437 replies to this topic

[Luckywhiterabbit]

if loading a 2nd client and paying 2.5m is "effort" to you... deserving of breaking the game wide open with near immortal tanking... I am at a loss for words as to how profoundly inadequate you are at designing game balance.

Who are you to talk about game balance? Each class has their own way of tanking mobs. If you consider how easy it is to tank mobs as a shadow chaser with a quad malicious weapon and fire trap + rideword and nid garb combo for example, then how does using Kahii seem out of place in a game where finding and utilising these kind of exploits is part of the experience?

Using Kahii is annoying and without it, Sorcerors are forced to spam pots if they want to survive mobs at all due to poor defense. Hauling the stupid soul linker around everywhere to dungeons like Juperos and Magam2 and keeping it alive is a huge chore, as is running back to it every 4 minutes before Kahii wears off. If you die, you have to get yourself AND the linker all the way back to the dungeon again. I currently level using Kahii with my lv 104 sorceror, and let me tell you that even with the correct reduction gears, just getting through that harpy map in one piece without chewing through supplies is a nightmare without Kahii. My shadow chaser on the other hand? It's a breeze without Kahii. Also, due to the limited duration of kahii, you also aren't going to be exploring deeper dungeons like juperos 3 lest you get caught without kahii in the middle of a massive mob. It's a powerful leveling tool, yes, but it also limits you to an extent. There are other equally powerful leveling tools in this game. This one happens to force you to make two accounts, possibly three. Think about that. It's a tactic that -requires- you to register another account and train a completely separate character simply for a single utility. I don't like using Kahii because I hate leveling my soul linker and I dislike the concept of marriage, but everyone in my guild implored me to get it, as leveling hindsight without kahii and soul link was simply not going to work out.

I don't see things like this as exploits. Rightfully we should be able to use any tactic the game provides, even if it is very powerful. It's more like a neat trick to take some of the stress out of leveling. I still die quite often even with Kahii. Every game needs some sort of elite tricks to it and RO is no exception.

I think it would be nice if you were at a loss for words, actually, since you never really have anything interesting to say.

Edited by Luckywhiterabbit, 01 May 2011 - 08:34 AM.

[geniewinie]

What purpose making Enchant Blade to Self cast?

Also can you make the Ranger's Fire Trap not be able to place under the feet of other players/characters. It already does the same damage as other 3rd class skills with out the cool down/cast time.

dude, its the only skill we got so far. 8k damage can still be out potted & we couldnt use it next to our guildmates coz it damages them too @ woe times. rangers are the most nerfed class you dimwit. compared to AB, at least they have a purpose which is to buff every1.

[geniewinie]

UNNERF Rangers

make arrows storm damages to 15k (or make it no delay or cast-bars)!!! and make Arrow Bolt OHKO having 60k damage if target is immobilized by any means (wargbite, ankle snare, electric shock trap, etc.).

make Monks, Sura, champs, unable to snap when immobilized!! since when an immobilized person can move? its called immobilized coz they can't move!!!

RANGERS DEMANS!!!

[Hrothmund]

Who are you to talk about game balance? Each class has their own way of tanking mobs. If you consider how easy it is to tank mobs as a shadow chaser with a quad malicious weapon and fire trap + rideword and nid garb combo for example, then how does using Kahii seem out of place in a game where finding and utilising these kind of exploits is part of the experience?

I have to agree, I'd much rather be able to tank all those massive mobs without kaahi like suras, RK's, and sc/rangers with firetrap. I see the need for kaahi on sorcs/RG's as an indication of something underpowered rather than overpowered when the above mentioned classes can do the same thing without support.

(this is a non-sarcasm post unlike my other reference to sura's)

Edited by Hrothmund, 02 May 2011 - 01:01 AM.

[Kadelia]

When some say that they don't want "whiny people who don't know anything about the game complaining and getting things changed", they are talking about people like you luckywhiterabbit.

Somehow you think a quad malicious weapon is on the same level as kaahi. It's not. Its great and drastically reduces potion cost (at the price of 0.01% drops * 4, amounting to countless hours of work as opposed to marriage's 1 hour of sitting in a dress/tux), but does not eliminate it the way Kaahi almost does. The key differences, beyond kaahi being superior in that regard, is that the malicious requires you to be doing damage and participating heavily in the process, while someone can simply tank with kaahi, which is a pandora box of abuse. The fact that you are ignoring this for selfish gain pretty much invalidates any pretense you are unbiased and looking @ mechanics for their fairness. I myself have a kaahi slave.

"Each class has their own way of tanking mobs"

If by this you mean some are drastically superior at it than others, then yes! In which case we'd agree some serious balance tweaking is in order. If you meant something else you'll need to clarify before I think less of your intellect than I already do.

Using Kahii is annoying and without it, Sorcerors are forced to spam pots if they want to survive mobs at all due to poor defense.

Cry me a river, my Genetic and Wanderer have the same issue. If you can't foot the cost of the pots, get a friend and duo. You know, like a sociable person.

It's a tactic that -requires- you to register another account and train a completely separate character simply for a single utility.

No it's like abusing a loophole in the system with a dual client you were never meant to have, which is enabled on iRO but not kRO. A form of abuse that makes having an actual player on the soul linker obsolete. Which to me reeks of poor game design. Cry me a river. It should be fixed in order to produce a more professional/well made game. Playing game classes shouldn't be obsolete. Dialogue should be how we can make soul linkers playable not how to play with yourself on an MMORPG.

I think it would be nice if you were at a loss for words, actually, since you never really have anything interesting to say.

My sentiment as you wrote half a page of text but didn't really say anything other than "QQ pls don't nerf my abusive masturbatory play style i don't know how to play otherwise QQQQQQ"

I have to agree, I'd much rather be able to tank all those massive mobs without kaahi like suras, RK's, and sc/rangers with firetrap. I see the need for kaahi on sorcs/RG's as an indication of something underpowered rather than overpowered when the above mentioned classes can do the same thing without support.

(this is a non-sarcasm post unlike my other reference to sura's)

Logical fallacy Sura/RG do need to either use ales/pots/malicious/kaahi as well. Not sure where your info is coming from.

Edited by Jaye, 02 May 2011 - 05:01 AM.

[Viri]

MAESTRO: Deep Sleep Lullaby
MAX Lv : 5 Skill Requirement : Voice Lessons 1 Skill Form : Active / Debuff Description : Force all targets in a certain range into a 'Deep Sleep' state. Once the targets are in a 'Deep Sleep' they are unable to move attack use items skills or chat. The effect is cancelled if the targets receive damage. Targets in 'Deep Sleep' will also take 1.5x greater damage from the next attack. Affected targets will also recover 3% of HP/SP every 2 seconds Requires an instrument/whip to cast.
[Lv 1] : Range 11 x 11
[Lv 2] : Range 13 x 13
[Lv 3] : Range 15 x 15
[Lv 4] : Range 19 x 19
[Lv 5] : Range 21 x 21
--------------------------------
Please adjust set the success rate to allies (guild and party) lower

Good lord no, you can already instantly cancel it on your entire party. The success rate does not need to be lower rofl. Skill is incredibly powerful to begin with.

[Kadelia]

Good lord no, you can already instantly cancel it on your entire party. The success rate does not need to be lower rofl. Skill is incredibly powerful to begin with.

Well if a change like his were slated, it'd be slated after the oncoming nerfs to the skill (self-targeted so you have to kamikaze, and enemy arch bishop can clear it from all party members with 1-2 casting of one their AoE dispel/cure skills). DSL isn't very good from the looks of the oncoming changes but we'll have to see it in action before deciding.

[Kadnya]

I have to agree, I'd much rather be able to tank all those massive mobs without kaahi like suras, RK's, and sc/rangers with firetrap. I see the need for kaahi on sorcs/RG's as an indication of something underpowered rather than overpowered when the above mentioned classes can do the same thing without support.

(this is a non-sarcasm post unlike my other reference to sura's)

I see the possibility of tanking massive endless mobs from both sides without even using potions, a very poor game design. But maybe that is because I'm playing a class who can not use from kaahi-moonie dagger infinite HP and SP recovery, neither has an AoE move like firing trap or dragon breath that lets me use gear to fully recover HP and SP from the mobs.

It's a bit ironic, that bishops being "the class with healing skills" are the ones who have to pot. How can those other classes feel underpowered is a mystery to me.

I feel like bishop will change from poor to too overpowered recovery but still lacking. In the case of mandra howling and deep sleep, having AoE recoveries seems a bit too much, just like having no recovery was too few. I would rather if we had a 100% single target spammable skill, like status recovery is for the old status. There is too much AoE party orientation on bishop, that you will almost be able to play without looking at the screen ^^;.

Edited by Kadnya, 02 May 2011 - 06:00 AM.

[mooMOOmoo]

ME bishops need Kaahi too for leveling.

[Kadelia]

At this point in RO it seems like everyone "Needs" kaahi to level and that is what makes it apparent it needs to be fixed so people will party and any glaring problems with leveling design that "require" you to become near immortal to level get redesigned.

(Though that sort of rationality is generally lost on kGravity)

Edited by Jaye, 02 May 2011 - 06:02 AM.

[Hrothmund]

Fine, make %lifesteal work with spells and reflected damage and i'll happily throw away kaahi and my married linker since i'd no longer need it and could join the ranks of DB RK's, firetrapping SC's or suras. If you dont want to believe that hunter fly levelings viable, I suggest you catch up on a couple years forum reading.

I'd say having to alt tab to a linker every 5 minutes is a lot more time/effort than using 20-30 whites/hour, and that IS realistic if your not bad playing those classes. People see lots of numbers flying from sorc/RG's and say "ooh hax!" when other classes are just as efficient and clearing mobs >.> The only real legitimate complaint about RG's is the ones who insist on using elemental sword. Not because its OMGHAX damage but because it causes a large amount of lag for most people.

Edited by Hrothmund, 02 May 2011 - 06:56 AM.

[kati3]

Enchant Blade: Please don't change it to self-cast. It's only helpful for low levels and there are a range of other skills there that increase damage. On that note the Priest skill Imposito Manus needs to be made better than Enchant Blade or Striking.
"Changed to be self cast only. Bonus damage formula changed.3:3" What is 3:3??

Hundred Spears: Need more info than damage formula changed.

Ignition Break: Change only if it will be made better Again need more info.

Don't want lower duration on runes considering Elder Branches aren't amazingly easy to get.
Verkana Rune: Why? Its not like Elder branches drop like Jellopies. 3 minutes is less compared to 5 minutes.
Rhydo Rune: Dont mind. In fact its good. Would be like Exceed Break but with a chance to break weapon.
Nosiege Rune: Made quite nice.
Turisus Rune, Hagalas Rune, Isia: Duration time changed to?
Urj Rune: 3 minutes, really? Not a really big deal though.

Edited by kati3, 02 May 2011 - 08:31 PM.

[Haibane]

Seems like the AB changes are geared towards improving their utility in large parties. Useful for WoE or turn-in events, but what about the more usual small-party levelling or MvPing?

Strange that High Heal didn't get any changes - I'd really be interested in seeing the percentage of ABs who actually take this beyond lvl1; presumably a fraction of a percent. Sure I like the idea of a really high level heal ("hey I actually notice your HP bar increase when I heal you - just like pre-renewal!), and I can accept the limiting factor of a cooldown, but *that* long? Really? It's not like ABs have the luxury of spending skill points on stuff with such debatable usefulness thanks to the bonkers skill tree either.

[Mwrip]

What I basically find is that for melee, the game is all about reaching the 3rd tier and getting a nice power increase. That's fine. That's exactly what it should be in fact, it's the logical step up, just the game noticably changes for 2nd jobbers. The fact that there's no monsters to USE that power on IS an issue, but the coming elite dungeons should address that.

For everyone else, however, Renewal is all about trying to get back to your former power level by 150. Not improving, not matching melee. Not even trying to matter in a melee party. Just getting good enough to function end game, and hoping enough other players aren't melee that you have someone to play with.

I'm not talking about WoE. The scale of WoE makes certain things stand out where they otherwise don't - Comet is one example, and the splash-buffs of AB are another as Haibane pointed out.

In normal play though, most classes simply don't have a role in this game, and no one wants to level with them for any reason except helping guildies get to WoE-ready status.

kRO seems to have no desire to make meaningful balance changes outside of WoE, and while WoE is fun, it isn't RO, just part of it.

[iCandy]

Good lord no, you can already instantly cancel it on your entire party. The success rate does not need to be lower rofl. Skill is incredibly powerful to begin with.

I know we can cancel it for our party but how about guildies in WoE? we cannot cancel it.

we can request to have it set to low success rate ONLY FOR ALLIES but set the current success rate the same for the enemies.

[Hrothmund]

What I basically find is that for melee, the game is all about reaching the 3rd tier and getting a nice power increase. That's fine. That's exactly what it should be in fact, it's the logical step up, just the game noticably changes for 2nd jobbers. The fact that there's no monsters to USE that power on IS an issue, but the coming elite dungeons should address that.

For everyone else, however, Renewal is all about trying to get back to your former power level by 150. Not improving, not matching melee. Not even trying to matter in a melee party. Just getting good enough to function end game, and hoping enough other players aren't melee that you have someone to play with.

I'm not talking about WoE. The scale of WoE makes certain things stand out where they otherwise don't - Comet is one example, and the splash-buffs of AB are another as Haibane pointed out.

In normal play though, most classes simply don't have a role in this game, and no one wants to level with them for any reason except helping guildies get to WoE-ready status.

kRO seems to have no desire to make meaningful balance changes outside of WoE, and while WoE is fun, it isn't RO, just part of it.

The PVM balance of RO reminds me of the general PVM balance in final fantasy games for the most part (not the online ones). Its a lot of fun (if you like that style of jrpg) but is normally biased to melee classes etc.

[Viri]

I know we can cancel it for our party but how about guildies in WoE? we cannot cancel it.

we can request to have it set to low success rate ONLY FOR ALLIES but set the current success rate the same for the enemies.

What I'm saying is that is a huge buff to an already incredibly powerful skill, absurd.

[Luckywhiterabbit]

When some say that they don't want "whiny people who don't know anything about the game complaining and getting things changed", they are talking about people like you luckywhiterabbit.

Somehow you think a quad malicious weapon is on the same level as kaahi. It's not. Its great and drastically reduces potion cost (at the price of 0.01% drops * 4, amounting to countless hours of work as opposed to marriage's 1 hour of sitting in a dress/tux), but does not eliminate it the way Kaahi almost does. The key differences, beyond kaahi being superior in that regard, is that the malicious requires you to be doing damage and participating heavily in the process, while someone can simply tank with kaahi, which is a pandora box of abuse. The fact that you are ignoring this for selfish gain pretty much invalidates any pretense you are unbiased and looking @ mechanics for their fairness. I myself have a kaahi slave.

"Each class has their own way of tanking mobs"

If by this you mean some are drastically superior at it than others, then yes! In which case we'd agree some serious balance tweaking is in order. If you meant something else you'll need to clarify before I think less of your intellect than I already do.

Using Kahii is annoying and without it, Sorcerors are forced to spam pots if they want to survive mobs at all due to poor defense.

Cry me a river, my Genetic and Wanderer have the same issue. If you can't foot the cost of the pots, get a friend and duo. You know, like a sociable person.

It's a tactic that -requires- you to register another account and train a completely separate character simply for a single utility.

No it's like abusing a loophole in the system with a dual client you were never meant to have, which is enabled on iRO but not kRO. A form of abuse that makes having an actual player on the soul linker obsolete. Which to me reeks of poor game design. Cry me a river. It should be fixed in order to produce a more professional/well made game. Playing game classes shouldn't be obsolete. Dialogue should be how we can make soul linkers playable not how to play with yourself on an MMORPG.

I think it would be nice if you were at a loss for words, actually, since you never really have anything interesting to say.

My sentiment as you wrote half a page of text but didn't really say anything other than "QQ pls don't nerf my abusive masturbatory play style i don't know how to play otherwise QQQQQQ"



Logical fallacy Sura/RG do need to either use ales/pots/malicious/kaahi as well. Not sure where your info is coming from.

Scrubs call for exploits to be nerfed. Real competitive players abuse exploits and have fun with them. Which category do you fall under? -.- Also, I never complain about renewal other than the drop penalty, wheras all you ever do is complain. So I think you are a much more 'whiny' player than me.

I do know how to play otherwise, and it's very condescending of you to assume I don't. My first character was a GX, no good weapon or eden group armor, and I got that to lv 113 barely using a single pot, mainly due to being stingy about my consumables. This sorceror is the first character I've ever used Kahii with and I originally didn't want to use it, but was pressured by my guild mates into doing so. It's not even all that bad. It severely limits my access into dungeons unless I want to carry a lot of ygg leaves and painstakingly escort my linker all the way into the depths of wherever it is I'm lveling. And don't even compare genetic to sorceror. Genetics have a homunculus they can use to pull and flee mobs, and an AoE that does huge damage, is spammable, and has barely any cast time. At this point even with hindsight I am not able to kill mobs quickly without kahii or excessive potting.

As for your whole social game speil. Do you honestly think that I'd even bother using kahii if I had to wait for my soul linker friend to log in every time I level? There is a reason people make alts. It's because it's just not convenient to expect someone else to support you all the time. It's not like you can go and party with any soul linker either, since you have to be married to reap the benefits of Kahii. RO would be unbearable without dual clienting, it's an integral part of how we play, just like how wavedashing is an integral part of high level play in Smash bros melee. Stop QQing about everything you think is broken - adapt to it and abuse it.

Also, for someone who complains so much about renewal, you actually tell me to form a party and duo? lol. What about that broken party system that everyone is talking about? Nobody parties anymore OTHER THAN TO LEECH THEIR ALTS. and for good reason.

It may be an MMORPG, but that doesn't mean I have to party or socialise with anyone unless I want to. Some of us are lone wolves who prefer to do things alone, without the distraction of having to deal with others when we are trying to concentrate on a certain goal. That is why I actually hate soul linkers as a class. They give out these obnoxious buffs, some of which are absolutely necessary for the efficiency of a class (hindsight sage). Partying should be a perk for those who choose to do so - to make leveling easier than going solo, but it is very awkward for a hindsight sage to be entirely reliant on a class whom wouldn't be common if it weren't for the ability to run alts. You can't always assume that a soul linker will be there. This is why priest buffs are ok but soul linker buffs are not. All they do is make you a little stronger. They don't drastically change you or give you new skills.

Rather than whine about how stupid that is though, I went and made myself a soul linker and adapted. If the ability to make and marry a soul linker is available to everyone, and as easy as you say, therefore it is not broken and may as well be the norm. (it already is). no problem there. I don't see people using kahii to solo Endless Tower or become unkillable in PvP and WoE.

Sorceror is the only class who can use kahii really effectively though without going through SP potions. So what's the big deal? That's only one class who can abuse this skill and even then they don't level as fast as suras or rk.

Edited by Luckywhiterabbit, 03 May 2011 - 09:08 AM.

[Clogon]

@Luckywhiterabbit:
What fun is there in just moving your char around the map and rebuffing every 5 mins? Unlike classes that use Malicious, RG's can Kahii with no stat investment at all. The only equipment, they need is a Moonlight Dagger and an NPC shield. Epic lag spike? Who cares since the RG player is immortal without doing anything. Also RG's CAN level with a quad Malicious Pike. Just use Over Brand and Spell Shield lv1 and you'd be doing the same amount of damage as any of the other Malicious users.

The only problem with Sorcs is that ,on iRO only..., Vacuum Extreme is disabled on ALL dungeons instead on just Instances where Teleport is disabled. If iRO re-enabled Vacuum on normal leveling maps, then Sorcs can do fine without Kahii. Heck, it would enable even more party play for this class as they can use the skill to help the party set up ambushes or keep the fragile players safe bad enough that Diamond Dust doesn't Mode Cold monsters. I don't see why Sorcs with Kahii are disliked though. At least they are still playing the game and actively using several skills to upkeep their killing power.

The fact that iRO received a patch that nerfed MVP Exp also attributes to the current leveling styles we see.

@geniewinie:
The new Equipments increases Ranger's damage by A LOT. So the skills you mentioned will do that amount of damage and more in PVM. Making Bite prevent movement skills will help greatly since they nerfed it so damn much.

@Balance feedback:
GX:
Counter Slash:

"This skill is perfect the way it is I personally use it to level my low level GX and making it based on base lvl,agi and job lvl would only hinder the gx class more------------------------------------- IMO this skill should have a proper AoE. 3x3 is simply bad, you can't even 'counter slash' a lot of the things hitting you. should be 5x5 or 7x7 (like meteor assult). "

It ALREADY IS affected by AGI and job lvl, making it affected by b.lvl as well would only make it stronger. But I, like many people, agree that the AoE should be increased. 3x3 AoE around you will not let you hit the 2 cell range monsters. THe fact that when Weapon Blocking prevents the GX from moving doesn't help either.

Rolling Cutter:
"Feedback: This skill being Katar exclusive is a hindrance. This class is weak in AoE damage and gets left out of a lot in parties or events where players want fast killers for maximum turn-in experience. Is there any chance this skill can be updated so that the caster is able to use it with any weapon the class can wield, allowing us to increase our damage or defenses depending on the weapons we wield? "

I wholeheartedly disagree with this. kRO already buffs the damage by at least 50% (no confirmation that this skill is further increased by b.lvl or the formulas is just 200%*b.lvl/100).


Mechanics:
Why are there no fixes to the Axe skill tree? Do they really expect all Mechanics to abandon their Merchant and Blacksmith roots for Mado? The Axes skills are still no where near on par with the Geneticist's Cart skills. What is a Mechanic supposed to do after they selfdestruct aside from going back to get another Mado?


Edit:
Also I think Swing Dance giving +26 ASPD is highly broken!!!

Edited by Clogon, 03 May 2011 - 10:34 AM.

[Kadelia]

Scrubs call for exploits to be nerfed. Real competitive players abuse exploits and have fun with them. Which category do you fall under? -.- Also, I never complain about renewal other than the drop penalty, wheras all you ever do is complain. So I think you are a much more 'whiny' player than me.

You're a scrub that abuses exploits. I'm an intellectual pointing out very obvious and logical things. It's pretty obvious the whiny one is you. you're QQing that someone is poking a hole in your fun.

uhg it's painful reading the novel you write with little/no correct information. Apparently a 99 Homun (which dies easily to anything 120+) that takes significantly more time/effort to create than a linker slave is some sort of equivalent to kaahi tanking to you. Amazing how little you know. You also apparently think a balanced cart canon (no god items) is better than psychic wave? It's not. A normal genetic's cart canon is about 10-13k damage. Psychic wave does that much, and in a larger area to boot. Why do you insist on spouting off nonsense?

FYI if you log your linker out (which you can do in MOST game maps!), it won't get eaten. You apparently don't seem to know that.

You then went on to say some non-sensical stuff about soul-link being required for sages even though I made two 9x Scholars pre-renewal without hindsight. Its required for to make a novelty build not suck? Wonderful. Stop QQing.

So anyway, it seems like 70%+ of your post you're actually agreeing with me. Yes, partying system is bunk. Yes, gravity is slowly fixing it. Yes, kaahi makes priests pointless for duos/trios and needs to be fixed. Oops I think you may have fallen short on declaring that last logical point.

You then went on to say some other incorrect stuff like sorcerer is the only class that can make the best use of kaahi, failing to note RG can equip a moonie dagger and kaahi reflect level with low post cost and insane exp. It's an unintended abuse of the kaahi mechanic. You know it, I know it. There is no reason not to fix it. If by "adapt" you mean cling to a change you're not supposed to have, like a child getting used to midnight bedtime with the lax baby sitter while the parents are on vacation throwing a fit when they come home and set it back to 10pm (citing "we know whats best for you") then yes, you did that. Just like a child. Time for you to 'adapt' to losing it in a fair and well-designed game and accept that although you may enjoy it less, a fair and balanced game is better for everyone.

[Hrothmund]

@Jaye

just on the RG thing. What would you think of changing moonlight dagger to work "on swing" rather than "on attack" ? I'm pretty sure it can be done since thats how hindsight works. Would no longer work with any sort of reflect although there are still gear combinations that would allow reflect leveling but would require substantial gear investment and is basically unusable on non-boss monsters.

On sorcs, some change to indulge Maybe give indulge a reuse delay of 1 minute? ... Is there an issue with how warlocks use kaahi? both sorc/warlock have to mob smaller anyway to avoid one-hit 'bug' (i know its not a bug, but meh misconceptions).

The point I want to express is that I dont think Kaahi itself is the problem. The 'problem' is kaahi+unlimited SP. I still dont think its a real big issue (aside from bad RG's and the lag they bring to less than stellar computers) but if *I* was going to nerf those two classes ability to use kaahi, thats what i'd do.

For those interested, you can combine the merch+alchie card sets using every card slot (cept shield/garment) to get +2 SP per physical attack. It provides basically no other bonus to non-merch/alchie classes and uses:

1 weapon slot (no moonie)
2 headgear slots (gotta use sunnies or elvens, no rabbit/poring hats)
armor/boots (so no +40% HP to save from larger mobs)
both accessories (so no flamelord)

You can put something in garment (kasa?) but the +2 sp doesnt work with magic attacks like moonie does and kasa's fireball proc is waaaay lower than flamelord (15% is insane). It was originally brought up as a way for TKM's to level cheaply pre-RE but with inferior damage/survival. It WONT work in juperos, rachael, bio2 because you'll polly the-_- out of everything with hiero equipped.

Edited by Hrothmund, 04 May 2011 - 02:56 AM.

[Kadelia]

Thing is hrothmond, if you read my original post that started the line of debate, is I said kaahi should have a delay on how often it responds to hits of about 1 second. That way most renewal monsters hitting you 1 on 1, you'll out heal them, but in a MOB, kaahi wouldn't be effective. This supports soul linker and warlock leveling style and eliminates issues with RG.

Also I believe merchant set gives SP on attack not as a feature of the set but as a way to counter the zipper bear's drain to keep the forced inclusion of the zipper bear from turning you off of the set.

[Viri]

Kahii would still be effective in a reasonable sized mob even.

[AtlasThunderbeef]

Ok, I've been collecting the feedback on the skills, and have updated the OP with some of the "what we want to see/what we think" in the third column.

It looks like the response is mostly positive, but with most people wanting to see more details on the changes before they give a definite yes or no to the changes.

Currently, for USRC purposes Sakray has been made pre-renewal so it would not be possible to test out the patches there until USRC/RWC are over.

When we had testing for Brasilis, we had a small but dilligent group of testers letting us know about bugs and exploits, perhaps we need to set up a sort of focused Test Subject group of people who are willing to write short reports or help us test specific mechanisms before the patches get applied to the main server.

This is very "I've just got to test!" of you.

With the avatar and the signature.. I'm thinking you're loving this right now.


Luckily you still have human test subjects, maybe not 10 000, but you still have some left, unlike Wheatley.

[Pooru]

idk if this has been mentioned but i'd like to see the GX poison carry through other melee skills and not just venom pressure/poison smoke/melee, we're already kinda nuked on damage (unless we somehow obtain kvm badges from lucky box events that give them easily *sarcastic cough*) and practically every other class can/almost 1 shot...sooo yeah how about the gx poison carrying through rolling cutter grimtooth etc