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Flatmap/Greyworld should be illegal? Thoughts?


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#76 Inubashiri

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 08:25 PM

Probably because you don't understand the implications of allowing one thing and opening the door to others, oh wait


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#77 ShinobiEX3

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 08:37 PM

If playing a game has soo much inconvenience., Why play it. No! that route is too extreme, lets add other programs to the game that wasnt part of the game to begin with because my views on how to play it is better than the devs who created it. Yes lets do that. lol humans


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#78 Undying

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 08:50 PM

If playing a game has soo much inconvenience., Why play it. No! that route is too extreme, lets add other programs to the game that wasnt part of the game to begin with because my views on how to play it is better than the devs who created it. Yes lets do that. lol humans

 

Play without macros, RCX, and voice communicating software. That is how it was originally intended. 

 

The game is old and modifications have been made through time. It evolves. Most of the things that us "humans" create/use are fixes to problems that the "almighty" devs failed to fix. For example, fixing the BM or was it the dev intention to have a broken system? 


Edited by Undying, 05 February 2016 - 08:53 PM.

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#79 Inubashiri

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 09:10 PM

I play without macros and RCX and voice communication, whats next?  I only use such things when tasked to investigate the c word and report the findings or document it for kRO, minus the voice communications.


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#80 squirreI

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 10:08 PM

what are you talking about it helps idiots that don't rotate their camera more than anyone lmao

 

I believe the order from greatest to least benefit goes like this..

 

People with a good grasp on game mechanics->People who keep getting chaosed->People who don't rotate their camera.

 

A competent player with mp should rotate angels anyways.

 

Reminds me of Nicholas Angle from Hot Fuzz.

 

If people need the excuse of greyworld or legal AP to play they are don't deserve to play period

 

All your base are belong to us.


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#81 kingarthur6687

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 11:44 PM

Both.
 
It is unnecessary and an inconvenience for the screen to be covered in Storm Gust animations, that is why we have RCX. However, having /effect or screen covered in Storm Gust animations is truly a "classic experience" and Renewal seems fine without RCX.

Not having your screen spammed white with Storm Gust is monumentally different to dumping imperial buttloads of gray paint and flattening the map with a steamroller.

Edited by kingarthur6687, 05 February 2016 - 11:49 PM.

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#82 Xellie

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 02:24 AM

I think the idea of changing the game from what it is/was to moba ro is silly. We should have space for that content but don't ruin real woe for us.

 

I want to go find all the posts of undying asking for 50 count seals and approving seal power 2 now after that saturation comment.

Also all those other classes are invalidated by their creation, not by cheats.

 

Neural interface? Challenge accepted Zerowon. Hope it comes with an adapter for you. <3

 

Squirrel I'm having a hard time comprehending your stuff about Chaos. In theory Greyworld hurts people who are chaosed because the opposing team can target them easier/faster if they derp out of the stack? Flattening the map shouldn't affect it in any way because unwalkable tiles are still unwalkable.

 

unless bigger cheats are at play.


Edited by Xellie, 06 February 2016 - 02:30 AM.

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#83 CadburyChocolate

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 02:41 AM

So these people actually have fun playing grey tiles?


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#84 Inubashiri

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 02:43 AM

Personally I don't see how the two are distinguished, you have to have to have third party software to install these GRF edits and I know that kRO isn't in the business of distributing such a tool and unless you know how to magnetically realign the bits on your harddrive by hand it sorta is relevant.  To the subject of even having it, such changes will affect EVERYONE and you can't say that EVERYONE wants this unless the sky in your universe is pokadotted rainbow colored.  I don't know currently of a way to add in the toggling of GRF assets while the game is live, at least the majority of them, and i know for dang sure not for maps.

 

If you want your pserver stuff then go play on it, but please quit trying to import it onto the legal servers.  Nobody wants that trash.


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#85 Xellie

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 02:50 AM

GMs should demand screenshots from random players at random times during woe without relogs.

 

.... WITH ME ON SCREEN AAAAAAHAHHA


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#86 WolfTri

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 04:39 AM

I can't quite decide on this topic lol. I for one absolutely cannot tolerate playing on that, no way I'm waking up at 5am to play what looks like minesweeper. I don't think the advantages are *that* significant to be comparable to AP, but I see no compelling arguments as to why it should be allowed. Lack of enforceability isn't a good enough reason to allow it imo. I do understand that there can't even be a slight inkling to other players that someone uses this, as opposed to auto *anything* where you can see a clear external impact and that is enough to raise a few eyebrows. I guess that also speaks about the not-so-severe effect of this "mod", its a lot more subtle than the others (to the third person). 

I think the difference between this and noshake/RCX is that terrain is a very integral part of the game. You strip that away and it looks like an entirely different game. The first time I saw a video of that, I went "what game is this". Took me a few seconds of examining characters to actually confirm that it is indeed RO. I mean it looks like an Excel sheet at first glance, ffs. This is not the case with RCX or noshake. It still very much looks like Ragnarok Online. The visual effect it has is too significant, and it will require equally significant reasons to allow it. The problem isn't so much about gameplay or balance, it's more of how much of the game are you allowed to strip away. I don't even know if it's legal to edit the client to that extent, does the end-user license allow it? Will try to look through it to maybe find some answers.


Edited by WolfTri, 06 February 2016 - 04:41 AM.

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#87 kingarthur6687

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 04:46 AM

I don't even know if it's legal to edit the client to that extent, does the end-used license allow it? Will try to look through it to maybe find some answers.

Here's the relevant part of the EULA from what I could find.
 

10. Intellectual Property
Including but not limited to, all communication features of Gravity contains copyrighted material, trademarks and other proprietary information including, but not limited to, any titles, text, software, photographs, video, graphics, computer code, themes, objects, characters, character names, stories, dialog, catch phrases, locations, concepts, artwork, character inventories, structural or landscape designs, animations, sounds, musical compositions, audio-visual effects, storylines, character likenesses, methods of operation, moral rights, any related documentation, and "applets" incorporated into the Game and the entire contents of Gravity and each area contained therein are copyrighted as a collective work and exclusively owned and licensed by Gravity and protected by the copyright laws of the United States, international copyright treaties and conventions, and other laws. All rights are reserved.
Gravity owns copyrights in the selection, coordination, arrangement and enhancement of such contents. User may not in whole or in part, copy, photocopy, reproduce, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code, modify, disassemble, decompile, or create derivative works based on the Game, modify, publish, transmit, participate in the transfer or sale, create derivative works, or in any way exploit, any of the content contained on Gravity (including, without limitation, content that the Website enables you to download) without the express written permission of Gravity and the copyright owner. In the event of any permitted copying, redistribution or publication of copyrighted material, no changes in or deletion of author attribution, trademark, and legend or copyright notice shall be made. The downloading of copyrighted material from Gravity is allowed by the user expressly for the user's own personal use.
User acknowledges that Gravity and/or third-party content providers remain the owners of all materials posted on Gravity, and that the user does not acquire any of those ownership rights by downloading copyrighted materials.

Failure to comply with the restrictions and limitations shall result in immediate, automatic termination of the Account granted hereunder and may subject you to civil and/or criminal liability. [Notwithstanding the foregoing, you may make one (1) copy of the Game Client and the Manuals for archival purposes only.]

https://support.warp...ement-eula.aspx

TL;DR you cannot reverse engineer RO client files or modify them, standard literature found in almost every EULA if you ask me.
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#88 Inubashiri

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 05:01 AM

Editing the files without permission is and always has been a punishable offense.  The coding that we do took nearly a year to get permission for and we have to show them the source every single plugin release.


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#89 WolfTri

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 05:56 AM

Editing the files without permission is and always has been a punishable offense.  The coding that we do took nearly a year to get permission for and we have to show them the source every single plugin release.

Then the argument does not stand lol. It's illegal, end of story. The things mentioned by the CMs in that post are only exceptions, and need to be interpreted strictly. Straying even a little bit from their examples would mean that it is illegal.


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#90 ShinobiEX3

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 06:07 AM

Play without macros, RCX, and voice communicating software. That is how it was originally intended. 
 
The game is old and modifications have been made through time. It evolves. Most of the things that us "humans" create/use are fixes to problems that the "almighty" devs failed to fix. For example, fixing the BM or was it the dev intention to have a broken system?


Not your game not ur problem. Lol. Ur just a player stay in ur role and play the game. Voice ur opinions. But use outside programs on a video game that the devs intended to not have, if I was the creator and saw that u was doing that I'd fine ur tuckus 3 ways through Sunday lol. If the devs or the creator don't want to change something in the game, You humans, Have no right to do so simple. That's about it. Take it how you want. You may have the last word. ;)
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#91 Xellie

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 06:07 AM

Many of the arguments can be applied to mp hack. Whilst its not on the same level of offense, it is a similar one.


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#92 PervySageMarty

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 06:16 AM

Why are we still even debating about this?


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#93 WolfTri

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 06:23 AM

Why are we still even debating about this?

Coz the CMs haven't thrown us a bone yet. Although I suppose it's pointless, now that it's weekend.


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#94 needmorezleep

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 06:23 AM

people need to let anger out is why if the camera was locked like some other games id prob say get rid of it though


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#95 WolfTri

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 06:27 AM

people need to let anger out is why if the camera was locked like some other games id prob say get rid of it though

Hmm. Now that you mention it, even if you do rotate your camera angle to gain sight of one area, you consequently lose sight of another area (more often than not). If you're using greymap, you see everything all the time, without having to compensate with losing vision of another area. In this regard, it definitely sounds like it's a lot more than a mere "QoL" change, more like an exploit that gives you an *unfair* advantage.


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#96 needmorezleep

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 06:29 AM

we can have unlimited zoom though legally right? i feel bad for the map designers though some of them are pretty good like the comodo fields must give them a sad day to see whats been done to their work =(

 


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#97 DemliekCake

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 06:38 AM

unlimited zoom is stupid. You can see a recaller snapping from far away and prepare for him. Why it should be allowed in the first place? wtf?


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#98 rojoky113

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 06:42 AM

I'd like clarification on the chaos thing cause it sounds like it's being implied the greyworld edit prevents the chaos effect somehow, if so even more lol at this cheaty client somehow being allowed. The only argument I saw being made for it is "it's the same as rcx!" but I have yet to see any screenshots of rcx settings that are even close to as playable and useful as greyworld is.

Guess the staff felt like they had to cave on something or other so the group of people constantly trying to edit the client and grf in every way under the sun to give them as many advantages as possible didn't feel entirely alienated by being properly told to cut it out or gtfo for cheating like they should.


Edited by rojoky113, 06 February 2016 - 07:18 AM.

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#99 needmorezleep

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 06:48 AM

unlimited zoom is stupid. You can see a recaller snapping from far away and prepare for him. Why it should be allowed in the first place? wtf?

you can only see 14 cells or so max at a time unless you do something really bad that will get you banned


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#100 Inubashiri

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 06:49 AM

unlimited zoom is stupid. You can see a recaller snapping from far away and prepare for him. Why it should be allowed in the first place? wtf?

 
no you can't, you can see 3 cells more maybe
 

I'd like clarification on the chaos thing cause it sounds like it's being implied the greyworld edit prevents the chaos effect somehow, if so even more lol at this cheaty client somehow being allowed. The only argument I saw being made for it is "it's the same as rcx!" but I have yet to see any screenshots of rcx settings that are even close to as playable and useful as greyworld is.

Guess the staff felt like they had to cave on something or other so the group of people constantly trying to edit the client and grf in every way under the sun to give them as many advantages as ppssible didn't feel entirely alienated by being properly told to cut it out or gtfo for cheating like they should.


There was once a version that did if I recall but it was a long time ago.

I'm honestly putting my foot down on this issue and don't care if people say bias but really most of this crap is not necessary what so ever to play unless you're purposely trying to gain an advantage over another in which case how can you pass the laugh test of being a serious competitive player. "it'll attract new players", I really want to know if you practiced that bit in the mirror first.

 

This seems entirely appropriate for this topic:

 


Edited by Inubashiri, 06 February 2016 - 07:05 AM.

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