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Round table discussion regarding WoE & general PvP combat


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#151 Ashuckel

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 03:01 AM

A bit of my "ideal" changes to some skills

Stasis needs to be blocked by unwalkable terrain
It's duration needs to be properly reduced by the stats of the receiver

Suicidal Destruction needs a Guild/Aliance wide Cooldown.

Tiger Cannon damage in woe should be revised. While i'm not really against it's single target capabilities, the fact that you target an RK, that is just short of max reducs, but can live it through their HP pool, but you still will kill everyone around it because their HP is 2/3 of his, is pretty lame.

GoH hp portion needs to be revised. Either to get a direct reduction(inside pvp area only) or to work like a reverse Picky Peck, scaling the atk portion dramatically the less hp you have.

Cursed Circle needs to have a stat/stats that reduce it's duration(not dramatically to be point of nullification)

A new woe type of reduction for autoattack boosting skills (at least 30~40%).

Mandragora Howl cannot go through unwalkable terrain.

All Masks have a 1s cooldown on use, success or not. The problem isnt that they can jump onto another target very shortly(1s opposed to actual 2s on success), is that they will ALWAYS succeed at any target they use the skill, because it goes at aspd speed.

Manhole duration halved. Currently it's as effective as killing someone for the purposes of a guild fighting another.

Defending Aura movement speed penalty reduced.
Sacrifice range slightly increased.

Revision of resistances to GX special poisons. 90% of the classes are pretty much always immune to most of them
Revision of Poisonous Smoke, either increase in area, or greatly reduced cast.

Most AoE spammable skills with a 0.2~0.3 cooldown(woe only)
Most skingle target spamable skills with a 0.2 cooldown(woe only)



ps: they do can change skill damages to affect woe/players only, it happens with some skills alreasy, like Throw Coin(1/3 damage against players). So it isnt an impossible "fix". And skill changes regarding damage should happen for woe/pvp only, and not touch PVM by any means.
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#152 ChakriGuard

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 03:08 AM

A bit of my "ideal" changes to some skills

Defending Aura movement speed penalty reduced.
Sacrifice range slightly increased.

 

 

If I want to add ... EB becomes AoE! Otherwise, these 2 suggestions are on spot why as current skills they are, I dont bother to use them ... too hard and annoying lol


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#153 Diskence

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 03:12 AM

A bit of my "ideal" changes to some skills

Stasis needs to be blocked by unwalkable terrain
It's duration needs to be properly reduced by the stats of the receiver

Suicidal Destruction needs a Guild/Aliance wide Cooldown.

Tiger Cannon damage in woe should be revised. While i'm not really against it's single target capabilities, the fact that you target an RK, that is just short of max reducs, but can live it through their HP pool, but you still will kill everyone around it because their HP is 2/3 of his, is pretty lame.

GoH hp portion needs to be revised. Either to get a direct reduction(inside pvp area only) or to work like a reverse Picky Peck, scaling the atk portion dramatically the less hp you have.

Cursed Circle needs to have a stat/stats that reduce it's duration(not dramatically to be point of nullification)

A new woe type of reduction for autoattack boosting skills (at least 30~40%).

Mandragora Howl cannot go through unwalkable terrain.

All Masks have a 1s cooldown on use, success or not. The problem isnt that they can jump onto another target very shortly(1s opposed to actual 2s on success), is that they will ALWAYS succeed at any target they use the skill, because it goes at aspd speed.

Manhole duration halved. Currently it's as effective as killing someone for the purposes of a guild fighting another.

Defending Aura movement speed penalty reduced.
Sacrifice range slightly increased.

Revision of resistances to GX special poisons. 90% of the classes are pretty much always immune to most of them
Revision of Poisonous Smoke, either increase in area, or greatly reduced cast.

Most AoE spammable skills with a 0.2~0.3 cooldown(woe only)
Most skingle target spamable skills with a 0.2 cooldown(woe only)



ps: they do can change skill damages to affect woe/players only, it happens with some skills alreasy, like Throw Coin(1/3 damage against players). So it isnt an impossible "fix". And skill changes regarding damage should happen for woe/pvp only, and not touch PVM by any means.

 

Agree with all of these. But for the spammable skill cooldown time. Does that even do anything? Afaik DB had it but people are still shooting a machine gun. 


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#154 Ashuckel

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 03:16 AM

Agree with all of these. But for the spammable skill cooldown time. Does that even do anything? Afaik DB had it but people are still shooting a machine gun.


DB currently has a 0.2, and a NDL user will shoot at 190 aspd with it, aka 5 per sec. Its still a puppy* lot, but i dont want to just suddenly kill all skills because of one problematic case. A 0.3 cd on it however would reduce the spam to just over 3/sec. Wich not only is way more manageable defendng against, but on using the skill too without any 3rd party assistance.

Single target wise, 90% of cases if someone achieves to go past a 5/sec spam, its not by legal means :T hence why 0.2s cd
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#155 Scuba

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 03:29 AM

Yeah I agree with all of that. The only stretch one on there is alliance CD on suicide but I think thats the wishful thinking item on the list. The rest seem pretty realistic to me.


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#156 DarkOrinus

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 04:19 AM

Mandragora Howl cannot go through unwalkable terrain.

 

no touchy my howls


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#157 tihom

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 04:25 AM

A bit of my "ideal" changes to some skills

Stasis needs to be blocked by unwalkable terrain
It's duration needs to be properly reduced by the stats of the receiver

Suicidal Destruction needs a Guild/Aliance wide Cooldown.

Tiger Cannon damage in woe should be revised. While i'm not really against it's single target capabilities, the fact that you target an RK, that is just short of max reducs, but can live it through their HP pool, but you still will kill everyone around it because their HP is 2/3 of his, is pretty lame.

GoH hp portion needs to be revised. Either to get a direct reduction(inside pvp area only) or to work like a reverse Picky Peck, scaling the atk portion dramatically the less hp you have.

Cursed Circle needs to have a stat/stats that reduce it's duration(not dramatically to be point of nullification)

A new woe type of reduction for autoattack boosting skills (at least 30~40%).

Mandragora Howl cannot go through unwalkable terrain.

All Masks have a 1s cooldown on use, success or not. The problem isnt that they can jump onto another target very shortly(1s opposed to actual 2s on success), is that they will ALWAYS succeed at any target they use the skill, because it goes at aspd speed.

Manhole duration halved. Currently it's as effective as killing someone for the purposes of a guild fighting another.

Defending Aura movement speed penalty reduced.
Sacrifice range slightly increased.

Revision of resistances to GX special poisons. 90% of the classes are pretty much always immune to most of them
Revision of Poisonous Smoke, either increase in area, or greatly reduced cast.

Most AoE spammable skills with a 0.2~0.3 cooldown(woe only)
Most skingle target spamable skills with a 0.2 cooldown(woe only)



ps: they do can change skill damages to affect woe/players only, it happens with some skills alreasy, like Throw Coin(1/3 damage against players). So it isnt an impossible "fix". And skill changes regarding damage should happen for woe/pvp only, and not touch PVM by any means.

 

 

Honestly, that is one of the more nicer suggestions I have seen in this thread. I would prefer the following changes instead tho.

 

========= Balance Change ===============

 

1)For TC's I hope the damage is calculated individually rather than just a splash. So people with higher reductions can benefit from them. 

 

2) I honestly believe the HP part of GoH should be in place. With the amount of reductions, classes can achieve now I believe GoH is one of the more consistent ways to deal with people who abuse 3rd party programs.

 

3) For Cursed Circle, I would like the duration to be the same but the effect on your team member be dispellable or Stat recoverable ( only by single target skills ).

 

4) Making all sources of damage flinch you so that you can't just get banana bombed and wait till you die.  

 

5) Dorams need to be player race. 

 

6) Reducing the duration of Volcanic Ash, Harmonize and Mandragora howl. Considering how powerful all these effects are and how easy they are to reapply they should be set to a maximum of 25 seconds, and a minimum of 10 seconds. 

 

 

============== Game play Changes ==============

 

These are changes I believe will get people more interested in woe/pvp/ kvm 

 

Implement a coin system reward like the TLAP quests which gives you coins based on

 

1) If you attended woe, aka been inside the castle for at least 65% of woe duration 

2) Win a round of KVM

 

 

These coins could then be exchanged for WoE supplies, and WoE specific gear like

 

1) WoE whites/blues/violets 

2) +20 foods which only work in the pvp areas

3) Other consumables which can work only in pvp enabled areas like , speed pots, boxes of sunlight/gloom. Even class specific supplies like runes for RK's, glistening coats/thorn seeds for genes etc.

 

4) WoE Gear like the 

         - WoE set parts

         - BG wp / gears

         - Ceb/Rpb etc 

 

 

 

 

These might be some good changes to implement. I will update the post if I see some other nicer suggestions that have not crossed my mind. 

 

 

 


Edited by tihom, 15 October 2018 - 04:38 AM.

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#158 Nirvanna21

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 10:48 AM

The reason why I say no foods (talking about specifically +20 foods here, nothing else), is because the last time they put it in the shop the forced one of the biggest supplier of foods to quit this game.

 

It's a shame he didn't wanna return, but the damage to the market was pretty big after that.

 

Someone else should pick up from where he left off, but adding these items to the cash shop will permanently -_- with this system, same as even just making them WoE specific buffs available for free.

 

There needs to be some give and take without completely -_- with more in game methods of making your mark.


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#159 ChakriGuard

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 10:58 AM

To put +20 food in Cash shop or to disable +20 food in WoE, either way will affect food market. This is for the fairness in WoE. In addition, lacking supplies or supplies are expensive is one main reason why new players don’t want to try out WoE.

So ... Save WoE or PvM ~

Edited by ChakriGuard, 15 October 2018 - 10:59 AM.

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#160 Ashuckel

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 11:10 AM

Remember that old ass suggestion of making food MATETIALS more avaiable

yeah :T
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#161 KriticalAssassin

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 11:18 AM

40k for vit foods and even cheaper for str and luk foods is okay, but then the int/dex/agi ones have stupid high prices x-x


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#162 Nirvanna21

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 11:21 AM

40k for vit foods and even cheaper for str and luk foods is okay, but then the int/dex/agi ones have stupid high prices x-x

 

Their materials are harder to come by. As ash said, more ways to access materials would be better, that then gives people a chance to buy these materials at a cheaper rate and sell for cheaper prices whilst still making a profit.


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#163 Sazaki

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 11:27 AM

Block all OCP equips


Edited by Sazaki, 15 October 2018 - 11:28 AM.

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#164 mildcontempt

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 11:29 AM

Make the global drop be that a monster has a chance to drop a box that gives you 1 of the food-mats at random. 

 

 


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#165 zx56vb

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 11:31 AM

So how about disable unfrozen set when equip with tao card?


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#166 Braska

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 11:32 AM

 

6) Reducing the duration of Volcanic Ash, Harmonize and Mandragora howl. Considering how powerful all these effects are and how easy they are to reapply they should be set to a maximum of 25 seconds, and a minimum of 10 seconds. 

 

 

 

 

This one should really be dispellable/clearance-able


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#167 Sataground

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 11:41 AM

Pls disable stasis skill on woe cus its so anoying and u can do that even with gearless alt.
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#168 KriticalAssassin

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 11:46 AM

Their materials are harder to come by. As ash said, more ways to access materials would be better, that then gives people a chance to buy these materials at a cheaper rate and sell for cheaper prices whilst still making a profit.

Not necessarily just how common the mats are but the fact that some foods need 1 of a single material, and some of them need 2 of one and 3 of another. =\

Maybe they could add a drop to GD monsters that is like a box of 10 of random stat food mats, lol.


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#169 Nirvanna21

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 12:24 PM

Not necessarily just how common the mats are but the fact that some foods need 1 of a single material, and some of them need 2 of one and 3 of another. =\

Maybe they could add a drop to GD monsters that is like a box of 10 of random stat food mats, lol.

 

It wouldn't hurt @_@


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#170 Ashuckel

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 12:26 PM

The rate of obtaining them should be proportional to amount used in cooking, ideally. And i mean, it's not like it's bad for the brewers if these things get so much more common that their prices fall back to like 80k each or something. They make money of the act of brewing, because other ppl don't wanna brew themselves, and there will always be a demand for those items.


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#171 mlmf

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 01:46 PM

What would make active combat more rewarding during WoE on an individual level? Maybe some sort point system earned by participation, number of agits, and/or performance? And these points can be exchanged for kvm, bravery, valor, or even kafra points.
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#172 DarkOrinus

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 02:02 PM

What would make active combat more rewarding during WoE on an individual level? Maybe some sort point system earned by participation, number of agits, and/or performance? And these points can be exchanged for kvm, bravery, valor, or even kafra points.


sounds like a dream for me tbh, as i pondered on individual rewarding i came across the dead end of classifying how rewarding is done

how sure am i that this individual actually participated woe in entirety and not just for the end for the prizes

how are alts in woe not incentivized assuming they were also present within the duration

the hard part to think about that is how they'll implement a record per woe of which individuals to incentivize
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#173 mlmf

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 02:30 PM

sounds like a dream for me tbh, as i pondered on individual rewarding i came across the dead end of classifying how rewarding is done

how sure am i that this individual actually participated woe in entirety and not just for the end for the prizes

how are alts in woe not incentivized assuming they were also present within the duration

the hard part to think about that is how they'll implement a record per woe of which individuals to incentivize

Hmmm... How about making bounty quests where these points are given by breaking a specific amount of emperiums and another bounty for killing a set amount of players. This may also promote party members to stick together and do teamwork.

Edited by mlmf, 15 October 2018 - 02:31 PM.

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#174 DarkOrinus

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 02:38 PM

As per instructions, suggestions which are not mine but were collected and summarized. (did not repeat some evident already)
 
  • WoE Guild Coins dropping in Castle Treasure Box. For Kvasir Ring prize highlight.
  • WoE God pieces reverted to how they were rewarded before. Which is on a per castle basis.
  • Making WoE Potion Boxes (White Blue and Violets) in castle treasure box more in quantity. Maybe turning boxes into crates, by which these crates have a number of woe pot boxes to offer.
  • Separate investment option for WoE Supply Consumables, Item Catalyst / Food Ingredients and Miscs.
  • Investment system turned into buy what you need instead of gambling methodology for the acquisition of actual consumables needed.
  • Increasing the amount of items you can purchase with the WPS Token Exchanger. Looking more on witch starsands and speeds for this.
  • Add WoE White, Blue and Violet Potion, Raw & Boxes to be distributed using WPS Tokens.
  • Kill counts in guild dungeon available for any member with access for woe supplies. Mostly WoE boxes, speeds, starsands and most other desireables the community might take into account.
  • Guild leveling bounty boards for woe supplies maybe food mats found in owned castle. (Mostly to address end game continuous task. Would make a timeless loop of end game players aid new ones just making things more causal for them as well. Even if it's the end game maps like nct or bio4)
  • No multi clients in WoE.
  • Mini VIP to include WoE benefits like kafra healing and teleport throughout realms.
  • Time change considerations.

 

Hmmm... How about making bounty quests where these points are given by breaking a specific amount of emperiums and another bounty for killing a set amount of players. This may also promote party members to stick together and do teamwork.

 

could be, i don't know how that'll be recorded for players though. usually monsters have a specific id by which they are recorded as killed. players do not share common ids i think, or maybe if it's like that count in 16.1 on the racial segmentation. if they can add a bounty board to kill demi human or player protocol sure


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#175 ChakriGuard

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 02:41 PM

Alt characters will get as many players kills as you want. To kill a specific player in a guild? That person will log out or go afk somewhere else. What if the objective is to kill a cheater who is loaded with Gods and MvPs? I think what we are asking is just unrealistic.

 

What GM can do is as Ash suggested. Review skills in WoE. Although here comes the problem which is everyone will defend their main and try to nerf other classes as much as possible. It's totally normal that Sura/Doram players will defend Suras and claim that Suras have many weaknesses. Pretty much how PvM GXs claim that GXs are not OP, etc. Sure, not every class is equally strong (same goes to PVM aspect), but unlike PvM, no classic is exceptionally broken in WoE. Talking from my WoE experiences.

 

I'll still stay firm on my post to fix WoE castle loots, that is, give something valuable that worth fighting for such as OCP or Shadow gears that cant be obtained in PvM. 


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