178 replies to this topic

[blackCROSSCY]

yes. 500K cannon spears. Make the headgear +12 and change meg to Bako and you're still gonna end up with 350K, more or less.

[ChakriGuard]

Oh. My bad xD I really actually thought he referred to crush strike haha.

Anyway, Future Bio 5 headgear actually boost cannon spear to pretty absurdly high damage levels too. See this image by a RG in twRO

http://truth.bahamut...577e4d42b6d.PNG

 

More love for Cannon spear \ ^o^ /

 

Shoo ... C. spear needs to have its 2 seconds cooldown removed /gg

[Ashuckel]

Even with the headgear, 350k without megs only during BP proc

[mrricebox]

it is wayyy easier to position bug if you ride the chicken. Try mobbing in hardrock mamoth map with rg. 
You can feel the difference between on and off chicken. Heck, sometime you cant even use bwing :x

I'm well aware of this, but it's not even position bug half the time. Sometimes it just straight up misses random targets in its AOE path. Ex: I have 8 monsters lined up in a perfect horizontal line inside the skill's AOE, a random 2 monsters inside avoid the skill completely. And it's not predictable either, happens randomly.

 

Oh. My bad xD I really actually thought he referred to crush strike haha.

Anyway, Future Bio 5 headgear actually boost cannon spear to pretty absurdly high damage levels too. See this image by a RG in twRO

http://truth.bahamut...577e4d42b6d.PNG

lol I didn't even consider that they have the same acronym. Much like Genesis Ray and ghostring. But yeah 500k CS damage is already manageable here, but you need BP proc and probably some megs.

More love for Cannon spear \ ^o^ /

 

Shoo ... C. spear needs to have its 2 seconds cooldown removed /gg

Hell yes. I always hated OB anyways.

[ChakriGuard]

Sorry for referring to your post late. Just wanted to reply to you that I am aware of what I am posting. CS and EB are actually comparable skills that has both their perks and cons, where  facts actually lean towards EB being better for a long term DPS, while CS just has a strong one time burst. You may see what I mean below:


Cast time: CS has a fixed 1 second cast time, while Exceed Break has 7seconds variable cast time. While you might think that 7 seconds is hefty, it is entirely possible to remove it, which you can never do with CS. (Cast reduc gears, Hawk Eye, Magic Strings, list goes on...). They are entirely comparable based on preferences. CS is interruptable similar to EB, so no difference there. The big difference here, however, is that CS has a 30 seconds reuse time while EB only has a 1 second after cast delay (which can be removed through Magic strings too!).

Damage potential: Exceed Break's damage potential is not too far off from CS with a mjolnir able to give you a 7000% damage modifer (Doom slayer gives you the same modifier for basically 500K), or 5740% using everyone's favourite cheap choice of hunting spear. The best part is EB doesnt even require any upgrade on the weapon to hit such a high percentage. CS may be able to hit more, but that would require very expensive high upgrades. A standard +12 weapon, which is already pretty hefty on the price, for example, would give 7800% (adding 600 from watk+weight). Putting a realistic figure of +14 for god-like gears here gives you 8600%. However, if you use just a +9 weapon here, your damage drops to 6600% only.

 

Cost to Cast: EB has a 10% movement speed penalty (we all know this isnt a big deal with speed potions). CS, on the other hand, requires you to make a rune to cast it, while you can only bring 20 of each time. Runes are heavy as well, weighing 10 per rune. Additionally, CS breaks your weapon at a 20% chance, which does not happen for EB. 

Conclusion:
As you can see, EB has a very easy to achieve high damage modifier of 5740% or even 7000%, while CS has a wider range of modifiers that can be stronger but takes a very hefty upgrade pricing to acquire. Moreover, CS breaks your weapon and requires a rune to cast, while also has a hefty 30 seconds reuse time. EB, on the other hand, has no such downsides and is entirely spammable. In just a matter of five seconds, EB's DPS has entirely thrashed CS. The only upside, is that if you're looking for a one time magic figure (which is not representative of DPS), Crush strike hurts more.

 

 

It is better if you dont compare RK to RG especially CS to EB.

In what situation are you talking about? PvM or PvP/WoE? I assume you're talking about the latter because no one in the right mind would use CS/EB to grind. In WoE, EB is strong but not OP. To make EB somewhat hurts, you need to sacrifice a lot of gears and stats ie intensive crit damage gears and 120 luck which leaves you fragile ie glass cannon. To make EB significantly hurts, you need the hammer and inspiration. You also need tons of buffs, fun time to keep trace with 29381293+ buffs. EB is not all beautifully good as you see in my WoE videos or other videos that you've seen it (otherwise, there would be a lot of crit RGs right?)

 

My WoE rule: If your hit does not hurt (kill enemies in game), then it is not a hit. I learnt this in my martial art/self defense school and I applied to game. In comparison, I dont have to play RK to know that CS hits much harder than EB. Doesnt matter if CS has 30 seconds to reuse or it has a chance to break the weapon. CS mostly one shots a target (efficient) and EB doesnt (inefficient). On top of that, most people in WoE use auto pot which means if you can spam EB on a target as much as you want until you get masq'ed and die. That person just easily tanks your EB and lives on. Why dont RKs use CS then if it is better than EB? Simply RK have DB with is even more OP than EB.

 

(Crit) EB wouldnt even be a thing if I didnt start using it in iRO WoE because I felt that VP and OP suck dicks in WoE. Strange enough, when I was new to RG, all RG veterans I seek for advices told me if I wanted to be a battle RG, then use VP and OB. If EB was originally OP or better than CS, many RGs would use it already and not to suffer themselves to play FS. As far as I remember, I was the only battle RG running around in WoE hitting people with C. spear and crit EB combo back in early 2013. EB is strong and like other skills, can be made stronger with trade offs.

 

In the end, RK uses DB to wipe AoE, then use CS to clean up the left-over mother -_-ers.

[DemliekCake]

Even with the headgear, 350k without megs only during BP proc

maybe you can use +12 d.eddga to close the gap? that headgear is great for mobbing rg because you can turn up your reflect, pull a bunch of mob, then cast OB/CS when it proc. It can proc rather easily with reflect.

[blackCROSSCY]

It is better if you dont compare RK to RG especially CS to EB.

In what situation are you talking about? PvM or PvP/WoE? I assume you're talking about the latter because no one in the right mind would use CS/EB to grind. In WoE, EB is strong but not OP. To make EB somewhat hurts, you need to sacrifice a lot of gears and stats ie intensive crit damage gears and 120 luck which leaves you fragile ie glass cannon. To make EB significantly hurts, you need the hammer and inspiration. You also need tons of buffs, fun time to keep trace with 29381293+ buffs. EB is not all beautifully good as you see in my WoE videos or other videos that you've seen it (otherwise, there would be a lot of crit RGs right?)

 

My WoE rule: If your hit does not hurt (kill enemies in game), then it is not a hit. I learnt this in my martial art/self defense school and I applied to game. In comparison, I dont have to play RK to know that CS hits much harder than EB. Doesnt matter if CS has 30 seconds to reuse or it has a chance to break the weapon. CS mostly one shots a target (efficient) and EB doesnt (inefficient). On top of that, most people in WoE use auto pot which means if you can spam EB on a target as much as you want until you get masq'ed and die. That person just easily tanks your EB and lives on. Why dont RKs use CS then if it is better than EB? Simply RK have DB with is even more OP than EB.

 

(Crit) EB wouldnt even be a thing if I didnt start using it in iRO WoE because I felt that VP and OP suck dicks in WoE. Strange enough, when I was new to RG, all RG veterans I seek for advices told me if I wanted to be a battle RG, then use VP and OB. If EB was originally OP or better than CS, many RGs would use it already and not to suffer themselves to play FS. As far as I remember, I was the only battle RG running around in WoE hitting people with C. spear and crit EB combo back in early 2013. EB is strong and like other skills, can be made stronger with trade offs.

 

In the end, RK uses DB to wipe AoE, then use CS to clean up the left-over mother -_-ers.

 

I get your pains Chakri. DB RKs are OP. I know that. Why dont you join me in my proposal so we can convince new players (if ever any), to join the Sword side and not DB, so we may ease some of your pains as well

*** I 100% do not WOE. I play RO for instances and jsut chill around, so it is in PVM perspective. Dot-A is my to-go for man to man action.

Crush Strike is a viable MVP tool. I use it all the time to one shot low MVPs. Also, crush strike hurts a lot because enchant blade is applied to it since it's a normal attack. It's pretty much THE ONLY physical skill for RKs that actually hurt. Similar to you, i also sacrifice all my defense in PVM with all crit and attack gears just to hit hard. There are also alot of buffs you need to use as RK playing the sword, not DB too. We actually need to use all dem runes :v

Edited by blackCROSSCY, 09 March 2016 - 09:46 AM.

[ChakriGuard]

I get your pains Chakri. DB RKs are OP. I know that. Why dont you join me in my proposal so we can convince new players (if ever any), to join the Sword side and not DB, so we may ease some of your pains as well

*** I 100% do not WOE. I play RO for instances and jsut chill around, so it is in PVM perspective. Dot-A is my to-go for man to man action.

Crush Strike is a viable MVP tool. I use it all the time to one shot low MVPs. Also, crush strike hurts a lot because enchant blade is applied to it since it's a normal attack. It's pretty much THE ONLY physical skill for RKs that actually hurt. Similar to you, i also sacrifice all my defense in PVM with all crit and attack gears just to hit hard. There are also alot of buffs you need to use as RK playing the sword, not DB too. We actually need to use all dem runes :v

 

I prefer to fly alone because I am Chakri D:<

 

Anyway just wanted to say what I have in my head. Good luck trying to convince or make changes though. May force be with you

[DemliekCake]

1.Why dont RKs use CS then if it is better than EB? Simply RK have DB with is even more OP than EB.

 

2.If EB was originally OP or better than CS, many RGs would use it already and not to suffer themselves to play FS. As far as I remember, I was the only battle RG running around in WoE hitting people with C. spear and crit EB combo back in early 2013. EB is strong and like other skills, can be made stronger with trade offs.

1. Most rk dont use CS because most rk is db build. For CS setup, if you want it to hurt, you will need to use almost the same gear and stats (120luk) as EB rg, except for the weapon choice.

As amazing as DB build is, its dps is very weak if you dont have string or 2kiels (or ndl :B  ). Lately, i feel that if you dont have tao, your db wont really hurt that much. You will be better off spamming db with quad status + water db to slow down enemy rush so that your sura/wl/ranger can take them off.

2. This is because most people like to blindly follow other people build. They dont really put any effort to discover a new build until someone like you, who is very passionate and stay true to your own playstyle to show them the way. Same goes for blackCross and his Rk.
 

[mrricebox]

My WoE rule: If your hit does not hurt (kill enemies in game), then it is not a hit. I learnt this in my martial art/self defense school and I applied to game.

Just saiyan, you probably didn't need martial arts school to tell you that you need to hurt the opponent to win the fight...

[ChakriGuard]

Just saiyan, you probably didn't need martial arts school to tell you that you need to hurt the opponent to win the fight...

 

Sometimes you dont need to hurt the opponent to win the fight. People can just talk and solve the problem. So I think I needed to be told that hurting people is needed to win the fight ... maybe :v

[RaveMaster]

Sometimes you dont need to hurt the opponent to win the fight. People can just talk and solve the problem. So I think I needed to be told that hurting people is needed to win the fight ... maybe :v

 

doesn't apply in WOE m8

[mrricebox]

Sometimes you dont need to hurt the opponent to win the fight. People can just talk and solve the problem. So I think I needed to be told that hurting people is needed to win the fight ... maybe :v

Trust me, if you're dealing with drunk people in downtown Edmonton, you NEED violence to win the fight.

[BookishBrenda]

Dot-A is my to-go for man to man action.

 

Wait, What...

[MoyuZ777]

This talk is nice and everything but where is Oda or Camp?

Can't get anything done without them

[KudanSeishirou]

It is better if you dont compare RK to RG especially CS to EB.

In what situation are you talking about? PvM or PvP/WoE? I assume you're talking about the latter because no one in the right mind would use CS/EB to grind. In WoE, EB is strong but not OP. To make EB somewhat hurts, you need to sacrifice a lot of gears and stats ie intensive crit damage gears and 120 luck which leaves you fragile ie glass cannon. To make EB significantly hurts, you need the hammer and inspiration. You also need tons of buffs, fun time to keep trace with 29381293+ buffs. EB is not all beautifully good as you see in my WoE videos or other videos that you've seen it (otherwise, there would be a lot of crit RGs right?)

 

My WoE rule: If your hit does not hurt (kill enemies in game), then it is not a hit. I learnt this in my martial art/self defense school and I applied to game. In comparison, I dont have to play RK to know that CS hits much harder than EB. Doesnt matter if CS has 30 seconds to reuse or it has a chance to break the weapon. CS mostly one shots a target (efficient) and EB doesnt (inefficient). On top of that, most people in WoE use auto pot which means if you can spam EB on a target as much as you want until you get masq'ed and die. That person just easily tanks your EB and lives on. Why dont RKs use CS then if it is better than EB? Simply RK have DB with is even more OP than EB.

 

(Crit) EB wouldnt even be a thing if I didnt start using it in iRO WoE because I felt that VP and OP suck dicks in WoE. Strange enough, when I was new to RG, all RG veterans I seek for advices told me if I wanted to be a battle RG, then use VP and OB. If EB was originally OP or better than CS, many RGs would use it already and not to suffer themselves to play FS. As far as I remember, I was the only battle RG running around in WoE hitting people with C. spear and crit EB combo back in early 2013. EB is strong and like other skills, can be made stronger with trade offs.

 

In the end, RK uses DB to wipe AoE, then use CS to clean up the left-over mother -_-ers.

 

I get your pains Chakri. DB RKs are OP. I know that. Why dont you join me in my proposal so we can convince new players (if ever any), to join the Sword side and not DB, so we may ease some of your pains as well

*** I 100% do not WOE. I play RO for instances and jsut chill around, so it is in PVM perspective. Dot-A is my to-go for man to man action.

Crush Strike is a viable MVP tool. I use it all the time to one shot low MVPs. Also, crush strike hurts a lot because enchant blade is applied to it since it's a normal attack. It's pretty much THE ONLY physical skill for RKs that actually hurt. Similar to you, i also sacrifice all my defense in PVM with all crit and attack gears just to hit hard. There are also alot of buffs you need to use as RK playing the sword, not DB too. We actually need to use all dem runes :v

EB is kinda have the same damage with CS in WOE (hammer EB, spear EB is joke =p). the only thing that makes CS better than EB is Thurisuz (not enchant blade) makes it's damage triples with 15% chance. CS raw damage itself just about 80k~100k more damage with +12 Glorious weapon last time I try. and for chakri since he uses Megs, he basically running around doing crush strike with +12 glorious weapon with no cast time =V

[Icarus05]

Can i get this straight, for those DPS type RK who wants to have "skills"

 

I'm also a DPS Type RK and honestly, i belittle Bowling bash because its useless unless you use a high forged swords, its not a skill that can kill a player in a woe setting especially if you are facing a player which came from malay, philippines or any country that has a record of winning or placing in a RWC setting

 

Q: is BB useless

A: It's not useless but it will help you lowering the life of your target and also, its knockback effect

 

Q. what happens if this thing have no cooldown

A: remember how GX spams the Rolling cutter or cross impact, that's what will happen, DPS RK with bowling bash is not entirely effective BUT LK WITH BOWLING BASH IS OP, I MEAN SUPER OP, THEY CAN SPAM UP DAMAGES 5K TO 10K PER HIT,AND THIS IS WHY MAKING IT SPAMMABLE IS BIG NO

 

so overall:

I'm not with you regarding this, BB is OP in TE when it became spammable, I promised to you, you will ruin the game itself,you know wy AS has cooldown, because AS is very powerful even DB was nerf because of it, and DB is not always powerful, i face a lot of DB spammers and non of them can kill me easily, thanks to biotata armor and my crushing strike skill 

[blackCROSSCY]

hi Icarus, you have just made the same mistake of not reading my post. I have had this discussion for pages already.

LKs cannot spam BB in Renewal, even without the cooldown. The summary is this:
1) there is a fixed 0.35seconds cast time
2) adding on the variable cast time of 0.35 seconds,
3) lvl99s cant have 120 base dex or use temporal dex
4) and that renewal instant cast requires 265 dex
5) LKs cannot have 193 aspd

Hence, the max speed a Legitimate LK can spam is ~2 BB per second, which is the same with or without cool down.Even if you believe 2 casts per second is OP, this is already what no delay cheaters can do now, except you can't even tell whether he cheated or not.

Any LK spamming BB at extreme speeds instantly makes it clear that he is cheating. And last but not least, I do not care if it is disabled solely in WoE maps. It's not right to spoil an entire skill usable in many area solely for people cheating in a much smaller aspect of the game. Especially so when the game design has it such that RKs have no other spammable skills (hence they continue to need to use BB), and that this is a custom iRO only addition that other servers do not have.

Edited by blackCROSSCY, 09 March 2016 - 05:45 PM.

[DemliekCake]

current meta of wp forum post: trying to argue about a post that they didnt read.

[Sirolrex]

It's not a cooldown.  It's more like a fixed cast as sacrement and temporal dex boots allows you to spam it very quickly. 

[blackCROSSCY]

...It is a cool down, you are mistaken.

 

I have shown it in my very first video 1.1 and 1.2 that even with max aspd and almost 0 cast time, I cannot spam more than 2 in a second.

There are both fixed cast times and the iRO custom cool down in BB. My video shows me using dex120 and temporal dex so the cast time on BB is almost negligible, yet after each cast there is a cat paw for 0.5 seconds (this is a cool down symbol, similar to IB). The cooldown is also not reduceable by after cast delay gears, I proved that in 1.2 as well.

 

[Ryuuzan]

im a spear build... can we have some love for Hundred Spears? please remove or reduce that god awful 3 sec after-cast delay...pls pls pls.... me begging on my legs here..

[StunTosMati]

its will make GM head hurt haha

[5416131108035252313]

Rk already OP let's make it even OP 

 

Comparing 2nd class skill to a third class skill..

[Azumatsu]

can't spam? i think they forgot what string for