183 replies to this topic

[WolfTri]

Well leaving it be does just as much damage, leaving it be killed WoE right? So maybe they should disable Bio5 MVPs until kRO makes a decision?

I'm happier WoE died due to inaction than I would be had WoE died because of one guild's whim.

I do believe leaving things as is does far less damage, while also not straying us away from developer intent. The solution proposed here both abrogates developer intent, while also causing disruption to the vast majority of the related players.

[Diskence]

What the does WoE even have anything to do with this? At this point you are pulling things out of your ass. 

 

I rather you not add any of your iRO weird -_-ty idea in anymore like Unfrozen Shadow Set. 

Edited by Diskence, 12 October 2017 - 02:11 AM.

[PoySanity]

Well leaving it be does just as much damage, leaving it be killed WoE right? So maybe they should disable Bio5 MVPs until kRO makes a decision?

Lol. Disable Bio5 MVPs due to token bombing? What a lame proposal dude. I still cant see any sense of doing this at Bio5 not just because it is the hardest mvp.

[meli]

Interested to know how many people are really affected if Hell's Power is added to the mvp, because I've only seen one or two groups killing it without spamming the hell out of tokens, noone else even bothers to comp because how stupid it is right now.

[Ashuckel]

Ppl learned to deal with Hell's Power when it first appeared on Satan Morroc, all you gotta do is deal with it again, and tbh it isnt too hard, specially with the mvp having a fixed spawn location. 


Besides, you don't need to add a full Hell Power skill to it, a "lower lvl" version with reduced duration works just as fine.

[WolfTri]

Ppl learned to deal with Hell's Power when it first appeared on Satan Morroc, all you gotta do is deal with it again, and tbh it isnt too hard, specially with the mvp having a fixed spawn location.


Besides, you don't need to add a full Hell Power skill to it, a "lower lvl" version with reduced duration works just as fine.

Or you could learn to deal with token bombing. That argument is a two way street.

[Ashuckel]

wat

[VModCinnamon]

Greetings folks,

Discussing and arguing within appropriate measures are always welcome , however please note that going personal with inflammatory/accusatory postings are discouraged and will not be tolerated past this point.

 

Can't we all just get along?

[walkingdoods]

happy halloween too from our team here hoping for a good experience event this week?

[Demeris]

Greetings folks,
Discussing and arguing within appropriate measures are always welcome , however please note that going personal with inflammatory/accusatory postings are discouraged and will not be tolerated past this point.

Can't we all just get along?

Make the map pvpable, only way to separate out differences.

Also, make tokens cost more after each use seems like the only viable way to me.

1st token costs 1, thrn any other after that after a certain time costs more. Just like a phone game!

[Battlehunter]

I've been a player on RO since beta and been back and forth on it and just got back into playing it a few months ago. So forgive me if my ideas are a bit off the mark as I am not 100% on all the new things around.

 

Just would like to make a few suggestions and add to or expound upon others ideas I think would work til a more suitable solution can be made. I think these ideas should be possible but feel free to tell me if not. Maybe just a temp fix til then.

 

1.GFSS Turn in Cooldown or Eden Badge Cooldown for Tokens: If I am not mistaken, you get 5 of these for 5 badges. That is a pretty good amount for anyone who may die and miss a card or have a bad run at a MVP or for emergency situations. If you are spending 10+ tokens or such per fight, you probably shouldn't legitimately be fighting what you are anyway. So putting a week or so cooldown on the tokens would slowly kill people's huge supply they probably have saved and also make it so if you DO need more then 5 a week...You can just save up to fight whatever it is is that is killing you that much. Not everything has to be instant satisfaction. And this should cut down on the token spamming for other MVPs as well without the person choosing to spend KP for tokens. While it won't fix it all cause someone is gonna whale spend anyway, I think it will cut back on how many people we have doing it.

 

2. What is the main reason this MVP is worth cheesing for: Someone mentioned the amount of fragments is like 500 or so when you kill the MVP guaranteed? I am not sure about the other drops but I have seen this go for a good amount for 1 so 500 is easy money. I think cutting down the amount indefinitely or til a plan is in place is a good idea. Making one of the best options to earn money off the MVP so easy to get is what makes people want to cheese more in the first place. This would make the reward for spending so many tokens lessened instead of guaranteed high amounts of pay off. The idea of making the drop of the fragments having a fluctuating drop chance is a smart idea. I mean...We all gear up for a MVP and spend items and pots not for a guaranteed amount of money but for a chance of a rare card drop or the like. So people who are killing it through team work and normal means should very well be use to not getting the best of the best every run. While normally people who cheese want quick and fast rewards for less or no work.

 

3. Put an item cap on Tokens: Why should ANYONE be able to carry hundreds of these things anyway? That is like asking for coming up with a way to mess up the challenge of MVPs or not blowing through content you shouldn't be doing anyway. 10-20 max should be all you can carry. Cause I play battle AB and I know it is hard going through content without AOE's and such but I think that forcing your way through things you have no business doing stops people from communicating and just wanting to solo everything alone.

 

4.Giving the MVP Hell's Power: I think this maybe fine if it is a REAL TEMPORARY solution. Like finding a new way in a week or so. But if it is just gonna sit on the MVP for years to come as a fix is never found...I dunno if it would benefit anyone that much. But I don't have much experience with these MVP skills and such so I can't say I know how much a legit team needs to get around such a skill.

 

That's my two cents on the topic!

 

TLDR: GFSS turn in cool down or Eden badge cooldown for Tokens, Make MVP drops less instantly enticing, Number of Tokens held cap, Temporary changing of MVP Skill.

Edited by Battlehunter, 12 October 2017 - 06:42 AM.

[Demeris]

I've been a player on RO since beta and been back and forth on it and just got back into playing it a few months ago. So forgive me if my ideas are a bit off the mark as I am not 100% on all the new things around.

Just would like to make a few suggestions and add to or expound upon others ideas I think would work til a more suitable solution can be made. I think these ideas should be possible but feel free to tell me if not. Maybe just a temp fix til then.

1.GFSS Turn in Cooldown or Eden Badge Cooldown for Tokens: If I am not mistaken, you get 5 of these for 5 badges. That is a pretty good amount for anyone who may die and miss a card or have a bad run at a MVP or for emergency situations. If you are spending 10+ tokens or such per fight, you probably shouldn't legitimately be fighting what you are anyway. So putting a week or so cooldown on the tokens would slowly kill people's huge supply they probably have saved and also make it so if you DO need more then 5 a week...You can just save up to fight whatever it is is that is killing you that much. Not everything has to be instant satisfaction. And this should cut down on the token spamming for other MVPs as well without the person choosing to spend KP for tokens. While it won't fix it all cause someone is gonna whale spend anyway, I think it will cut back on how many people we have doing it.

2. What is the main reason this MVP is worth cheesing for: Someone mentioned the amount of fragments is like 500 or so when you kill the MVP guaranteed? I am not sure about the other drops but I have seen this go for a good amount for 1 so 500 is easy money. I think cutting down the amount indefinitely or til a plan is in place is a good idea. Making one of the best options to earn money off the MVP so easy to get is what makes people want to cheese more in the first place. This would make the reward for spending so many tokens lessened instead of guaranteed high amounts of pay off. The idea of making the drop of the fragments having a fluctuating drop chance is a smart idea. I mean...We all gear up for a MVP and spend items and pots not for a guaranteed amount of money but for a chance of a rare card drop or the like. So people who are killing it through team work and normal means should very well be use to not getting the best of the best every run. While normally people who cheese want quick and fast rewards for less or no work.

3. Put an item cap on Tokens: Why should ANYONE be able to carry hundreds of these things anyway? That is like asking for coming up with a way to mess up the challenge of MVPs or not blowing through content you shouldn't be doing anyway. 10-20 max should be all you can carry. Cause I play battle AB and I know it is hard going through content without AOE's and such but I think that forcing your way through things you have no business doing stops people from communicating and just wanting to solo everything alone.

4.Giving the MVP Hell's Power: I think this maybe fine if it is a REAL TEMPORARY solution. Like finding a new way in a week or so. But if it is just gonna sit on the MVP for years to come as a fix is never found...I dunno if it would benefit anyone that much. But I don't have much experience with these MVP skills and such so I can't say I know how much a legit team needs to get around such a skill.

That's my two cents on the topic!

TLDR: GFSS turn in cool down or Eden badge cooldown for Tokens, Make MVP drops less instantly enticing, Number of Tokens held cap, Temporary changing of MVP Skill.

Oh hey, someone who actually read the thread

[WarlockFier]

I'm not here as much as I used to. Some people have some serious salt issue even when I'm not here to argue or fight about anything. I just make call outs of dumbness and people can't handle it. XD

Tldr this thread: Good players wants challenge,strategized game play, bad players wants to cheese things with no effort.

As I said, you guys will have your cheesey cheap game with how the GMs managed this game for so long anyways, don't worry about the good players feedback. This community has no aspiration to grow and get better.

Edited by WarlockFier, 12 October 2017 - 07:41 AM.

[Jerbear]

I know, right, Aco?

 

Everything said by Battlehunter is completely valid. Especially the part about dying dozens of times and 'challenging' content that you really shouldn't be doing. If you're dying that much, it's time to change strategy or get a party going. That is what Bio5 MVP embodies. It's not meant to be taken on solo. A+ post.

 

And again, Hell's Power to the MVP should be a temporary solution until kRO comes up with something more permanent. Everyone seems to be glossing over that it would be temporary.

 

But hey, I am all for any kind of resolution to it, so long as there is a resolution and it simply isn't left to continue unabated. If that means limiting Tokens to 10 per character, so be it. That's a server-wide change, though, and it will affect everybody immediately. At least the Hell's Power suggestion limits the effect on Tokens to those in the immediate visual area of the MVP--i.e. those who have a desire to kill it. It then is not a sweeping change to the way Tokens function everywhere else in Rune Midgard; it simply isolates the change on Tokens to an ecosystem in the immediate vicinity of the MVP when (and only when) it is alive.

[WolfTri]

And again, Hell's Power to the MVP should be a temporary solution until kRO comes up with something more permanent. Everyone seems to be glossing over that it would be temporary.

You honestly expect anyone to think you're being serious about "temporary solutions"? Everyone here is quite clear on the fact that kRO will not lift a finger to make a permanent fix.

But hey, if you're that optimistic about kRO making a fix, then perhaps we should wait for that and not have bandaid patches which get in the way of everyone else. A state of the game where hell's power is present is not significantly better than a state where tokens exist in a spammable way. After all, this has been the state of the game for so long. No reason to change it for makeshift solutions causing people inconvenience, without even developer intent. Let's wait for the actual fix.

[WolfTri]

Tldr this thread: Good players wants challenge,strategized game play, bad players wants to cheese things with no effort.

Tldr this thread: "Good" players with decked out gear and equally well geared companions want to monopolize Bio5 MVPs and are butthurt because "bad" players are able to "cheese things with no effort".

[PoySanity]

Tldr this thread: "Good" players with decked out gear and equally well geared companions want to monopolize Bio5 MVPs and are butthurt because "bad" players are able to "cheese things with no effort".

This. They cant compete with the players using token bombing even though they are well geared enough. Lol

[Jerbear]

You honestly expect anyone to think you're being serious about "temporary solutions"? Everyone here is quite clear on the fact that kRO will not lift a finger to make a permanent fix.

But hey, if you're that optimistic about kRO making a fix, then perhaps we should wait for that and not have bandaid patches which get in the way of everyone else. A state of the game where hell's power is present is not significantly better than a state where tokens exist in a spammable way. After all, this has been the state of the game for so long. No reason to change it for makeshift solutions causing people inconvenience, without even developer intent. Let's wait for the actual fix.

 

I'm being as serious as Campitor is; he made the thread and acknowledged it as a problem, after all. Whether or not kRO does something about it is not information I'm privy to.

 

The point is: they have every intention to change it and have acknowledged it as a problem. To say that it is not a problem with the video posted earlier and acknowledgement from Campitor himself saying as much, is ignorant.

 

Something is going to change--whether it's from our WarpPortal team or the kRO studio. The question at this point is: what and when?

[WolfTri]

I'm being as serious as Campitor is; he made the thread and acknowledged it as a problem, after all. Whether or not kRO does something about it is not information I'm privy to.

 

The point is: they have every intention to change it and have acknowledged it as a problem. To say that it is not a problem with the video posted earlier and acknowledgement from Campitor himself saying as much, is ignorant.

 

Something is going to change--whether it's from our WarpPortal team or the kRO studio. The question at this point is: what and when?

 

When was this acknowledged, and how? What, just one whisper in the ear to camp and it's official that it needs to be changed now? Seriously, has the situation gotten this bad? Is there a thread saying this is the issue? Is there a public post from the GM team acknowledging this as unintentional? I'd have thought there was some consultation with the community required before things are arbitrarily accepted as "should and will be changed". What you're basically telling me right now that I have no say in whether or not the thing in question is an issue. As a player here, with as much right to opinion as any other player on these forums should have, it is blatantly unfair that such a decision was made completely outside public view, and that one opinion of a player or a group of players was enough to prompt campitor to change core gameplay features, without so much as inviting counter arguments or issues.

Earlier they would at least pretend to ask everyone else, it seems even that pretense is gone now. Very well, no point inhabiting these forums anymore if all camp wants to do is listen to the whim and fancy of one guild. 

[Hissis]

Nice motivation to discuss about PvM things boyzz

 

Keep going

 

P.S: I Wish you guys had this motivation to discuss PvP/WoE balance 

 

 

[Jerbear]

When was this acknowledged, and how? What, just one whisper in the ear to camp and it's official that it needs to be changed now? Seriously, has the situation gotten this bad? Is there a thread saying this is the issue? Is there a public post from the GM team acknowledging this as unintentional? I'd have thought there was some consultation with the community required before things are arbitrarily accepted as "should and will be changed". What you're basically telling me right now that I have no say in whether or not the thing in question is an issue. As a player here, with as much right to opinion as any other player on these forums should have, it is blatantly unfair that such a decision was made completely outside public view, and that one opinion of a player or a group of players was enough to prompt campitor to change core gameplay features, without so much as inviting counter arguments or issues.

Earlier they would at least pretend to ask everyone else, it seems even that pretense is gone now. Very well, no point inhabiting these forums anymore if all camp wants to do is listen to the whim and fancy of one guild. 

 

Well... if you're looking for the thread, I think this is it:

 

 

• We are aware of the issues with Tokens of Siegfried in the latest Biolabs update.
  • These are not traditional use items. They can't just be blocked and the only map types that block them have the PVP flag turned on.
  • This leaves us with two choices while we wait for studio feedback.
    • Limit the number of times a character can die on a map where death can be random and instant (Not a good solution)
    • Leave it as is
  • Ultimately we are waiting on guidance from the studio on this particular subject.

 

 

 

In this case as shown by Jerbear, the problem isn't the existence or use of tokens its that tokens are allowing certain classes to not even bother to play the game. We want to preserve tokens as a viable option for users to recover from mistakes or bad luck but we also want players to fight the engagement.

 

It's not like a group of people went to Campitor and said, "hey, Tokens needs to change or else _______."

 

It was literally, hey, look at this footage and tell me if that looks right to you? And nobody seemed to think that it looked right. Most people in this thread don't think it looks right. There's no conspiracy. Hell, I'm not even part of a guild lmao.

 

Nobody is even saying that nobody is allowed to argue a point. Argue it and hold that argument up with strong viewpoints! That's your right.

 

The only thing that has been coming out of this thread are various suggestions beyond the two laid out in Campitor's original post. Because while those are the two options he presented, those are not the only two options available. There's a ton more as evidenced by this thread. What's viable and what is not is beyond my knowledge, but at least ideas are being poured out for the GM Team to acknowledge and sort through. It basically is a community consultation at this point.

Edited by Jerbear, 12 October 2017 - 08:32 AM.

[Ashuckel]

Nice motivation to discuss about PvM things boyzz

Keep going

P.S: I Wish you guys had this motivation to discuss PvP/WoE balance

They had, and after years of that falling into deaf ears woe/pvp finally i ded. Now its time to kill pvm too :U

[WolfTri]

Well... if you're looking for the thread, I think this is it:

 

 

 

 

It's not like a group of people went to Campitor and said, "hey, Tokens needs to change or else _______."

 

It was literally, hey, look at this footage and tell me if that looks right to you? And nobody seemed to think that it looked right. Most people in this thread don't think it looks right. There's no conspiracy. Hell, I'm not even part of a guild lmao.

Kay so you were just misrepresenting facts. Not as bad as I initially thought.

As I have repeatedly said before, Hell's Power does not preserve the use of tokens as a means to recover from mistakes, hence does not fit into campitor's requirements, and hence should not be brought in. 

[Campitor]

Kay so you were just misrepresenting facts. Not as bad as I initially thought.

As I have repeatedly said before, Hell's Power does not preserve the use of tokens as a means to recover from mistakes, hence does not fit into campitor's requirements, and hence should not be brought in. 

What I am considering experimenting with is having the MVPs start casting an interruptible self heal when a player dies. The idea is that if its still constantly being engaged it won't finish that heal while if there is a wipe out the MVP resets itself

[PoySanity]

Its just the "Well Geared Player" (Rich/Vet) kill the Bio5 MVPs in a hard way or old school tactics and these "Random Genes" kill the Bio5 MVPs in an easy way or token bombing.