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kRO third Class Balance Changes


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#51 Charon

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 12:39 AM

They also changed the party member bonus from 10% to 20%. Frankly that's still far from making parties worth it.

-share only working for people in screen range (like quest kill counts)
-every additional member giving a big amount of extra exp:
1-100%/1=100%
2-160%/2=80%
3-210%/3=70%
4-240%/4=60%
5-275%/5=55%
6-300%/6=50%
7-315%/7=45%
8-320%/8=40%
9-360%/9=40%
10-400%/10=40%
11-440%/11=40%
12-480%/12=40%

But of course, monsters would have to be adjusted to have tons more hp, while also giving more exp. Because people would follow each other like an actual party, and that's ridiculous if the monsters die before even half of the people manage to start attacking them... maybe it would also make sense if there was a nerf modifier for strong skills in regard to how strong the monster is, but that would depend of course on how the monsters would be changed..
Yeah I know, this would require work, so we know what the chances are of gravity even considering something like this. All we can hope for is them raising the party bpnus to like 40% and leaving everything else as it is, but hey....

Anyways.

RK - Hundred Spear - change the sound effect to something that doesnt make ppl deaf x_X

Eh, In general this patch is great!
However, it did not address issues like instant cast geneticist skills, or uridiculous cast times on archer class skills.

And one thing makes me personally wonder on that list. Dimension door. They changed it to work only on pty members. What's the point of that when the skill has NO USE at all regardless of who it works for? Change what it does or at least delete it from the skilltree. But then again, rogue cls has skills that don't work since always, and they made them prereq for 3rd cls so ...............
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#52 Credence

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 12:50 AM

Rangers did not get any love :Emo_15:
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#53 chasko

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 01:29 AM

Rangers did not get any love :Emo_15:


There's a separate Ranger balancing patch that came before this one. Are we getting the Ranger balancing patch along with this one too, Heim? Assuming that you don't only just request this patch but the ranger one too...
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#54 porty

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 02:30 AM

first pin this please
not on the list but still importent

RK aspd with 2hand sword is consoderbly lower then RG with 2hand spear or mechnaic with 2hand axe (all 3 have a quicken skill for their weapon and weapons are compareable in atk/usefulness)
base aspd for RK is 141 with 2hand sword(LOWER then LK(144) and even RG(147)) for RG is 146 with 2hand spear for mech is 148 with 2hand axe(iro only aspd kro uses different aspd formula and changed the aspd values for most classes after iro got renewel and befor getting new formula) wich results in about 3 aspd difference with high agi/dex(about 15-20% less hits/sec)
and the aspd rune should not be REQUIERED to achive SAME aspd as the others as it requiers to hunt low lvl enemies and need high stats/joblvl to create at acceptable chance
and also RK have the worst quicken skill for their weapon which just gives aspd where RG get up to 30crit and 20flee and useable with 1hand spear and mechanic has party wide aspd increasement for 3 different weapon classes
and the crtl-click dmg increasement is not that differetn on those clases(enchant blade/shieldspell/smith battle buffs)

suggestion would be increase RK 2hand swoed base aspd by ~5 to match RG and give the exact same stats for 2hand quicken as spearquicken and a smaller flee/crit buff to all effected for adrinaline rush maybe since party wide buff
(maybe do same for 1hand sword and 1hand quicken)



THIS^^^^

And perhaps a buffed AOE skill?

If these have been done i apologise as i have been in Japan since the big earthquake and not signed in to rag for weeks.....
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#55 TheFury

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 02:37 AM

am i the only one who thinks no change to reflect damage? im sorry but i like it the way it is i have been working my tail off making a rg and its proly gonna get nerfed before i get there... enchant blade self cast only, that's really sad because that's the only buff knights have for support i really hope this is not all going to be implemented in the upcoming maintenance.. reflect dmg for 3 seconds great fml

Edited by TheFury, 21 April 2011 - 02:43 AM.

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#56 Shane

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 02:51 AM

Sorcerer - Killing cloud - Fix it so that it doesn't trigger reflect mechanics. qq
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#57 MagicHands

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 03:12 AM

Rune knight - Enchant Blade - Changed to be self cast only. Bonus damage formula changed.3:3
I'm against this seeing as how selfish the rune knight job already is. They can't support anyone other than general tanking, which any job can do.

Warlock - White Imprison - Instead of breaking on magic ghost damage, breaks on any ghost damage. Can be removed with the priest skill 'Status Recovery'.
It already does exactly this on our server.

Warlock - Comet - SP cost changed (400 + SkillLv x 80) - Skill fixed casting time changed. - Skill cooldown time changed. - Global cooldown time changed. - When a warlock party member is within 7x7 area when cast, comet deals full damage to all targets in the blast.
Sounds good, they need some buffing up.

Royal Guard - mage reflect chance changed. - Maximum number of reflects added. (30 at max level) - SP cost changed. (80/100/120/140/160) - Maintenance SP cost changed. - Can only reflect short ranged attacks. (Does not reflect trap damage)
Maximum number of reflects pretty much destroys the point of the skill. 30 is too low and would probably get used up in well under 10 seconds.

Sura - Gate of Hell - "Increased damage when used in a combo. "
It's already considered overpowered. We don't need it getting potentially even more overpowered.

Shadow Chaser - Bloody Lust - Effect changed from Provoke to 'Frenzy' status. - Can now be used in Siege and PVP maps.
I'm confused as to which form of frenzy this refers to. Is it the Lord Knight Frenzy or the performer Saturday Night Fever Frenzy?

Shadow Chaser - Masquerade Enervation, Masquerade Gloomy, Masquerade Ignorance, Masquerade Laziness, Masquerade Unlucky - Cannot be used on boss monsters.
Get this.

Sorcerer - Striking - Bonus weapon damage formula is changed. Now gives [ { (SkillLevel * 2) + 8) * Target's Weapon Level] - In regular fields, can only be cast on party members.
The scale of the change between before and after is too big. At most this will now give 72 whereas before it would give 170 I believe? Yes 170 is a lot, but 72 is too little. Scale it to somewhere in between. Ex. ( ( ( SkillLevel * 4 ) + 8 ) * Target's Weapon Level) for a maximum of 112. Then again, the concept of being stronger depending on the level of the caster's endow levels was a nice touch, so maybe find a mix between caster's endow levels and target's weapon level. Either way, 72 just feels too low for a 3rd job buff.

Lol @ Most of This. Have you seen any other class besides an RK Solo Bee? Because i havent.

Warlocks are a fairly decent class and WI doesnt break to Ghost attacks as of right now that was the renewed update.

Lol even if you increased the damage 10x the amount with a combo it wouldnt be enough to convince suras to go combo and i dont see anyone using GoH to level with so...this is pretty much useless
I understand that RD is overpowered in my opinion for woe, but for pvm it is a pretty decent skill and i dont think this is what we should do to nerf it. rather than target the amount of times it reflects how bout lower the amount of time its activated for...just something to think about
+1 to all the Arch Bishop buffs

Edited by MagicHands, 21 April 2011 - 03:18 AM.

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#58 Pril

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 04:15 AM

Lol @ Most of This. Have you seen any other class besides an RK Solo Bee? Because i havent.

Warlocks are a fairly decent class and WI doesnt break to Ghost attacks as of right now that was the renewed update.

Lol even if you increased the damage 10x the amount with a combo it wouldnt be enough to convince suras to go combo and i dont see anyone using GoH to level with so...this is pretty much useless
I understand that RD is overpowered in my opinion for woe, but for pvm it is a pretty decent skill and i dont think this is what we should do to nerf it. rather than target the amount of times it reflects how bout lower the amount of time its activated for...just something to think about
+1 to all the Arch Bishop buffs

White imprison does break to ghost attacks, except most skills have a fixed element making ghost endowed fixed element skills miss white imprison. I can demonstrate this to you if you like.
On the matter of Gate of Hell, it's not so much about the combo attack, but more that the skill is not getting scaled down at all like it should.
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#59 Kadelia

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 05:51 AM

Have you played a performer class? :Emo_15:


lol!

Yeah I think most people who make comments like that guy haven't noticed how much disparity there is in class usefulness and fun.

Some of the performer tweaks make the skills more useful but don't really push them across that precipice of "might actually be used by someone" just yet. The performers still need some buffage. Its nice the range and % increase of some effects have changed, but their utility or lack thereof, really, hasn't changed.

There is way too much dependence on multiple maestro/wanderer in party ~ considering how detrimental it is to actually party right now, this gives this class no place to belong. Maestro/Wanderer need some sort of exp chorus that gives +10% exp for every maestro/wanderer in party that can be up at the same time as other chorus skills-- that way people will WANT to have several performers in their troupe.
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#60 Cubical

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 06:21 AM

Untill i know what changes were made, damage formula wise to; Inspiration, Reflect Damage, Pinpoint and Exceed Break i cant really comment on my classes change. I'm prefectly fine with the sp increase as its a small step up and seems somewhat justified.

I do not like what they've done to Gloomy Shyness, as i read on irowiki the effect is now x2 damage[which i dont mind] but theres a chance for bad things to happen like the skill failing or mount being stripped.

Also what myz said, i would implement the patch first and see what the changes are before adjusting anything.
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#61 Kadelia

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 06:33 AM

I do not like what they've done to Gloomy Shyness, as i read on irowiki the effect is now x2 damage[which i dont mind] but theres a chance for bad things to happen like the skill failing or mount being stripped.

the tests with hundred spear and clashing spiral indicate the buff is now 1.5x instead of 3x
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#62 IronFist

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 07:03 AM

Mechanic "Magnetic Field MAX Lv : 3 Skill Requirement : Cooldown 1 Skill Form : Active / Debuff Description : Immobilize all enemies that are inside of skill range with electro-magnetic waves. If caster or targets are in hovering state they don't get skill effect. Also the magnetic field from the skill decreases target's SP continuously. Requires a and consumes 3 Magic Gear Fuel. [Lv 1] : Range 3 x 3 cells / Consume 17 SP in a sec. [Lv 2] : Range 5 x 5 cells / Consume 20 SP in a sec. [Lv 3] : Range 7 x 7 cells / Consume 23 SP in a sec. " "Skill fuel cost changed. (3 -> 2) - Skill area of effect changed (3x3 / 5x5 / 7x7 -> 5x5 for all levels) - Drains 50 sp every second. - Will now remove quagmire and similar abilities from targets. "

I Dislike the 5x5 range, with 7x7 it allows more freedom for the mechanic, means while this is active you cannon be gfisted, its basicly like cursed circle but for a mechanic. 50sp a second is STEAP!! my mechanic has max of 800sp so that like 16seconds before i run out of sp... OVERKILL, maybe it should give the drained sp to the mechanic?


Mechanic
"Neutral Barrier MAX Lv : 3 Skill Requirement : Magnetic Field 2 Skill Form : Active / Buff Description : Increase all target's physical / magic defense around caster by building an energy barrier also ignores long distance attacks. Requires a and consumes 1 Magic Gear Fuel. [Lv 1] : Range 3 x 3 cells / physical / Increase magic defense by 15% / Duration 30 sec. [Lv 2] : Range 3 x 3 cells / physical / Increase magic defense by 20% / Duration 45 sec. [Lv 3] : Range 3 x 3 cells / physical / Increase magic defense by 25% / Duration 60 sec. " "Removed variable cast time. - Skill reuse time changed to 90 seconds. - Skill radius changed. (3x3 -> 5x5) "

I love how the radius is 5x5, allows for partys and guildie to gain from it, rather then been just a solo skill. as for having no variable cast time, as long as you dont cancel on hit i think its a good move.

Mechanic
"Stealth Field MAX Lv : 3 Skill Requirement : Analyze 3 / Neutral Barrier 2 Skill Form : Active / Buff Description : Give all targets around the caster [Cloaking] status by building an energy barrier. Affected target turns translucent and doesn't get hurt by any attacks or magic spells. Continually consumes caster's SP while the skill is active and decreases 30% of caster's movement speed. It can be canceled if Stealth Field is cast twice. Requires a and consume 2 Magic Gear Fuel. [Lv 1] : Range 3 x 3 cells / Duration 15 sec. [Lv 2] : Range 3 x 3 cells / Duration 20 sec. [Lv 3] : Range 3 x 3 cells / Duration 25 sec. " "SP cost changed. (80 / 100 / 120) - Variable cast time removed. - Skill reuse time changed. - Skill effect radius changed. (3x3 -> 5x5) - SP drain while active changed. (1% per 3s / 1% per 4s / 1% per 5s) - Movement speed decrease changed. (30% -> 20%) "

This skill is basicly a mechanic, this is what we do best. overall i think alot of time was put into this and it shows, from the sp drain to the movement speed drop and even more they have notice even portal can drop a player ina 3x3 square but u dont always land in the middle. 5x5 is a great idea and honest the sp drain rate is PERFECT, i just think the above 2 skills need a more realistic sp drain rate. overall mechanics dont get much int, Diablos>Nidg


Mechanic
"Suicidal Destruction MAX Lv : 3 Skill Requirement : Remodel Mainframe 2 Skill Form : Active / Damage Description : Make Magic Gear self-destruct causing huge damage in an area around it Caster will lose Magic Gear and all SP will be drained. [Suicide Device] is required to use this skill. [Lv 1] : Range 5x5 cells [Lv 2] : Range 7x7 cells [Lv 3] : Range 9x9 cells " "Fixed cast time changed. - Variable cast time changed. - Skill cooldown time changed. - Damage formula changed. - User's Base Level increases damage done. - Now consumes 3 fuel. - Skill requirements changed. Previously required 200 sp to finish casting, now can be cast regardless of SP remaining. "

Scary, keep in mind this skill should be 1 hitting EVERYTHING!!, honestly i dislike i cant use it leveling or mvping. i surpose i could level with it maybe at gorge but can be a hassle. overall i like you dont need 200sp BUT something i would like to see is an overheating mado doing higher damage with Suicidal Destruction "Make Magic Gear self-destruct causing huge damage in an area around it" I surpose i just want to be killing mvps with it. 500k seems reasonable

side note, i always expected mado to act as a second life, if you died as mado youd just lose your suit. inregards to this if u die as mado i was thinking that autocasting SD would we wicked. kind of like a 9x9 reflect death :Emo_15:


Mechanic
"FAW Silver Sniper MAX Lv : 5 Skill Requirement : Fire Earth Research 2 Skill Form : Active / FAW Set Description : Set FAW (Fixed Automatic Weapon) on the ground that executes long distance attacks. Maximum of 2 FAWs can be set. Consumes 2 Steel and 1 Iron. Requires an Oridecon Hammer and Mini Furnace. [Lv 1] : ATK +0 / Duration 10sec. [Lv 2] : ATK +100 / Duration 15sec. [Lv 3] : ATK +200 / Duration 20sec. [Lv 4] : ATK +300 / Duration 25sec. [Lv 5] : ATK +400 / Duration 30sec. " "Skill duration changed. "

THESE ARE A JOKE!!, Can we get new skills please.... honestly these have been something that trans was surpose to bring.(1 of those ideas that was never put it for 1 simple reason, ITS A BAD IDEA) Overall i want to see HPCR dealing more dps then a mastersmiths HPCR bread and butter


Royal Guard
"Pinpoint Attack MAX Lv : 5 Skill Requirement : Vanishing Point 5 Skill Form : Active / Damage Description : Quickly move close to the target and hit its vital point. Has a chance to cause different status change or other effect depending on the skill level used. The caster's Agility can increase the damage. Deals 100% critical damage. [Lv 1] : Atk 100% / Chance to cause bleeding [Lv 2] : Atk 200% / Chance to remove spirit spheres from target [Lv 3] : Atk 300% / Chance to break target's Shield [Lv 4] : Atk 400% / Chance to break target's Armor [Lv 5] : Atk 500% / Chance to break target's Weapon " "SP cost changed. (30 -> 50) - Damage formula changed. "

Overall this is a hell scary skill, one thing i have noticed is you can bypass the aftercast by casting a different level of it. overall breaking a targets shield isnt ideal when they are dealing such high damage so i hope that this skill wont be dealing 30-60k hits for a 500% atk >>


Overall these balances are fine, but they dont address the bigger issues, ones such as elemental immunity<elemental armors, things bypassing demi human reductions gears, cursed circle working while sura start casting fist and even the fact that skill reduction gear is next to usless with 10-20% or 1/4 of a cast delay...

Edited by IronFist, 24 April 2011 - 09:58 PM.

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#63 BlackPotato

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 07:11 AM

so why are we going to get this patch when there are others we havent touched? like people have said the ranger patch. and they havent fixed other griefing skills in non woe/pvp maps? can we focus on issues in our game before we implement the nerf hammer from the shiney new patch from kRO
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#64 meli

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 07:11 AM

Would be nice a reset in the mesmerist npc for one more reset when that patch comes, since there's so many changes and people may want to tweak builds...
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#65 Ein69

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 08:14 AM

I think it all sounds great. We've needed these skills balanced for a while now.
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#66 XIII_Eraser

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 11:24 AM

Counter Slash MAX Lv : 5 "Damage formula is changed (Increased by users BaseLv, Agi, and JobLv) "
This skill is perfect the way it is I personally use it to level my low level GX and making it based on base lvl,agi and job lvl would only hinder the gx class more
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#67 sadekOB

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 11:37 AM

Shadow Chaser;

Masquerade: I don't think they should be made completely unusable on MVPs, these are the main skills chasers can use to benefit a party, without them, all chaser skills practically become strictly pvp/woe (which I understand may be the essence of shadow chasers). However, if they are to be changed, I think lower success chance is a better idea. They are great debuffs and give a strong edge to players, so make it harder to acheive...and when you actually do achieve it, you get a good 20secs to abuse the MVP.


What does everyone else think?
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#68 LordVader

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 12:07 PM

Shadow Chaser;

...and when you actually do achieve it, you get a good 20secs to abuse the MVP.


What does everyone else think?


This is what we want to avoid. There should be no window at all to ABUSE an MVP.

Edited by LordVader, 21 April 2011 - 12:07 PM.

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#69 DrAzzy

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 12:20 PM

For all these balance changes, it's really hard for us to give feedback when they just say "Damage formula changed" or "Success rate changed" Increased? Decreased? It would be very helpful if you could get those critical details.
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#70 Kadelia

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 12:36 PM

Yeah there is too much room to make incorrect assumptions due to this. The truth will come out this week as people test, though.
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#71 Exeter0

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 12:53 PM

Oda, you forgot to put the Mechanic skill Emergency Cool/Cooldown.

I can't really say much about the patch, as of now we can't tell if they're good or bad, but hopefully this will balance the game.
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#72 sadekOB

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 01:11 PM

This is what we want to avoid. There should be no window at all to ABUSE an MVP.


by abuse i simply mean to get as much damage done as possible in those 20 seconds when the skill actually succeeds. Its simply to give yourself a slight edge for a short duration if you have a chaser in party. I did not mean it as exploiting the skill to get easy kills, sorry for the bad choice in wording though.
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#73 mseifer

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 01:11 PM

Arm Cannon [Lv 3] : ATK 1500% / 1400% / 1100% Range 3 x 3 cells "

would be nice to atleast get the range of the level 2 5x5 so the skill is easier to use, especially if you get position lag a lot like me
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#74 Yoozie

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 01:13 PM

Can we keep the enchant blade to as it is... i already made EB slave, and EB was not really a problem ppl only use them for level their noobies a little faster.. especially full support types and dex and int types of characters.
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#75 Trini

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 02:12 PM

Royal Guard "Reflect Damage MAX Lv : 5 Skill Requirement : Shield Reflect 5 Skill Form : Active / Buff (To yourself) Description : When receiving physical or magical damage part of the damage is returned in an area around the caster. While active this skill drains SP every second. Cannot be used with Shield Reflect. [Lv 1] : Reflect 20% of Damage / Duration 300 sec. [Lv 2] : Reflect 25% of Damage / Duration 300 sec. [Lv 3] : Reflect 30% of Damage / Duration 300 sec. [Lv 4] : Reflect 35% of Damage / Duration 300 sec. [Lv 5] : Reflect 40% of Damage / Duration 300 sec. " "mage reflect chance changed. - Maximum number of reflects added. (30 at max level) - SP cost changed. (80/100/120/140/160) - Maintenance SP cost changed. - Can only reflect short ranged attacks. (Does not reflect trap damage) "


The 30 Reflect limit is enough, No need to stop it from reflecting magic and ranged and everything. If you do that, it might just be like normal Shield Reflect except that it goes into 7x7 area. It seems like a bit of an over nerf to take away almost every single new property of the reflection ability.



Inspiration changes weren't quantified so I'm not sure if it is being reduced or increased but, if you are decreasing it, a few people might be calling for the free reseter again, and you may want to reconsider any nerfs to RG skill damage since Inspiration helps them to become "Overpowered" (as described by some).


[EDIT]: I had new idea about Reflect Damage. Why not just make Kaahi disable Reflect Damage and make Reflect Damage disable Kaahi? The same way Shield Reflect and Reflect Damage cant be used together. The reason for this is that with a limit on the number of hits (and if you decide to go along with only short ranged meele) the skill becomes worse than Shield Reflect against classes with aspd like GX and Mechs. It seems more like an Endure Improvement than a Shield Reflect Improvement.

By simply disabling the use of Kaahi and Reflect Damage at the same time you get the desired Result and an RG (like myself) can still use reflect damage (a very basic skill) to level by replacing Kaahi with potions. If limit the hits it really renders Reflect damage somewhat useless and might make some think it would be better to max Shield Reflect than Reflect Damage.

Edited by Trini, 22 April 2011 - 10:37 AM.

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