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RO1 In Game Rules and Guidelines


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#151 SafelyEndangered

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 02:01 AM

Many things aren't necessary. So?

First you said there's no alternative to ragial which implied it's necessary thing to have. So I addressed otherwise. Now, with this response, I'm going to assume that you accept it's not necessary.

Hey ren, you should put ragial on vacation for a week or two, lets see how unecessary it is lol

Say that to the old time we lived through and plenty of servers out there without similar system. Don't confuse necessity with comfortability.

Why would they need to have access when every meaningful activity it can do in game is logged?

Let's say this. You give me a source code of ragial and I'll modify it for my personal gain and run. No one including WP will be able to see the difference from legit ragial version. In case you've not think it through I'll name a few features I would add to my ragial version. 1. To let it notify me immediately when some items are being vended at wrong pricing so I'm the first to grab 2. I know all your alts regardless of privacy settings you set to hide. Sure everything's logged.

Edited by SafelyEndangered, 30 November 2016 - 02:21 AM.

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#152 Ashuckel

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 02:12 AM


Say that to the old time we lived through and plenty of servers out there without similar system. Don't confuse necessity with comfortability.


Yeah, we should go back to the age where ppl didnt had electricity as well, ppl could do it back then, why not now huh?
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#153 SafelyEndangered

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 02:16 AM

You're exaggerating my words with that fallacy.
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#154 Ashuckel

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 02:39 AM

Hezberg
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#155 renouille

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 03:37 AM

First you said there's no alternative to ragial which implied it's necessary thing to have. So I addressed otherwise. Now, with this response, I'm going to assume that you accept it's not necessary.

Of course it's not necessary--but you could say that about most nice things.
It is, however, highly desirable; and the GMs (along with many other people) agree, or they would not have authorized it.
 

Let's say this. You give me a source code of ragial and I'll modify it for my personal gain and run. No one including WP will be able to see the difference from legit ragial version. In case you've not think it through I'll name a few features I would add to my ragial version. 1. To let it notify me immediately when some items are being vended at wrong pricing so I'm the first to grab 2. I know all your alts regardless of privacy settings you set to hide. Sure everything's logged.

Then it's fortunate that ragial was entrusted to responsible people who would never do that, right? I should add that both of those things you mentioned can be done without having a clearly marked bot running around.
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#156 SafelyEndangered

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 05:56 AM

entrusted to responsible people

On what basis? Their promise? I don't personally know the operator of ragial but he isn't WP's employee. With that, WP is authorizing privileges to a player to run bot with their promise "I won't do evil".

who would never do that

Not doing - who knows?
Will not do - who will know?
Without accessing to code and machine running the bot, WP can see ragial as much as common players see it. Not more.

both of those things

Just a few examples that ragial operator can use it for personal gain being unnoticed. It can do much more.

can be done without having a clearly marked bot running around.

ragial bots collect account ID, feed to ropd database then graph can be plotted. Without bot running around? I don't think so.

Edited by SafelyEndangered, 30 November 2016 - 06:02 AM.

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#157 SafelyEndangered

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 06:19 AM

Not to mention ropd's irresponsible rule that players can't request their name removed or exempted from their personal database. Took their privacy and tell them to deal with it. Cool.
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#158 Xellie

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 07:14 AM

I believe the difference is this:

 

A market indexer bot only replaces the role of one person

 

Where as public buffer bots break down the interaction between players leading to less community building.

 

If I was a GM that's what I'd think and I would most likely not support buff bots. Talk to your fellow players and make parties. It's nice.


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#159 Biggggg

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 07:23 AM

I believe the difference is this:

A market indexer bot only replaces the role of one person

Where as public buffer bots break down the interaction between players leading to less community building.

If I was a GM that's what I'd think and I would most likely not support buff bots. Talk to your fellow players and make parties. It's nice.


Or just spend 5k zeny and rest at the inn. Then you don't look like a fool on forums.
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#160 SafelyEndangered

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 07:24 AM

A market indexer bot only replaces the role of one person

Where as public buffer bots break down the interaction between players leading to less community building.

Agreed. But with this explanation, does it mean WP allows/disallows bot based on magnitude of effects the bot can cause? If so, anyone can run bot similar to ragial? - This is one point.

Another point is how WP can know that ragial has no hidden agenda?
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#161 Xellie

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 07:24 AM

Only LH inn gives something resembling a buff tho. :P


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#162 VikasMerchantf

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 07:24 AM

Or just spend 5k zeny and rest at the inn. Then you don't look like a fool on forums.

Inn dude doesnt buff u ;-;


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#163 Ashuckel

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 07:30 AM

Ppl complain abiut how ABs and support classes are cripled enough and are basically not needed since everyone else can solo anything.

Asks for a npc/bot that do this job.

Smh

Edited by Ashuckel, 30 November 2016 - 07:31 AM.

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#164 Biggggg

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 07:40 AM

Inn dude doesnt buff u ;-;


Inn dude buffs me. Sorry you save at the wrong one :(
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#165 Xellie

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 07:45 AM

good luck vmods.


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#166 Xellie

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 07:51 AM

@SafelyEndangered

 

If you want some advice, it's stop until the staff are available. Maybe you'll get a better response by pming them, but right now all that is going to happen is this thread will be cleaned and probably locked so there can be no further feedback on rules. Also don't feed the trolls. Let them be the ones that get into trouble.


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#167 Ashuckel

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 08:01 AM

Stahp '-'
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#168 VModCinnamon

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 08:03 AM

If you have nothing constructive to add then please move along, continuing the trolling tone will not be tolerated any further.

The next time I check the thread it will be sending problematic accounts into probation, so let's not reach that point.


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#169 SafelyEndangered

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 08:03 AM

constructive argument for the debate

Sorry? What has been happening in last few pages were random guys just joined to bash me. I'm the one trying to explain my question. Who's unconstructive?

keep complaining

Where? I see only my questions not complaints.

And if I say random word right now would you know what's it about?
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#170 Biggggg

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 08:06 AM

If you have nothing constructive to add then please move along, continuing the trolling tone will not be tolerated any further.
The next time I check the thread it will be sending problematic accounts into probation, so let's not reach that point.


Love you too ;)
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#171 SafelyEndangered

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 08:55 AM

Thx vmod for trying to keep this constructive and civil.
Recap: For WP, what makes you trust ragial operator that he isn't doing and will not do more than what it should?

And what would you say about ROPD doesn't allow players to opt-out from their database while privacy is forcefully taken?
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#172 Xellie

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 09:07 AM

So about greyworld. Shouldn't that be mentioned in the OP or is it less important than the one page spread on emblems?


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#173 beaupoem

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 09:09 AM

Then it's fortunate that ragial was entrusted to responsible people who would never do that, right? I should add that both of those things you mentioned can be done without having a clearly marked bot running around.

 

Thx vmod for trying to keep this constructive and civil.
Recap: For WP, what makes you trust ragial operator that he isn't doing and will not do more than what it should?

And what would you say about ROPD doesn't allow players to opt-out from their database while privacy is forcefully taken?

 

i believe renouille already answered your question. she's one of the people who helps run ragial, brews about 100k slims a day (without botting! says Campitor), and is a highly visible forum member who would be held accountable if she were in fact found to be botting for personal gain.

 

and stop with the "forcefully taken" -_-. you can claim your account and hide all your info. and what renouille means is that people can already "forcefully take" all your info without you knowing it because they don't have to put it on a publicly viewable website like ROPD for your viewing pleasure. and THAT is where your real concern should lie, not with ragial and ROPD.


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#174 Xellie

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 09:13 AM

I've always hated ROPD for the same reasons, but you can bet that most the time the operators wouldn't even have the time or patience to keep up with the information if they so cared.

 

 

also you can build all the same info using a bot or homunc. We used to use homunc AIs to build a private guild db of all players on the server back in the day. So.... It's really nothing to fret about.


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#175 SafelyEndangered

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 09:21 AM

brews about 100k slims a day, a highly visible forum member

So a player with the said qualifications is what WP takes for a trust and give privileges?

and stop with the "forcefully taken" -_-. you can claim your account and hide all your info.

Check ropd's faq webpage. They even admit that's not an opt-out. Hiding from public view isn't a real opt-out. Opt-out is ragial doesn't add players to their database in the first place, or completely delete upon request (which they will deny to do).

they don't have to put it on a publicly viewable website like ROPD for your viewing pleasure.

Without unauthorized 3rd party program, one shouldn't be able to tell player's account ID. ROPD just take it, display it and tell you to deal with it cause they don't care.
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