498 replies to this topic

[Oshiiii]

What if it's like 1% def penetration and .5% per refine? Would you still object?

[Toxn]

I would say if that was the case, it should be an entirely separate shadow set (id, name and all), to avoid cross server confusions.

[WarlockFier]

I am going to leave my last post here in this thread and conclude it. I believe some people are just flame baiting and arguing for the heck of it than trying to bring an actual discussion onto the plate, dodging questions and things that has already been explained and instigating personal attacks. Not interested in giving them anymore attention and my time when they deserve none of it. 

 

 

I think this forum user said it quite well, so I'm just going to quote it again. :u

 

Easy:
Want people to quit because they don't want this to be that much of p2w? Introduce the set.
Want new players to quit after a short time because the game is either too easy because they can pay or too hard because they can't pay? Introduce the set.
Want the game to lose its grindy charm? Introduce the set.
Want PvM rewards to become less atractive because now everyone could be OP without any real effort? Introduce the set.

Now:
Want to introduce the set but don't want to break the game? At least change it, making it less OP.
Want people to try more classes with which they can actually play on the same grounds as others (to have the same chances, or at least the opportunity of a fairer experience)? Introduce balance patches, not broken shadow gears.
Want people to spend more money on the kafra shop? Introduce new costumes, sprites, cute things, NOT OP GEARS.
Want to introduce new harder instances that need more advanced gear in order to be completed? Introduce new gears that aren't OP and actually require effort to get, and keep things interesting.
Want a balanced game? Keep putting effort on the balance patches; as someone already said, balance the classes, the skills, don't break the game through broken gears.

 

At the end though... If the GMs DO implement these sets, (which I wouldn't be surprise even if they do and I wouldn't be fighting against it anymore then, I almost didn't even want to bother anymore this time around), good luck and have fun running the server to the ground, cater towards those who have ruined pRO the same way. It was fun while it lasted!

Edited by WarlockFier, 15 June 2016 - 08:07 PM.

[inspectortrix]

Correct me if i'm wrong about this draw backs of both items. Look at it at what the game have PvP/PvM/WoE. Not just PvM, not just PvP/WoE.

Samurai Spectre Card
- lose HP
- disable HP recovery

Penetration Set
- requires the whole set to be effectively used
- requires different weapon of the set
- PVM environment only
- requires certain upgrade levels to optimize

I didn't include the diffirence between a card and a costume because both are different mechanics of the game. And that would be either pros and cons depending on how you look at it.

To optimize their usage. You must over come the draw backs.

In terms of balancing classes, i don't know what are we talking about here. It's like making a character which is designed as support becoming killer classes. What i don' like is releasing items which bypasses other characters. HBP which has greed, greed should be a unique skill of the blacksmith. Token of siegfried, resurrection should be a unique skill of the priest. Releasing items that contributes in making other classes useless is what i think that causes these imbalances.

[Joatmon]

So when we gonna stop talking about the penetration set and tell them what sort of effects we want to see in the cash shop???


Honestly I'd like to see them create sets that improve something like performer buffs or Shadow Chaser PvM.

Performers are kinda boring to play right now because of their binary playstyle, but if you were to make more of their buffs actually WORTH something, and make them more interactive rather than just press a button and walk around. Imagine Windmill Rush coming with a much larger ATK bonus or Frigg's song giving much more regeneration to make them a supplemental heal.

And Shadow Chasers, while wildly amazing in PvP environments, suffer from horribly boring PvM play. Have you heard of a Shadow Chaser MvPing past low and low-mid tier MvPs? A bunch of different shadow sets to allow different and more fun ways of leveling and MvPing in the PvE realms would make more people play the class, since it's not played as much by casual players cause more casual players don't PvP. Like, ASS is a fun build, but you can barely level with it and you're severely element limited on the mobs you can kill, a set that allows more reliable AoE damage on a Chaser would be dandy af.

[Ashuckel]

Valkyre Dagger[4](from jRO) is a good one for ASS shadow chasers  and oboros ))



It's honestly funny to see here ppl that fought against the Oda Balloon +1aspd effect, wich resulted in being nerfed to 1%, that are now pro a cash shop gear wich surpasses the potential of an MVP card, da heck.

[Joatmon]

Valkyre Dagger[4](from jRO) is a good one for ASS shadow chasers  and oboros ))



It's honestly funny to see here ppl that fought against the Oda Balloon +1aspd effect, wich resulted in being nerfed to 1%, that are now pro a cash shop gear wich surpasses the potential of an MVP card, da heck.

 

 

I really enjoy the themes of the SC class, but leveling with them just isn't fun. I mean, I know there's plenty of ways to do it, but none are as efficient as other classes.  


I just want them to make shadow sets tailored to less played classes and builds, but of course because of what we've seen kRO do with the class hats (Goddamn AHB), we can't really ask for any shadow sets for the more powerful classes.

So... Shadow Chaser, Arch Bishop, Performer, Mech, Warlocks, and Royal Guards considering they all have things that can be improved upon to make them more fun for different player types.

And when I say AB, I mean more on their soloing capabilities. I mean, keep them subpar cause leveling as a party's healer should always be their fastest method, but allow them soloing capabilities when they don't want to deal with parties. Like with SCs, I love ABs, but their playstyle isn't always conducive to what I want to be doing. Ask any healer from any MMO and they'll all tell you that healing can be one of the most arduous tasks ever.

[ShinobiEX3]

Simple math.

10% damae increase vs boss monsters(wich is the item you are talking about) will increase in your atk status. Lets say you have a weapon with 200 atk, 100 str and 200 atk from equipment. This would give you 300 weapon attack and 200 equip attack, a total sum of 500. This 10% comes here, giving you 10% based on your attack its now giving you 50 atk, so then you have a total of 550 atk.

For defense penetration is quite simple too. Lets supose an enemy with 200 def. This gives you exactly 20% physical damage reduction. So, if you were suposed to hit 10k, you only hit 8k. But now if you pierce this defense your attack would deal a whole +25% overall damage than it normay do (8000 +25%=10000). You got it now? If the enemy has 50% physical reduction, piercing this defense makes you do double the damage, and the overpowerness just keeps increasing. What do you think its more powerfull, some extra atk to calculate your damage or increasing your damage as a whole?

 

 

they say mvp shadow sets can ruin the game,  penetration,  is a part of an mvp set ,  ss card uses the prefix penetration to ignore defense of all monsters,

 

but the penetration set requires different shadow items per race.  there's also a magical version too.

 

i hope it's not a mass ban on all mvp shadow gears... in the future mvps get harder to deal with as you solo..

 

you would need sets to solo the mvps effectively. 

 

As i have said before Im against all shadow gears that comes to this server If it impedes actual updates and bug fixes to make the game move forward. Thats my stand point SIMPLE. Everyone here can dance around wheather it should come or not I dont care. Cause as far as i see it,neither of you will reach a common ground. So trash the talk since it will never end, and focus on real issues like; when will we get cought up on patches and bug fixes? When will you fix the kafra shop the right way? When will the in house mini devs do in house changes to woe to make it more enjoyable? When will the WP team fix their RO website and be constantly updated? When will I get enough zeny to own gears for my gx? Yea Important stuff like that. Shadow gears or not, the game is still playable. But it will die faster if we dont get cought up with the updates. Shadow gears will not and cant do that for us. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by ShinobiEX3, 15 June 2016 - 08:27 PM.

[Oshiiii]

Correct me if i'm wrong about this draw backs of both items. Look at it at what the game have PvP/PvM/WoE. Not just PvM, not just PvP/WoE.

Samurai Spectre Card
- lose HP
- disable HP recovery

Penetration Set
- requires the whole set to be effectively used
- requires different weapon of the set
- PVM environment only
- requires certain upgrade levels to optimize

 

Samurai Spectre is obtainable through a 0.02% chance card drop and that comes with having to find the MvP then killing it (If someone else hasn't already). He respawns every 91-100 minutes. Competition with other players hunting the MvP. The chances of finding that card is very slim yet rewarding. If you just throw the penetration set into the cash shop, all you'd have to do is throw out some cash or buy it with Zs from another player.

 

Shadow sets are worn in a whole new equipment slot. They further enhance a player's capabilities. They wouldn't be at the least difficult to add into your equipment build. These shadow equips are also 0 weight, making it not difficult to pretty much carry them all.

 

Samurai Spectre card disables HP recovery and drains 666 HP

The penetration set doesn't do any of that jazz.

 

By far the penetration set is superior and hella easy to obtain.

[CadburyChocolate]

Samurai Spectre is obtainable through a 0.02% chance card drop and that comes with having to find the MvP then killing it (If someone else hasn't already). He respawns every 91-100 minutes. Competition with other players hunting the MvP. The chances of finding that card is very slim yet rewarding. If you just throw the penetration set into the cash shop, all you'd have to do is throw out some cash or buy it with Zs from another player.

 

Shadow sets are worn in a whole new equipment slot. They further enhance a player's capabilities. They wouldn't be at the least difficult to add into your equipment build. These shadow equips are also 0 weight, making it not difficult to pretty much carry them all.

 

Samurai Spectre card disables HP recovery and drains 666 HP

The penetration set doesn't do any of that jazz.

 

By far the penetration set is superior and hella easy to obtain.

You buy SS for PVP/WOE content, penetration set otherwise. SS should be definitely hard to get only for that sole reason

 

AND FYI, penetration set does disable HP recovery and drains 666 HP, it just doesnt do anything when unequipped AFAIK.

 

Icepick is far more superior than SS and penetration set. works both on MVP and PVP, thana effect etc and is very easy to get than the other two. Both totally has overlapping PURPOSE to IP unlike SS and Pen set which totally HAVE DIFFERENT PURPOSE

 

Comparing those items is actually a bad idea since it will later bring up bad arguments if we look at the totality of the game

[Toxn]

Icepick is far more superior than SS and penetration set.

 

No.

[Ashuckel]

Didnt i posted the comparison of an Ice Pick setup and penetration set setup on page 1 or 2 already, goddamit

Edited by Ashuckel, 15 June 2016 - 09:16 PM.

[Oshiiii]

 

1.) AND FYI, penetration set does disable HP recovery and drains 666 HP, it just doesnt do anything when unequipped AFAIK.

 

2.) Icepick is far more superior than SS and penetration set. works both on MVP and PVP, thana effect etc and is very easy to get than the other two. Both totally has overlapping PURPOSE to IP unlike SS and Pen set which totally HAVE DIFFERENT PURPOSE

 

1.) No, it doesn't.

 

2.) Not everyone is going to run icepick for their main weapon let alone able to equip icepick or have it be efficient. 

 

That statement is also invalid. Please note the two posts below mine.

Edited by Oshiiii, 15 June 2016 - 09:27 PM.

[ShinobiEX3]

Ashuckel, on 28 Aug 2015 - 08:14 AM, said:

Simple math.

10% damae increase vs boss monsters(wich is the item you are talking about) will increase in your atk status. Lets say you have a weapon with 200 atk, 100 str and 200 atk from equipment. This would give you 300 weapon attack and 200 equip attack, a total sum of 500. This 10% comes here, giving you 10% based on your attack its now giving you 50 atk, so then you have a total of 550 atk.

For defense penetration is quite simple too. Lets supose an enemy with 200 def. This gives you exactly 20% physical damage reduction. So, if you were suposed to hit 10k, you only hit 8k. But now if you pierce this defense your attack would deal a whole +25% overall damage than it normay do (8000 +25%=10000). You got it now? If the enemy has 50% physical reduction, piercing this defense makes you do double the damage, and the overpowerness just keeps increasing. What do you think its more powerfull, some extra atk to calculate your damage or increasing your damage as a whole?

 

[Ashuckel]

Calculated against Brianarea(or w/e the name, 1st mvp of DT, 264 def), Ice Pick+ Physical Set vs FQL+Penetration Set, with my current setup.

FQL+Penetration set does an average of 42% more damage when +13 Eddga is not proccing, and 26% more when its proccing.
On a DD Crit setup the difference rises to 54% when not eddga, 28% when active.

If we take Drake out of FQL, it will only deal about 10% less damage than Ice Pick without proc, and deal 1% more when proc is active.
If the enemy was medium or small, Penetration Set would flat out win from the very begining(less wATK penalty).
 

 

[ShinobiEX3]

seaechiowai :Man, +1 ASPD is serious business. I bet you guys will be rioting when we get Excellion armor/garment update. The game is dying, enjoy it while you can.   Kadelia answers this below....

 

Excellion suit and wing don't look horrible to me but I could be looking at the wrong item scripts. But I think you're being sarcastic. If pRO is a boiled frog its because no objection was raised when the temperature was raised one degree at a time. On iRO we aren't stupid and resist every degree that goes up, which is possibly why iRO is among the global partners that have NOT tanked.

 

 

Hotel: Mate, if making money from a video game was as easy as putting the most op and broken   inside cash boxes why do you think more games (especially the successful ones) haven't done it by now.  Kadelia answers below....

 

pRO n_n

(Both an example of a game service that has done it... and an example of why it should not be done)

 

 

Coming from you kaddy id expect you to be the one against this penetration set. Seeing as how you were in the past.

 

   "pRO did not JUMP from balanced items to MVPs in the cash shop. It was a bridge built by power creep exactly like this aspd +1 lower. How you can be blind to that is baffling. "

 

Yet IRO wants to implement "MVP" like shadow gears to this server  which will then fall into getting actual cards eventually in the long run just like PRO. And the people who did play PRO and benefit from the kafra mvps and gods, they know this. Thats why they want the penetration set.

Edited by ShinobiEX3, 15 June 2016 - 10:02 PM.

[EveGenesis]

I'm just gonna add my points and view in, i don't really care much about argueing with people and if the gm/cm see this good. If not whatever.

 

If you're going to introduce the set you will probably (or will) kill some of the content you already have for the current player, "hunting Mvps" yeah yeah people will say putting mvp carded effect shadow gear won't affect mvper, but really?

 

- Mvp carded shadow gear lower the value of actual mvp cards. This would kill off people motivation to hunt mvp, yeah they will be mvp hunter still but what is the point when you can buy it from cash. If one shadow gears enter, more will come.

 

- currently there is over 100-200 mvp (don't bother to  count) some mvp only one person hunt them and for other there is a few, so if i have to count, there would probably be "at least" 100 mvper but that is the least i am estimating it to be around 200, if you introduce this shadow gear. you would essentially kill off the "mvper population". (which is one of the content currently keeping the player you have) They farm for years, some just started off. YES shadow gear affect is not the best (or weaker) but what's the point of getting a mvp card that drop 0.02% when you can just buy a substitute that can give almost the same effect for about 100m zeny? for 500m zeny? yeah it will be lower priced than the mvp card anyways and people would just go for the cheap substitute and many of your map will be even more dead because no one even want to hunt the mvp anymore.

 

Edit: when you're asleep or away there will be people mvping (so i'm sure there is at least around 200 people mvping) ( so if you feel like there isn't that many, you just probably didn't see them because of timezone)

 

- You would probably lose half of the player that mvp (think of the long term cost over some shadow gear that could only bring you short-term profit) the other half probably would just do other stuff

 

- People can argue mvp loots that are not card are valueable too, well sure they are they can probably buy you 1500 white potion i guess, which i guess is a lot. Not all loots are worth 1500 white potion some a bit more some a bit less but it will be no where near 20000 white potion worth. Jokes aside they will not give you much anyways, the only most valueable thing from mvp is probably just the card.

 

Other thoughts

- Do we really need shadow gear? KRO introduce it to beat their 165+ content but over the past year we did their 165+ content without it. 

 

- For those that said yeah it will help weaker player to become stronger and will be able to compete with higher gear player. I'm just gonna say weaker player + shadow gear = stronger, then strong player + shadow gear = ??? it will still make weak player weak and make stronger player even more stronger. It's just that now the weak player have i dunno 1.5x increase to their damage? strong player get that increase as well, so the gap is still the same

 

- Yeah yeah people said that if you wear shadow gear you can change your equip but, isn't mvp suppose to be there so that you have a weakness? if you get taoed armor you will be weak to frozen status, then you need to get 100 mdef to mitigate that which in turn make your damage lower and that's more balanced. Let's just say you get unfrozen set (which is already there) you can wear a tao + damage gear (without any weakness). (i don't care if people say it's only pvp or woe, i'm just giving an example) (there is so many other mvp card/shadow gear but i am not gonna elaborate)

 

- Another thing is that you could just wear one mvp effect shadow gear and wear another on your armor (gear whatever) If you're telling me a class can do 3 different types of role or build is balanced, sure i could "believe" you i guess. Before you can only wear 1 type of mvp card and only do one role or thing. (people can argue etc etc, but having one mvp card alone vs another mvp + shadow gear is different)

 

- And i have to agree with the post that is few post above me

Shadow gear > makes things easy > content too easy > get everything in a short amount of time > now a overdecked out person that has done everything has nothing to do but to wait for the next content which is probably 6 months away = what will happen while waiting 6 months? Do the same content over and over and over and over and over again? but eh didn't they beat it on the first day the new content is launch? I'm pretty sure they will stay to do the same thing for 6 months when they can beat it so easily (not that it's hard now anyways)

 

 

 

You guys can argue with my post or whatever i don't really want to be bothered with wp things or people. I just want to put in my thoughts and see if wp actually listen to people.(they could listen to shadow gear people too i guess,if they are reasonable enough) (but of course they should take in all the pro and cons first and decide))

 

I don't need salt from anyone here because i will probably never meet you guys ingame or irl, if i need salt i can get it from my cupboard in the kitchen. (if you guys are planning to be salty for whatever reason)

 

-sincerely, a person that don't own any mvp cards or any +10 and above gear that love mvping (because there is a purpose to it "for now")

 

Edited by EveGenesis, 16 June 2016 - 12:59 AM.

[CadburyChocolate]

1.) No, it doesn't.

 

2.) Not everyone is going to run icepick for their main weapon let alone able to equip icepick or have it be efficient. 

 

That statement is also invalid. Please note the two posts below mine.

1.) You clearly are not updated, it does have those penalties, revealed already at playragnarok website during the supposed to be release which was brought down by the GM later on

 

2.) Not everyone will be running Penetration Set either

 

For defense penetration is quite simple too. Lets supose an enemy with 200 def. This gives you exactly 20% physical damage reduction. So, if you were suposed to hit 10k, you only hit 8k. But now if you pierce this defense your attack would deal a whole +25% overall damage than it normay do (8000 +25%=10000). You got it now? If the enemy has 50% physical reduction, piercing this defense makes you do double the damage, and the overpowerness just keeps increasing. What do you think its more powerfull, some extra atk to calculate your damage or increasing your damage as a whole? 

Look at the classes using it, Gypsy,Maestro, Mecha double, triple the damage? AB Gene and DB Rwill still be laughing at it. GX? with the existence of Icepick which is def piercing too, i doubt if damage increase could go over 50% at optimum set-up and scenario. Ranger? they will still be able to kill what they can and still cant do what they cant. ( Soloing malangdo instance for example unlike Gene)

[CadburyChocolate]

 

seaechiowai :Man, +1 ASPD is serious business. I bet you guys will be rioting when we get Excellion armor/garment update. The game is dying, enjoy it while you can.   Kadelia answers this below....

 

 

 

Hotel: Mate, if making money from a video game was as easy as putting the most op and broken   inside cash boxes why do you think more games (especially the successful ones) haven't done it by now.  Kadelia answers below....

 

 

 

Coming from you kaddy id expect you to be the one against this penetration set. Seeing as how you were in the past.

 

   "pRO did not JUMP from balanced items to MVPs in the cash shop. It was a bridge built by power creep exactly like this aspd +1 lower. How you can be blind to that is baffling. "

 

Yet IRO wants to implement "MVP" like shadow gears to this server  which will then fall into getting actual cards eventually in the long run just like PRO. And the people who did play PRO and benefit from the kafra mvps and gods, they know this. Thats why they want the penetration set.

 

 

LOL there we go again, using pRO as an arguement. How stupid can you people be. pRO didnt even have these items, pRO didnt even create these items, and before pRO there is kRO who made and implemented this item, created the game infact. If you backread the previous post, i dont see any other pRO players saying they want these. Most of those who want this are those from chaos who have no whatsoever link to pRO.

[Nirvanna21]

LOL there we go again, using pRO as an arguement. How stupid can you people be. pRO didnt even have these items, pRO didnt even create these items, and before pRO there is kRO who made and implemented this item, created the game infact. If you backread the previous post, i dont see any other pRO players saying they want these. Most of those who want this are those from chaos who have no whatsoever link to pRO.

 

pRO is an example of letting things slide.

 

At some point it went from a normal server to one that sold things they shouldn't have.

 

We don't want the same to happen to iRO. This is not a jab at pRO players, but merely a reference to something we want to avoid.

[inspectortrix]

pRO is an example of letting things slide.

pRO is an example of absolute management power.

[meli]

Can we stop for a second, and think that you would usually need several samurai specter cards for every class you'd want to use it on, while shadow set gives you weapon freedom? The only variance using set would be the shadow weapon which shouldn't be hard to swap. It's pretty stupid. Not even getting into the tempest shadow set which would destroy the rarity of two mvp cards, one being high wiz which is the most rare and high end card for mages. I'm amazed people really ask for these sets, if you're too weak to hunt for these mvp perhaps you shouldn't have them.

[PervySageMarty]

Avoidability is bad in Riviera: the promised land, totally can screw you up when especially using EX skill on the bosses and you can't kill it in the fellswoop + you break your overdrive bar for the remainder of the fight.....

Has anyone on kRO tested this? Last i remember hearing from several players, the "mvp" shadow sets and class skill shadow sets do not work on mvp's (damaging ones at least, so the judex set means -_- against an mvp). My wuestion that sigma can probably answer later.

I personally do not want the fixed cast time balance update in, which swaps the formula around. I also do want the balance for offertorium to release you from stauses such as frozen. Many updates i want and do not want.

The thing i do point out is bio5 is completable without the penetration or tempest sets, but all classes become specified into a role, and the way i see the power hungry community here that simply rather sees damage from classes than other things, bio 5 is just going to be destructive.

A great wise man once said, "If people want to cash they cash, if they dont then dont, if people want to be perverts they perv, if they dont then grope yourself".

Such wise profound wisdom. I hope these words will allow everyone to cultivate through leaps and bounds.

[Ashuckel]

1.) You clearly are not updated, it does have those penalties, revealed already at playragnarok website during the supposed to be release which was brought down by the GM later on

2.) Not everyone will be running Penetration Set either

Look at the classes using it, Gypsy,Maestro, Mecha double, triple the damage? AB Gene and DB Rwill still be laughing at it. GX? with the existence of Icepick which is def piercing too, i doubt if damage increase could go over 50% at optimum set-up and scenario. Ranger? they will still be able to kill what they can and still cant do what they cant. ( Soloing malangdo instance for example unlike Gene)

10/10 didnt read a word

[Sigma1]

Has anyone on kRO tested this? Last i remember hearing from several players, the "mvp" shadow sets and class skill shadow sets do not work on mvp's (damaging ones at least, so the judex set means against an mvp). My wuestion that sigma can probably answer later.
 

 

Sadly Marty

 

 

Even she doesn't show her shadow equipments. but in 2.39 she switched her shadow weapon to 매직 헌팅 웨폰 쉐도우 (Magic Hunting Shadow Weapon) which combined with tempest set to ignore mdef of brute race since she faced Haitii. ( she has all 10 type of racial-mdef-ignoring shadow weapon. )

 

and this

 

 

He wore penetration set obviously.

 

Yeah. Penetration and Tempest set still work on MVPs.

Edited by Sigma1, 16 June 2016 - 02:38 AM.