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kRO third Class Balance Changes


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#76 Cubical

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 02:16 PM

It mentioned Inspirations stats and attack power buff were adjusted, the patch didnt clarify what else was nerfed so im guessing i can still use Genesis Ray, cast skills, use items and not receive negative buffs. Again we need the patch to test and see what its doing.

Edited by Cubical, 21 April 2011 - 02:21 PM.

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#77 Hulk

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 02:33 PM

another question is, when is it goin to be implemented in iRO? i hope its sooner. our servers need it asap to help keep our players from quitting.
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#78 Cubical

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 02:52 PM

6-9 months hulk
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#79 Wizard

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 04:02 PM

6-9 months hulk


If you are lucky enough...
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#80 soudou

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 07:30 PM

Rune Knight
Enchant Blade - Made self-cast only.

As others have said, it'd be nice to keep it as a targeted buff. Partying with a Rune Knight is pretty nifty with this skill, it'd be a shame to lose that. Yeah people can make slaves and I understand this is a big thing on kRO from what Doddler once said to make a EB slave and boost low-levels. But slave potentiality could be said of any other 3rd Class buff skill e.g. Striking, Gentle Touch, Power Implantation etc. Not to mention all the other older non-3rd class slaveable skills like Kaahi Linkers etc. I have an EB slave mostly for when a Rune Knight friend isn't on (due to my timezone difference). If people want to solo sometimes with slaves and just guild chat then I think thats fine too though, everyones different, games like FF11 who tried to prevent soloing I think received some complaints for taking that stance. What iRO needs to do is just to make it so partying and sharing exp is better exp than soloing. Thats the day when soloing will be purely down to personal choice than the current feeling people have of soloing being simply better than any other option.

Archbishop

I don't play Support Bishop but the changes sound nice to things like Prefatio. Though Support Bishops may still need more changes.

By the way you missed out some changes I think. For example:

Archbishop

Coluceo Heal

- SP Cost is changed. (200 / 220 / 240)
- Higher number of party members increases healing done.

Expiatio

- Can now be used on other players.


Both very nice boosts too for Support Bishops.

These aren't on the list but please look at the following for Bishop skills (mainly from perspective of someone who plays battle path):

Eucharistica - Change it to max at Level 5 and also make it affect *both* Undead and Demon. Right now noone touches this due to the point cost and limited use.

Oratio - Outside WoE/PvP make it have a insta-cast (like Signum Crucis was) or drastically reduced cast time. As it needs to be cast every single screen and the effect only lasts 30 seconds. And then if some monsters fall within the fail percentage you have to cast yet again. It is supposed to be a skill which increases your damage speed on Holy-weak monsters but currently I don't feel it lives up to this. The reason I specify PvM for this change is because I understand Oratio is useful for revealing hidden players in WoE/PvP, I don't WoE but I guess it might impact things there.

Expiatio - Give it a buff icon already!! So I know when its on and when it'll run out. This will also be useful for Support Bishops!

Edited by soudou, 21 April 2011 - 07:43 PM.

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#81 DeathDealer

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 07:44 PM

Counter Slash MAX Lv : 5 "Damage formula is changed (Increased by users BaseLv, Agi, and JobLv) "
This skill is perfect the way it is I personally use it to level my low level GX and making it based on base lvl,agi and job lvl would only hinder the gx class more

I disagree with u on this, I level with counter slash and it is pretty sick except for a few things.
1.)Right now Counter Slash Damage is basically the same from the early levels until lvl 150. THats lame cuz ur doing the same damage at lvl 110 as you are at 150 but the monsters you need to fight have like 5-10x more hp than those at earlier lvls. Assuming the damage formula is the same as before except now base/job lvl increases damage at higher lvls than this is freaking awesome. If damage is nerfed and u can only reach say the damage ur doing now at low lvl when ur levl 150 that thats ass and should not be implemented
2.) My BIGGEST problem with counter slash is the range, 3x3 is garbage. Means if the monster can atk u from more than one cell away ur not gonna hit it. ALOT of monsters have an atk range of 3 cells + making this skill utterly useless unless you get good at backsliding/walking right under ur mob. Basically counter slash is a pain in most higher lvl dungeons like abyss cuz dragons have a ranged atk for mele and skills. MAKE COUNTER SLASH at least 5x5, if not 7x7 or 9x9 is better!
Great to see a buff to rolling cutter damage/range too but I dont think its gonna be enough of a buff compared to all the other 3rd class aoe skills out there, it would need to be a significant increase in damage to make it a viable skill. Other than that most of it looks ok for the GX.... I was really hoping for more of a buff to GX damage in general just because pre renewal assassin cross was arguably one of the deadliest classes out there, then renewal comes and from all the qq'ing bout sinx's being to OP gets listened too and now GX probably does the least damage skill wise. I mean cross impact is a joke compared to what a linked edp sinx could do back in the day. I didnt think it would get a buff but i was hoping cross impact damage would be increased by base/job lvl at least but that was wishful thinking. Seriously, u see a sura or rg(also breaks ur :Emo_15:) doing 75k damage with therye skills and then i do a cross impact for 12-20k or so. Ya it can be chained, but still that doesnt always work cuz of lag etc.. So please make the assassin class an assassin class again.
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#82 Luckywhiterabbit

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 11:17 PM

Way to make Shadow Chasers completely useless in MVPing. Also at the above poster = Chaining cross impact is not hard at all. I can do it even in heavy lag. Sure it could use a damage buff but it's already a very powerful single target attack when chained. The fact that flying kickdark illusion works in WoE maps now is already a fantastic buff to GX's

And yeah, what is the fury status given to shadow chasers now? Swordie fury or performer fury?
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#83 LordVader

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 12:20 AM

Can't really give valid feedback on most of this stuff as the only thing we know is "we changed it." Just like you can't give feedback on your favorite recipe being changed until you have tasted the dish, or at least know what ingredients were changed.
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#84 Cubical

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 05:23 AM

I'd really like to know the new damage formulas, it'll answer alot of questions
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#85 geniewinie

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 05:33 PM

yea yea, have fun with those yet still Rangers are nerfed and no balance update. REALLY thats how BS this game is.
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#86 Hrothmund

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 03:55 AM

GX:

rolling cutter: nice updates, 5x5 seems appropriate for this skill. should do about 1.5-2x more damage than it did previously

Counter slash: IMO this skill should have a proper AoE. 3x3 is simply bad, you can't even 'counter slash' a lot of the things hitting you. should be 5x5 or 7x7 (like meteor assult).

Dark illusion: ok so we get a flying kick like skill in woe, except that it has a 1.5 SECOND AFTERCAST DELAY which means you snap, the other guy goes "oh you can't do anything" and either kills you or walks away. I'd love for it to be aspd based like flying kick, but would settle for a 0.5 aftercast delay. As it stands unless it can OHKO people theres no point using it.

RK CS: seriously lets not overreact until we see some tests with proper gear, the new enchant blade and the new spear. Gotta take the balance as a whole to see whats what before going nuts.

RG RD: well something had to be done about reflect damage freezing everyones screens whenever a RG showed up on screen. It probably didnt need the max hit and the "no magic" reflect but that would prevent some MVP abuse (since magic in woe doesnt reflect any meaningful dmg other than hitlock).

***

So yeah overall, the only additional change I'd want to see is dark illusions aftercast delay reduced to something thats useful.

And OMG ditto about real patch notes. I'm pretty sure ROSE and Requiem go into detail when they do updates. It'd be nice to know whats changing before commenting on the other classes.

Edited by Hrothmund, 24 April 2011 - 03:56 AM.

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#87 ensignfluke

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 07:17 AM

Looking at the skill changes, the only thing I can tell from that info that I don't like is not being able to use masquerades on boss monsters anymore. Should leave that part unchanged. We need mvp fun on more characters. =)
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#88 DarkSakul

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 06:22 PM

What purpose making Enchant Blade to Self cast?

Also can you make the Ranger's Fire Trap not be able to place under the feet of other players/characters. It already does the same damage as other 3rd class skills with out the cool down/cast time.
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#89 IronFist

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 09:55 PM

Mechanic
"Repair MAX Lv : 5 Skill Requirement : Madogear License 2 Skill Form : Active / Recovery Description : Enable to repair (recover) Madogear or other Madogears in a 5 cell area. Requires a and consumes 1 Magic Gear Fuel. [Lv 1] : MaxHP 6% recovery [Lv 2] : MaxHP 9% recovery [Lv 3] : MaxHP 12% recovery [Lv 4] : MaxHP 15% recovery [Lv 5] : MaxHP 18% recovery " "Variable cast time changed. - Skill range changed. (4 + SkillLv) cells - Consumed Item changed. Previously 1 fuel. Now level 1 and 2 take 1 RepairA, level 3 and 4 take 1 RepairB, and level 5 takes 1 RepairC. - Max HP recovered changed. (6/9/12/15/18% -> 4/7/13/17/23%) "

Weight of these potions are insane!, A-10 B-14 C-18, you expect me to walk around with a bunch of potion weighting :) loads that only work if im in mado suit and only when i can cast repair.., honestly i was hoping these "repair potions" was gravitys way of adding balance. Since biochems became like mastersmith why doesnt it work the other way and let us have better potions then ranked slim white. just we buy ours and are super heavy. When it comes down to it they are just to heavy. Mechanic is 1 single class it isnt split between mado and axe... how about some improvements not downgrades


p.s. as far as i knew, renewal mado was suppose to limit potions, so i assumed these were our potions... since if u dnt get repair u wouldnt be able to heal at all

Edited by IronFist, 25 April 2011 - 02:58 AM.

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#90 Luckywhiterabbit

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 12:09 AM

What purpose making Enchant Blade to Self cast?

Also can you make the Ranger's Fire Trap not be able to place under the feet of other players/characters. It already does the same damage as other 3rd class skills with out the cool down/cast time.


that's a terrible idea. It's the only really decent direct damage leveling tool that rangers and shadow chasers have. Furthermore, it's useless in WoE because it hits teammates and if they miss, they can't cast it again until it's gone unless they use remove trap. In lag and pvp, it's very easy to miss.

It also takes a catalyst to perform. Catalyst skills are meant to be strong.
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#91 Hrothmund

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 01:26 AM

What purpose making Enchant Blade to Self cast?

Also can you make the Ranger's Fire Trap not be able to place under the feet of other players/characters. It already does the same damage as other 3rd class skills with out the cool down/cast time.


I'm working on the assumption they somehow made it useful for RK's to actually use, hopefully adding E.Atk or something. Otherwise they're just freeing up some skill points for you to use on hundred spear to replace CS, since on a RK 200 matk on swing is pretty minor assuming a ctrl-click aspd char is in frenzy.

btw im still not getting striking on my sorc because the duration is too small. RO has the most rediculously short buff timers of any game i've ever seen.

Edited by Hrothmund, 25 April 2011 - 01:27 AM.

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#92 Mutoh

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 01:44 AM

-share only working for people in screen range (like quest kill counts)
-every additional member giving a big amount of extra exp:
1-100%/1=100%
2-160%/2=80%
3-210%/3=70%
4-240%/4=60%
5-275%/5=55%
6-300%/6=50%
7-315%/7=45%
8-320%/8=40%
9-360%/9=40%
10-400%/10=40%
11-440%/11=40%
12-480%/12=40%

But of course, monsters would have to be adjusted to have tons more hp, while also giving more exp. Because people would follow each other like an actual party, and that's ridiculous if the monsters die before even half of the people manage to start attacking them... maybe it would also make sense if there was a nerf modifier for strong skills in regard to how strong the monster is, but that would depend of course on how the monsters would be changed..
Yeah I know, this would require work, so we know what the chances are of gravity even considering something like this. All we can hope for is them raising the party bpnus to like 40% and leaving everything else as it is, but hey....

I'd love to see something like this, it would not only make PvM more meaningful(since renewal mobs die too easy) but it also will make partys alot more worthwhile...
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#93 Hrothmund

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 02:06 AM

^^ renewal mobs only die easily up to about mlvl 120, then their HP increases exponentially with basically no increase in exp. Thors, Bio2, Bio3 without god items these areas have extremely poor exp/hour, heck without the exp penalty system Juperos would yield far greater exp than these maps. Anyone see it as flawed design when you not only level slower but actually get LESS exp/hour as you level up?

Also if exp is going to be capped at screen range, it should be 100% regardless of how many people in the party. For the current system though, they have to be mindful of a "party full of solo's" who could potentially earn a lot more exp than is intended.
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#94 Mutoh

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 02:25 AM

^^ renewal mobs only die easily up to about mlvl 120, then their HP increases exponentially with basically no increase in exp. Thors, Bio2, Bio3 without god items these areas have extremely poor exp/hour, heck without the exp penalty system Juperos would yield far greater exp than these maps. Anyone see it as flawed design when you not only level slower but actually get LESS exp/hour as you level up?

Also if exp is going to be capped at screen range, it should be 100% regardless of how many people in the party. For the current system though, they have to be mindful of a "party full of solo's" who could potentially earn a lot more exp than is intended.

Hehe, yeah, you have a point, but i said "sometihng like this" not "i want this" i'm aware of how the curve at higher lvs is and the renewal way of lvling... don't tell me that you don't want parties to be more worthwhile and not just a party of 12 killers sucking the exp from all the map.

The 120 mob thing.. i've killed some 12X mobs with my combo sura 102 and they're quite killable imo but, of course, i need to check even higher mobs at high lvs.

Edited by Mutoh, 25 April 2011 - 02:28 AM.

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#95 Kadelia

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 07:16 AM

Hehe, yeah, you have a point, but i said "sometihng like this" not "i want this" i'm aware of how the curve at higher lvs is and the renewal way of lvling... don't tell me that you don't want parties to be more worthwhile and not just a party of 12 killers sucking the exp from all the map.


I don't know if you've done the actual math, but this is not the case. If you have 12 ppl killing equally fast, you get 12x the kill inflow of solo, but the exp is also split 12-ways. So you get the exact same amount of exp as solo. There is, however, a small bonus atm of +10% per person beyond the second, so +100%.

This is not really realistic, though. Not all levelers are created equal, for one, and for two, with this many people mobbing a map (mobbing is the only way to lvl efficiently in renewal) your mobs will ultimately be smaller (lower exp). More often than not, what ends up happening is there are people who are efficient and those who are dead weight, and the dead weight people level closer to a decent speed, and the efficient people get slowed down. It's like communism for leveling; people just average each others' exp out. This usually results in the good players leaving the party and striking it out on their own, where they aren't been leached off of. End result is the remaining inefficient levelers just drag each other down (lol) and get really mediocre/average exp. While the good players go back to soloing.

Regardless of what imagined theoretical abuse the system would have, that is clearly unrealistic, and the system should be designed for the casual player instead. Screen-wide sharing would be the doom of that imaginary/unrealistic party example, and if feasible should be implemented, but in the meantime, the system should probably be closer to 20% per extra person, as 300% exp for 12 people levels out to something better than soloing.

I am not sure what iRO pitched to kRO, but last week's maint announcement for kRO advertised the party share bonus being adjusted to 20% from 10%. So here is to hoping.

Edited by Jaye, 25 April 2011 - 07:19 AM.

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#96 Hrothmund

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 06:51 AM

^^ that would be a pretty good fix, hopefully they bundle that in asap. And yeah if you took a 12 person party (each with their on alt support buffers) theres few if any maps that can actually support 12 people soloing.

Juperos certainly can't, exp/hour starts dropping once you get 4+ people. Heck I can clear 60-70% of the map in the time it takes the first ones I killed to start respawning (sortof understand the RD nerf with this lol). Most other maps that are instant spawn suffer from not enough mobs in the first place. The new style of turn-in quests are very good though, considering whats available to be worked with. Its as close to the "100% onscreen party" setup as they can do right now i think.

Maybe scarabia will be nice and mobby, but depends a lot on map size. It does look a lot like the "missing link" between Juperos and, well, where'ever people go after Jup when they get to a 30-50% exp penalty at which point it becomes worthwhile to move out.

Edited by Hrothmund, 26 April 2011 - 06:51 AM.

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#97 Mutoh

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 03:12 PM

Lol, looks like you guys took me too literally here... oh well, lets keep this on topic shall we :) ?
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#98 Mischelle

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 03:19 PM

Based on the fact that Inspiration allows for the use of skills and potions, Frenzy should allow at least for the use of potions.
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#99 Hrothmund

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 02:29 AM

if inspiration gets 300% HP and no reuse delay, sure :)

Edited by Hrothmund, 27 April 2011 - 02:29 AM.

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#100 weaseI

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 05:59 AM

The 300% HP and reuse delay Frenzy is a joke compare to Inspiration. Stop trolling.
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