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Round table discussion regarding WoE & general PvP combat


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#76 ChakriGuard

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 03:56 PM

so why do people even need to conquer a castle in woe? for bragging rights?


It’s for fun and doing the most fun activity in iRO ... duh lol
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#77 BlackMeow

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 04:02 PM

okay so it's for fun. 

 

then since everybody doesn't consider the god ingredient farming/god item creating as guild master's benefits, why dont we just remove that? since everybody won't mind because its just 0.01% :) delete all god items and disable the creation of it

 

let's see then if there will still be guilds fighting for "fun" 

 

if you're just looking to kill players, pvp is 24/7 open. 


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#78 Digs

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 04:21 PM

lol guild leader efforts of hounding people to woe, making sure to supply people, setting up class distribution/strategy etc... there's a lot of effort involved in leading a guild and a god item does not cover the whole cost. people woe for fun and the woe scene wouldn't be around if no one was brave enough to lead. if you're just a member and want a god item just buy pieces off your guild leader, they still need to find the proper pieces and that takes an eternity in itself. pretty sure the guild leader is gonna use the zeny for supplying anyways.

 

can't tell if some of you are just trolling or straight up delusional.


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#79 Scuba

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 04:36 PM

okay so it's for fun. 
 
then since everybody doesn't consider the god ingredient farming/god item creating as guild master's benefits, why dont we just remove that? since everybody won't mind because its just 0.01% :) delete all god items and disable the creation of it
 
let's see then if there will still be guilds fighting for "fun" 
 
if you're just looking to kill players, pvp is 24/7 open.


Guild leaders earn every single cent of those meager rewards. I can't tell if you are just willfully missing the point or what.

I would be willing to bet I could stake $1000 if someone could rally a guild of 50 people to participate in WoE who didnt already have a guild and they wouldn't do it.

Being a guild leader takes a lot of work. It takes a very committed, social, and selfless kind of person to bankroll 50 other players. Of the 1.0 god items, only 1 remains relevant in the game.

GvG and PvP are different things. Thats why they specify as such in the OP. Clashing 30v30 is hard. You need to find players who have WoE gear, who are 175, active, willing to put up with a lot of crap. Then you have to plan an event every week. Which means brewing tens of thousands of whites and other consumables. Then you have to hope that everyone shows up who said they would. THEN you have to organize and shot call for those people. Coordinating end forts, keeping parties organized, and instructing others.

I don't think what you are suggesting is realistic or useful.
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#80 Boyeteers

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 04:44 PM

It takes too long to make gods coz guilds don’t just wanna sell their spare godly recipes with each other with coz of greediness.
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#81 KriticalAssassin

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 04:47 PM

Why is not wanting to sell your pieces for your set to someone else trying to make their set greed? lol. The time it takes to get the quantity of pieces takes forever, and then with the randomization it takes even longer for them to be the right ones.


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#82 BlackMeow

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 04:48 PM

1st, i said members doesnt get rewards in WoE. only guild masters do, then an arrogant dick slammed me saying thinking that way is crazy.

 

then when i said just remove it since it wasn't a benefit for guild masters, y'all lose your -_-s.

 

2nd, what i want is rewards for guild members so they will be willing to participate in WoE regardless of who runs the guild. 

 

since your concern is

 

-"guild masters give supplies to members blah blah blah",

-"it doesnt even cover 1% of the cost of supplies"

 

if there will be equal opportunities to make gods for members of an castle owning guild,  do you think guild masters even need to give out supplies? or salary even? 


Edited by BlackMeow, 13 October 2018 - 04:49 PM.

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#83 LordYggdrasill

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 04:49 PM

I dont do WOE myself, though I have friends/guildies actively participating every week. It seems that its getting more lively nowadays, more ppls are joining WOE or are considering doing it in future. It has some serious issues though, my observation is that it is absolutely necessary for GM to take care of certain cheating actions, especially auto-potting. Auto-potting is effectively botting and it should be illegal, it removes the mental workload for potting to enable the killers/supporters to focus solely on their main jobs, thus providing a significant unfair advantage for auto-potters. There are no justification to auto-potting really, the claim that 'other guilds/ppls cheat as well' is just a lame excuse. To completely eradicate cheaters, its necessary to start from somewhere. In my opinion, to ban auto-potters is a good starting point.


Edited by LordYggdrasill, 13 October 2018 - 04:53 PM.

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#84 Diskence

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 04:53 PM

1st, i said members doesnt get rewards in WoE. only guild masters do, then an arrogant dick slammed me saying thinking that way is crazy.

 

then when i said just remove it since it wasn't a benefit for guild masters, y'all lose your -_-s.

 

2nd, what i want is rewards for guild members so they will be willing to participate in WoE regardless of who runs the guild. 

 

since your concern is

 

-"guild masters give supplies to members blah blah blah",

-"it doesnt even cover 1% of the cost of supplies"

 

if there will be equal opportunities to make gods for members of an castle owning guild,  do you think guild masters even need to give out supplies? or salary even? 

 

Dude just calculate it yourself.

 

Assuming you have a 25 member WoE guild.

You need to at least provide them Speeds/WoE Whites which are the bare minimums.

Speeds are 40k each and you give at least 300 to each member x 25 = 300mil

WoE Whites are at least 500k each now and you give at least 30? to 25 members = 375mil

 

Thats twice a week you have to give out 675mil, each week it is 1.35bil

 

You think taking castles can net you 1.35bil per week? If you could then WoE would be the most active thing in iRO right now. 

 

This was one of the worries that I had with a thread like this being up. There will always be people who have no idea what they are talking about throwing out assumptions and accusations. 


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#85 BlackMeow

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 04:57 PM

^ i think you didnt even read my full post


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#86 Haro

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 04:59 PM

^ i think you didnt even read my full post

Stop. Rewind. Read.


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#87 Digs

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 05:05 PM

1st, i said members doesnt get rewards in WoE. only guild masters do, then an arrogant dick slammed me saying thinking that way is crazy.

 

then when i said just remove it since it wasn't a benefit for guild masters, y'all lose your -_-s.

 

2nd, what i want is rewards for guild members so they will be willing to participate in WoE regardless of who runs the guild. 

 

since your concern is

 

-"guild masters give supplies to members blah blah blah",

-"it doesnt even cover 1% of the cost of supplies"

 

if there will be equal opportunities to make gods for members of an castle owning guild,  do you think guild masters even need to give out supplies? or salary even? 

guild members are able to access guild dungeons to farm cards, most of which are very nice. as a guild leader leading one woe, i try to make it so that my members have enough supplies to last the entire woe, albeit it's only TE so an hour is somewhat more forgiving than woe 1/2. i also do 3rd class woes and even though i get supplied, i almost always try and farm for my own extra consumables as to not burden the guild leader too much. people have already said how much it costs to run a full woe guild weekly. most of us are in it for the fun, if all you think about are materialistic rewards you can just stick to brainless pvm, just saying.


Edited by Digs, 13 October 2018 - 05:06 PM.

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#88 BlackMeow

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 05:08 PM

if pvm can give me god items tho, i would stick with pvm.

 

*sigh* 

 

it's hard to make my point for these close minded guild masters.

 

alright i lose. i won't argue anymore

 

edit: also, saying "stick with pvm because i want materialistic rewards" on a thread where we are discussing how we can encourage players to actively participate in WoE is just plain stupid. 


Edited by BlackMeow, 13 October 2018 - 05:21 PM.

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#89 powerhausman

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 05:10 PM

my thoughts:

 

woe:

supplies > make pvp/woe only supplies become dirt cheap or really accessible for everyone, because it's the only place we use them ala bellum stuffs w/c are dirt cheap atm

caps > cap all kinds of reduction to 50% (race,size,elem,neutral resist...)

item restrictions > yeah item restriction will be really really neat, imo disable all boss cards, gods are good because they should really really stand out you know 

incentives > award guilds with acquired agits with kvm badge (like 200) and participating guilds with a lesser amount

 

pvp:

fee > increase entrance fee to 100~200k

modes > non-gods, non-boss card modes will be welcome

incentives > implement enchantment methods for KVM weapons and gears via PVP badge system acquired on killing peeps (lvl1~2 of rune enchants are neat options or lvl1~2 bio5 enchant)

PVP badge > can be discussed upon, something like lvl dependent also, you get 1 badge killing peeps 9 lvls higher or lower than you, no badge killing lower by 10 lvls, 2 badge if you kill 10 lvls higher than you, can be also applied to WOE for acquiring more badge

 

pvp event rooms: (opens once a week)

something like 1 on 1 and other players can watch (like gladiator style arena)

expensive entrance with cooldown and generous PVP badges are obtained

winner fights until he loses, 50 badge per win

 

yeah something roughly like that i guess

 


Edited by powerhausman, 13 October 2018 - 05:10 PM.

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#90 Diskence

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 05:13 PM

^ i think you didnt even read my full post

 

Nah I just quoted the wrong post you made cause I'm -_- retarded. 


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#91 Toxn

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 05:15 PM

For what its worth, you could get god items from doing WoE and taking empty castles and holding them at the end of WoE, because that isn't exactly hard to do with the current state of WoE.

So really you could say you do get god pieces from PVMing.
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#92 ChakriGuard

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 05:55 PM

if pvm can give me god items tho, i would stick with pvm.

 

*sigh* 

 

it's hard to make my point for these close minded guild masters.

 

alright i lose. i won't argue anymore

 

edit: also, saying "stick with pvm because i want materialistic rewards" on a thread where we are discussing how we can encourage players to actively participate in WoE is just plain stupid. 

 

I dont quite get it. I mean, we know that WoE rewards are bad and this is why people dont want to WoE. It's also harder than PvM. Thus, for you to suggest removing god creation altogether is just ... lame. It doesnt even make sense.

 

Lets look at benfits of WoEing

1. Guild masters: Many people already explained to you and it makes sense to me. Guild masters dont benefits anymore. In fact, they incur losses.

2. Guild members: They are given supplies. Sometimes supplies are not  enough but if you want to enjoy WoE with your friends/guildmates, you should also sacrifice your own forture to buy extra supplies. I think this is fair.

 

Conclusion is, no one really benefits anything in current WoE and this is why it is dead. It is expensive, it is punishing, it is non-productive. It just sucks lol

 

This is why I suggest to put better rewards in WoE such as Shadow gears (Classes or Unfrozen) or even OCP pieces. Can have as low as 5% to drop OCP in castle room but meh ... 


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#93 BlackMeow

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 06:02 PM

*sigh*

 

chakri i respect you but you're one of those people who doesnt get my point. 


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#94 ChakriGuard

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 06:46 PM

I will try to go back o re-read everything again then. Maybe I might get another perspective form your view.

Also damn WoE cribabies. WoE already ended and you continue your salt in status god dammit rolf
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#95 Boyeteers

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 06:49 PM

I dont quite get it. I mean, we know that WoE rewards are bad and this is why people dont want to WoE. It's also harder than PvM. Thus, for you to suggest removing god creation altogether is just ... lame. It doesnt even make sense.

 

Lets look at benfits of WoEing

1. Guild masters: Many people already explained to you and it makes sense to me. Guild masters dont benefits anymore. In fact, they incur losses.

2. Guild members: They are given supplies. Sometimes supplies are not  enough but if you want to enjoy WoE with your friends/guildmates, you should also sacrifice your own forture to buy extra supplies. I think this is fair.

 

Conclusion is, no one really benefits anything in current WoE and this is why it is dead. It is expensive, it is punishing, it is non-productive. It just sucks lol

 

This is why I suggest to put better rewards in WoE such as Shadow gears (Classes or Unfrozen) or even OCP pieces. Can have as low as 5% to drop OCP in castle room but meh ... 

 

 

you gotta include those newbies in woe as well coz what I'm currently looking right now is that those woe elites are the ones rantin about supplies/treasures. that's why I'm looking forward here to have more fair game/utilize parties w/ or w/o gods/mvps.


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#96 orokamono

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 07:00 PM

WoE in an eggshell!

MCpj0Rk.gif


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#97 DrArthur

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 07:48 PM

lol guild leader efforts of hounding people to woe, making sure to supply people, setting up class distribution/strategy etc... there's a lot of effort involved in leading a guild and a god item does not cover the whole cost. people woe for fun and the woe scene wouldn't be around if no one was brave enough to lead. if you're just a member and want a god item just buy pieces off your guild leader, they still need to find the proper pieces and that takes an eternity in itself. pretty sure the guild leader is gonna use the zeny for supplying anyways.

 

can't tell if some of you are just trolling or straight up delusional.

 

The delusional one is the person thinking God Items ever move hands without RMT.

 

Buying pieces? It does you literally no good to have pieces. You need to be a guildmaster with a castle to make an item.


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#98 kamikazezero

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 07:59 PM

now u guys should know why people prefer solo and woe sucks


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#99 DrArthur

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 08:00 PM

WoE has literally always been seen as an enormous chore with God Items as the endgoal. It's never been seen as anything else by the vast majority of players.


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#100 Simooom

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 08:25 PM

1. PvPing is always a financial loss so there is no incentive for PvE playing guildies to PvP.

2. Disabling skills that can't be countered and are auto win conditions such as Mandrogora Howl, White Imprison, Banana Bomb, Manhole, Classical Pluck, Stasis, Fiberlock/Extreme Vortex/SV Root Twist would let a lot more classes function and would make those classes much more tolerable to fight against.

3. Its great for an American on the East Coast.

4. WoE isn't profitable at all since you make peanuts as a guild leader and supplies cost several dozen mil per person.Non guild leaders make nothing and have no reason to be there aside from love of the game. As everyone else suggests up the rewards and maybe try out a WoE White/Blue/Violet vendor or +20 stat food Vendor to lighten the cost and to get zenny off the server instead of changing hands.  

 

Limiting Guilds to something like 20 would make WoE a lot more competitive and would ease a lot of the problems it has now. Limiting a guild to 1 ally would also prevent server wide team ups like there were before. Even though this isn't a problem now it very well could be once again in the future.


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