a complete wipe? Why people say that makes a ton of sense, but people will not have the faith that it won't happen again.

 

Sooo...... it's all about damage control and possibly maintaining as many players as possible. idk, I've seen good, honest players hurt firsthand by this stuff... retaining what few there are means a lot to me cause I do not think the ones that left will return.
 

[PatrickBurg]

Does al de baran spotlight include Juno filed and Mt.Mjolnir field?

 

Thanks.

[Rythen]

So, umm, this is awkward...

 

Uh, don't mind me... Any work done on checking for legit mvp cards? Examples include: Tao, OH, FBH, GTB ect

 

Also, will there be work done on this or is this something that is unimportant now?

They're too busy banning for emblem swaps.

[Inubashiri]

All dirty money and cards to to the Midgard toys for tots fund

[Synapsse]

"Offense1: GRF Editing, This user edited their GRF to replace trap sprites with a white box outlined in red.  " 

 

how is this anything other than a QoL that we've apparently allowed? This simply shows the traps, for the user, playing a sniper. He placed those snares and it prevents him from walking back into them. If a flat gray map and all that other nonsense is allowed, this should fall under it and I really don't see it being an issue .It's client side (much like everything else that is apparently allowed) and effects nobody but the user. 

argument: you can see the traps anyways, only traps i am seeing are ankle snares(it keeps the shape, and shows a red x in the middle as if to say, don't walk here) if you can  add all of that other stuff  to your client, why not this?

[Xellie]

and the predictable petition game begins

[Nathy]

If they did a proper rmt check some of you that think your don't stink would get banned... I'd like to see a GTB check. How many exist to how many have dropped. That would be fun.

 

Sooooo GTB check? I promise you once that is done the server would be cancer free.

[AlmrOfAtlas]

"Offense1: GRF Editing, This user edited their GRF to replace trap sprites with a white box outlined in red.  " 

 

how is this anything other than a QoL that we've apparently allowed? This simply shows the traps, for the user, playing a sniper. He placed those snares and it prevents him from walking back into them. If a flat gray map and all that other nonsense is allowed, this should fall under it and I really don't see it being an issue .It's client side (much like everything else that is apparently allowed) and effects nobody but the user. 

argument: you can see the traps anyways, only traps i am seeing are ankle snares(it keeps the shape, and shows a red x in the middle as if to say, don't walk here) if you can  add all of that other stuff  to your client, why not this?

 

Because you're not allowed to edit object or actor sprites. Maps are not an object or actor sprites. The rules are pretty clear-cut. If you make an exception for traps you create an extremely dangerous precedent.