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Flatmap/Greyworld should be illegal? Thoughts?


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#51 rojoky113

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 05:57 PM

And AP is banned, because it's a 3pp that pots for you and removes the need for you to play the game skillfully since it automates the task for you.

 

Arguing that it's fine because a skillful player will always be swinging his camera around to see everything and everyone and every hidden character behind obstacles perfectly and instantly would be the same as arguing that a skillful player will always immediately start potting instantly at max speed when attacked so AP is totally fine man obviously.

 

Nope no advantages or invalidation of gameplay going on here no siree.


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#52 Myzery

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 06:16 PM

I never said it was fine.

I'm saying it's because because it gives average players a huge advantage.


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#53 PervySageMarty

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 03:42 AM

I never said it was fine.

I'm saying it's because because it gives average players a huge advantage.

 

So i ask again why they don't give us old perv players an advantage by giving us a big melons mod, just because my pervyness is over 9000 doesnt mean i stop there.

 

On an on topic note so then I don't get skewered by Cinnamod I believe Xellie is right, Greyworld illegalization. End of story.


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#54 kingarthur6687

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 04:21 AM

Greyworld illegalization. End of story.

Quoted for truth.
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#55 Inubashiri

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 10:31 AM

Why does there need to be an official change to the meta of the game with basically no input from the other 90% of the community, for that matter why does it need changing at all?  I'm personally skeptical of any request to change anything in the GRF because usually the ones doing the requesting get an inch and take a mile.  The game did just fine years before that.  Most of these always end up with one player having an advantage over another unless all have it.

 

Then it always becomes a never ending race to put more and more in followed by a retraction of all because something had a loop hole in the wording, I don't think the staff need to do this because it basically requires a law degree with how some people do upside down interpretations of X and Y.


Edited by Inubashiri, 05 February 2016 - 10:38 AM.

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#56 squirreI

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 01:34 PM

Guess I should clarify. Greyworld helps skilled players more than it helps others. And I'm not basing that on seeing things behind textures. I don't really care for that ability to hide.

 

But in the end, with greyworld has it's advantages (promoting better gameplay in a good manner) and disadvantages (removing the ability to hide behind textures), I don't think this is much of an issue. I'd rather autopot, nodelay, and dupes be focused on more.


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#57 Xellie

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 03:00 PM

what are you talking about it helps idiots that don't rotate their camera more than anyone lmao


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#58 ShinobiEX3

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 04:04 PM

we dont need any 3rd prty programs in ro period what we need is for devs to actually fix all the bugs in the game so its playable with out the cry for 3rd prty programs. >.>


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#59 Undying

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 04:06 PM

Luckily greyworld isn't a 3pp. AHK is a 3pp, for example. Greyworld is simply QoL. It is more comparable to noshake/nobm then actual cheats.

 

I do not use it, but not against it. 


Edited by Undying, 05 February 2016 - 04:07 PM.

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#60 Xellie

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 04:09 PM

Luckily greyworld isn't a 3pp. AHK is a 3pp, for example. Greyworld is simply QoL. It is more comparable to noshake/nobm then actual cheats.

 

I do not use it, but not against it. 

 

Yeah no giveadamns for class invalidation here.


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#61 Undying

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 04:18 PM

I care about the gunslingers (who's only purpose is low level dragon parties), the ninjas (who are useless besides low level Lunia parties), the mastersmiths (who only AAR and repair, if a guild even allows them in), and the super novices (1hko goats? That's about it). 

 

A competent player with mp should rotate angels anyways. If we are talking about class invalidation then lets focus on the above 4 classes. Perhaps allow those classes to wear valk armors with the stun resist benefit? Perhaps allow more useful items in game. We should make iRO welcoming for all classes, since it isn't about the gvg meta scene, right? 


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#62 ShinobiEX3

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 04:22 PM

Luckily greyworld isn't a 3pp. AHK is a 3pp, for example. Greyworld is simply QoL. It is more comparable to noshake/nobm then actual cheats.

 

I do not use it, but not against it. 

QoL as well. ^.^


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#63 kingarthur6687

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 04:36 PM

the mastersmiths (who only AAR and repair, if a guild even allows them in),
...
Perhaps allow those classes to wear valk armors with the stun resist benefit?

http://db.irowiki.or...item-info/2357/
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#64 Inubashiri

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 05:56 PM

Luckily greyworld isn't a 3pp. AHK is a 3pp, for example. Greyworld is simply QoL. It is more comparable to noshake/nobm then actual cheats.

 

I do not use it, but not against it. 

 

requires 3rd party software to install


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#65 Undying

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 06:08 PM

requires 3rd party software to install

 

So does RO in general. Ban iRO since it requires other programs to be updated in order to play it.


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#66 Inubashiri

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 06:40 PM

So does RO in general. Ban iRO since it requires other programs to be updated in order to play it.

 

Okay really that's a really upside down argument, by that logic you should ban Windows as well.  We both know where such edits come from and its not the original publisher nor did they have permission to do such things in the first place, lets dispense with the bs please


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#67 Undying

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 06:49 PM

Okay really that's a really upside down argument, by that logic you should ban Windows as well.  We both know where such edits come from and its not the original publisher nor did they have permission to do such things in the first place, lets dispense with the bs please

 

Dispense the bs is a two way street. 

 

Me: Greyworld isn't a 3pp 

You: Greyworld requires 3pp software to install

Me: iRO requires 3pp software to run ?_?

 

Point: It isn't a 3pp and people need to know the difference. Education is the basis of prevention.

 

Neither of us are wrong, just getting hung up on schematics. You can have the last word, but don't you dare put me down for stooping to your level.

 

Using RCX requires updates from 3pp

Updating for "large cards" (if this is still allowed) requires 3pp

Making noshake requires 3pp

Making QoL changes requires 3pp

The list goes on.


Edited by Undying, 05 February 2016 - 06:56 PM.

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#68 Inubashiri

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 07:00 PM

Dispense the bs is a two way street. 

 

Me: Greyworld isn't a 3pp 

You: Greyworld requires 3pp software to install

Me: iRO requires 3pp software to run ?_?

 

Point: It isn't a 3pp and people need to know the difference. Education is the basis of prevention.

 

Neither of us are wrong, just getting hung up on schematics. You can have the last word, but don't you dare put me down for stooping to your level.

 

You're the one who made the childish remark to ban RO, but since you're on the subject, yes it requires them to use installshield to make an installation, however this isn't even required because you can just copy pasta all the files and it works.  Yes RO requires other software from other vendors just like every other program in existence, they require you to pay a license fee to utilize them such as installshield to make an installation.  The software used to peek into or modify the GRF of RO is 3rd party written software because the propitiatory base code belongs to Gravity Interactive, Inc.  I know this because we had to obtain permission after permission to write plugins for the game.

 

If people want that pserver stuff then go play on them, stop bringing that cancer back over here, simple as that.  That goes for your Autopot and the like too.


Edited by Inubashiri, 05 February 2016 - 07:01 PM.

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#69 ShinobiEX3

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 07:16 PM

Ive always like to get disagree with inu just because, but this is the one of those times i 100% agree and back what inu is saying. full support +1 infinity and beyond

tumblr_n3mg5oVyBP1qjq7hxo1_500.gif


Edited by ShinobiEX3, 05 February 2016 - 07:16 PM.

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#70 Undying

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 07:21 PM

Autopot is a 3pp which deserves its own thread (oddly enough RCX is literally a 3pp as well). 

 

For the topic about greyworld... Yes it does hinder the efficiency of cloak/hide. However, it supposedly reduces lag making iRO much more playable. These servers require 3pp such as lowerping to be remotely playable during WoE. There are several benefits of greyworld and one drawback. The drawback of making cloak/hide less effective, while making the playing players lag less and enjoy the game for what it is.

 

 

 

Why does there need to be an official change to the meta of the game with basically no input from the other 90% of the community, for that matter why does it need changing at all? ......... The game did just fine years before that.  

 

I know that you don't want the pserver cancer here, as you stated. I happen to agree that pserver style/play is overly simplified and boring. To be completely honest, you could easily make a guild out of pure bots that plays "gvgs" better then any group of players due to the perfect harmony, but I suppose that is another story. 

 

Problem is, there needs to be change. No change and the server continues to drop in population. It is so sad that there are so many gods/mvps/minis on Classic that every single WoE active player could wear multiple god items. That is pathetic, tbh. I am getting sidetracked. QoL changes are needed, this is why.

 

The pservers (as much as I dislike) are Warpportals direct competition. Currently, there are tens of THOUSANDS of "classic" pserver players. We are lucky to have 500 including all the bots/venders. The game did just fine years ago? Yeah, but that was in the past, years ago. Why should people play iRO Classic when they could just go to a pserver with less lag, more population, and many QoL changes to enhance their playing experience (I am not talking "cheats", simply QoL)? 

 

Basically, if WP doesn't step up their game with the game... The population will decline and pre-renewal mechanics with any sort of "mass fighting" will only exist on pservers. That is why change and QoL is so dire for iRO to survive right now. I wouldn't say that having greyworld is make or break, but I fail to recognize why we shouldn't have options.

 

We might dislike the pserver players and their mentality... However, from a business perspective, there is an ENORMOUS amount of potential players out there. It would be foolish to not tap into that market to make some $$$$. That being said, iRO security would have to be stepped up to force others into playing iRO how it was intended to be played. I have faith that you can help make this possible ;) , but pserver players are the future of Classic if we want it to survive in any meaningful way (less then 80 "actual players" in a WAR =/= meaningful). 


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#71 Inubashiri

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 07:49 PM

If people need the excuse of greyworld or legal AP to play they are don't deserve to play period (yes I'm VERY aware of classic so please don't use that as a crutch to attack me).  I fail to see why a tron looking map will "attract" new players.  And if you need an AI to pot for you then you're doing it wrong, at least a macro requires some attention.  I don't feel like having to have the responsibility of enforcing what should be common sense, and realistically the community needs to step up and stop allowing their friends to do such retarded things and stop relying on us or the staff to "fix" cheats or provide GRF changes "just cause some p'server does it".  Some people just should be really ashamed to the next level pretending not to cheat but are and also using this and pretend they don't.  Next thing, people will want no sprite animations and then no sprites at all.  Certain aspects I can understand in terms of effects, Kaleidoscope will hopefully address 98% of that.


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#72 Undying

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 07:54 PM

AP is not the topic. I agree with you completely about that.

 

Greyworld removes unnecessary sprites and textures from the game. It is that simple. RCX does a very similar function.


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#73 Inubashiri

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 08:02 PM

Unnecessary...or inconvenient?


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#74 zerowon

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 08:02 PM

why don't we just utilize  a direct neural interface yet separate the wheat from the chaff


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#75 Undying

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 08:08 PM

Unnecessary...or inconvenient?

 

Both.

 

It is unnecessary and an inconvenience for the screen to be covered in Storm Gust animations, that is why we have RCX. However, having /effect or screen covered in Storm Gust animations is truly a "classic experience" and Renewal seems fine without RCX.

 

Again, both RCX and Greyworld just remove unnecessary aspects of the game.

 

Nobody, in the middle of a fight, is going to stop and say "wow 153,312 has such an amazing architectural design. I can really appreciate the work put into making this castle". 

 

Nobody is forcing people to use RCX and nobody is forcing people to use Greyworld. I do not use greyworld at all, but I don't have anything against it.


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