185 replies to this topic

[Braska]

yeap! i have 110+

[Akin]

Aoe is not the problem with suras.

Actually, AoEs are the main problem with 3rd classes in general. Pre-Renewal, you had to find an AoE nuker (often a High Wiz or FAS Sniper) and then build a party around that person consisting of support and tank characters. Now in Renewal, everyone is an AoE nuker (except GX and AB), and so no party is needed. Give all trans classes a killer AoE before Renewal and we'd be faced with the same problems in PvM. In siege this means that it's not so much about strategic ME battles anymore as it is about focus fire AoEs by all guild mates. It still allows for teamwork, but it just doesn't feel the same.

The rest of your post seemed to suggest that I advocate buffing Suras....I do not.

Also, Braska is pretty much right. My 150 Maestro with 100 VIT doesn't get stunned by Hells Plant, but my 135 RG with 100 VIT sometimes does. What this tells me as a player is that I need to reach the same level or out-level my competition. I don't necessarily agree with how base level affects status resistance from a design sense, but it is a sound theory mathematically. That's also not to say that I think a level 110 3rd class should be worthless either.

[veteran2003]

Actually, AoEs are the main problem with 3rd classes in general. Pre-Renewal, you had to find an AoE nuker (often a High Wiz or FAS Sniper) and then build a party around that person consisting of support and tank characters. Now in Renewal, everyone is an AoE nuker (except GX and AB), and so no party is needed. Give all trans classes a killer AoE before Renewal and we'd be faced with the same problems in PvM. In siege this means that it's not so much about strategic ME battles anymore as it is about focus fire AoEs by all guild mates. It still allows for teamwork, but it just doesn't feel the same.

The rest of your post seemed to suggest that I advocate buffing Suras....I do not.

Also, Braska is pretty much right. My 150 Maestro with 100 VIT doesn't get stunned by Hells Plant, but my 135 RG with 100 VIT sometimes does. What this tells me as a player is that I need to reach the same level or out-level my competition. I don't necessarily agree with how base level affects status resistance from a design sense, but it is a sound theory mathematically. That's also not to say that I think a level 110 3rd class should be worthless either.

Nobody is talking about PvM balance here or aoe skills that kill monsters while being balanced against people/players. Their aoe skills are very balanced in pvp, its one shot skills that are overpowered and either should not exist the way that they do, or everyone, should have one. Take that monsters slaying talk to another thread.

[Puppet]

Nobody is talking about PvM balance here or aoe skills that kill monsters while being balanced against people/players. Their aoe skills are very balanced in pvp, its one shot skills that are overpowered and either should not exist the way that they do, or everyone, should have one. Take that monsters slaying talk to another thread.

you missed the point of his post...

[veteran2003]

you missed the point of his post...

Sorry, but I did not. He was trying to be dodgy and avoid talking about one hit ko imbalance, moving this threads subject as a distraction, and instead bring up aoe skills that people and suras have, which are not overpowered. It is as simple as that.

We are talking about balance of pvp/woe, which is the spirit of RO. Not aoe monster slaying.

Edited by veteran2003, 27 May 2011 - 10:32 AM.

[asayuu]

It's actually pretty sad that Heimdallr has listened to people like you recently. Who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

Rune knights spiral is reducable by 46% by gear (Cranial, feather beret, 2x alligator cards) , 40% more by woe and and additional 40% because of the ranged nerf in woe.

With ONLY just the gear reductions, and without gloomy, hunting spear, (nobody wears two hand spears for obvious reasons) and without being in WoE setting it does 10k damage (LOL).
With GLOOMY, vs. gear reductions, that is 30k damage. WITH GLOOMY. A buff that is NOT even their OWN.
Note: It would be RIDICULOUS if the buff was of their OWN.

In WoE setting, this is highly reduced and VERY easily moreso out potionable, and quite useless. 30k damaged, reduced by 50% is 15k. In WoE, with gloomy, it does 15k damage.

Just kidding. It does even less than that. Wanna know why? Ranged attacks are reduced by an ADDITIONAL 40%, leaving around 11k damage on a fully reductioned player, WHILE using a buff that is not theirs.

Everything you just said is terrible, and Im sure actual players, like Myzery will agree.

Unfortunately... Not. I know exactly what I am saying. And you did not got the point. Okay, with WOE settings and gears, Clashing can't onehit most classes. But they still can hurt very well. Maybe with a Lex Aeterna and some more physical attack buffs [Striking + Windmill Rush] it gets decently. Just don't forget one thing: Not everybody can afford the high amount of the reduction gears, unless they bot or KP. So Clashing would still be effective against most people.

That was not the point. You meant the 2-1 skills needed a buff. But some of the strongest skills from second classes and second trans are 2-1 [Except for Monk's Asura Strike and Bio's Acid Bomb]. The problem is on the 3-X branch. Overbrand, "a ton of sura skills I don't know even the name", Severe Rainstorm, Hell's Plant, Cart Cannon... And maybe more. Okay, it's coming a fairly decent buff to Hundred Spears, but... Maybe it is just useful for PVM. [Even that skill being a close-range one and therefore don't getting the ranged nerf.]

Plants are hard to farm up huh? Wrong. Try being a rune knight or guillotine cross, who has to farm up VERY LOW drop rate branches, that must be coupled with like 3 other ingredients with that low drop rate item, only to have a CHANCE to succeed in creating runestones.

Yes, the problem is "drop penalty". The elder branches can drop with 15% from some new world monster. But it drops to 7.5% with the drop penalty.

And for GX. There is one NPC in the world who sells the poison herbs.

For the other items, yes, you are right. The drop is fairly low. Then you apply drop penalty, it gets lower.

Hell plant catalyst is pretty hard to farm up.

Really? Okay, maybe I can say this is false because I'm on the "OMG BOTS" Valkyrie server... But well, I agree with... maybe in the other servers, gathering maneaters is harder.

== Anyways. I'm still learning about Renewal, and I can't find any server with its mechanics, which I'm able to make 150/50 third class characters quickly just to test skills, boosters and reductions. So all my knowledge is resumed to reading forums and guides. I'm learning slowly, reading to some posts like yours and some other people's.

Edited by asayuu, 27 May 2011 - 10:34 AM.

[veteran2003]

Unfortunately... Not. I know exactly what I am saying. And you did not got the point. Okay, with WOE settings and gears, Clashing can't onehit most classes. But they still can hurt very well. Maybe with a Lex Aeterna and some more physical attack buffs [Striking + Windmill Rush] it gets decently. Just don't forget one thing: Not everybody can afford the high amount of the reduction gears, unless they bot or KP. So Clashing would still be effective against most people.

That was not the point. You meant the 2-1 skills needed a buff. But some of the strongest skills from second classes and second trans are 2-1 [Except for Monk's Asura Strike and Bio's Acid Bomb]. The problem is on the 3-X branch. Overbrand, "a ton of sura skills I don't know even the name", Severe Rainstorm, Hell's Plant, Cart Cannon... And maybe more. Okay, it's coming a fairly decent buff to Hundred Spears, but... Maybe it is just useful for PVM. [Even that skill being a close-range one and therefore don't getting the ranged nerf.]



Yes, the problem is "drop penalty". The elder branches can drop with 15% from some new world monster. But it drops to 7.5% with the drop penalty.

And for GX. There is one NPC in the world who sells the poison herbs.

For the other items, yes, you are right. The drop is fairly low. Then you apply drop penalty, it gets lower.



Really? Okay, maybe I can say this is false because I'm on the "OMG BOTS" Valkyrie server... But well, I agree with... maybe in the other servers, gathering maneaters is harder.

== Anyways. I'm still learning about Renewal, and I can't find any server with its mechanics, which I'm able to make 150/50 third class characters quickly just to test skills, boosters and reductions. So all my knowledge is resumed to reading forums and guides. I'm learning slowly, reading to some posts like yours and some other people's.

Don't edit/bold font my posts like, that. It's a really bad trolling tactic. Suras do not require a buff from another 3rd class that lasts a very short time, to kill people in 1 hit. Gloomy spiral does not kill people in 1 hit in woe, OR pvp (unless in a pvp room the player is below level 130). You do not know the mechanics well enough to understand this. Do not edit my words.

[GhostShadow]

Just so no one PMs me saying I need to look at this thread..
I've looked at it.

Carry on!

Those that have played this game long enough know, the developers and people running the game don't care about your opinion to what is balanced or not (in a way they couldn't please every one unless they had a finished product coming out of the starting gate), even then if it was unbalanced people would just move on, if you think something is OP you make one your self, if you don't like that then carry on or move on. My way or the High way has always been IRO's credo. So I say, build 1 of every atk class. If you complain you will only get flamed and ignored by the GMs, that's how it works here, surprised you say you have played for so long and have not come to that conclusion your self. I feel your pain my friend been there done that, my credo is build a bridge & get the F over it.

Edited by GhostShadow, 27 May 2011 - 10:58 AM.

[veteran2003]

Those that have played this game long enough know the developers and people running the game don't care about your opinion to what is balanced or not (in a way they couldn't please every one unless they had a finished product coming out of the starting gate and even then if it was unbalanced people would just move on, if you think something is OP you make one your self, if you don't like that then carry on or move on. My way or the High way has always been IRO's credo. So I say, build 1 of every atk class, then build a bridge & get the F over it.

Ghost I think I have to agree with you. Build upon an attack for each class, that cant kill people in 1 hit as well as Sura, or, do the better solution and balance it intricately, as posted here in the Original first post.

[Akin]

Sorry, but I did not. He was trying to be dodgy and avoid talking about one hit ko imbalance, moving this threads subject as a distraction, and instead bring up aoe skills that people and suras have, which are not overpowered. It is as simple as that.

We are talking about balance of pvp/woe, which is the spirit of RO. Not aoe monster slaying.

Dodgy? Trying to distract from the main topic? Your topic is titled "Bringing True Balance to Renewal", not "Bringing True Balance to PvP". You gave your opinions about Sura's, and I gave mine.

I already told you how I feel about G-Fist. I am perfectly fine with it being a 1 hit KO skill as long as Sacrament is the only thing that can reduce its fixed cast time. A lot of things need to come together for GoH or any other Sura skill to be a 1HKO skill in WoE. Disclaimer: I main a Maestro, I'm sure everyone on this forum knows that by now.

As for PvP and WoE being the spirit of RO...
I hate to break it to you but PvP is dead. It's been dead for years and Battlegrounds/KVM is nothing but farming.

WoE is the ultimate end game in RO, but what you don't seem to realize is that the only way to be competitive in WoE in Renewal, is to level your ass off. If for instance only Warlocks had killer AoEs, and everyone was forced to party to level efficiently, then we wouldn't have had situations like Insurrection and now to a lesser extent Animosity, where everyone was boo-hooing about how unfair it is to compete against them in a WoE environment.

Sura's and Geneticists are definitely strong and annoying in siege, but I wouldn't say that they are the end all be all and that no other classes can compete with them. Again, I main a Maestro and I have absolutely 0 killing ability in siege. kRO is even taking my Gloomy buff away so I can't even be of help in improving RK/RG killing ability.

You want my fix for balance in WoE? OK here it is in a few easy steps:
1. Throw fixed cast times on Geneticist skills that don't have it.
2. Ditch the effects of the +9 KVM fist.
3. Prevent snap from working while the character is under an immobilization status (i.e. traps, Song of Despair <-there's my bias).
4. Prevent endless manhole. (already fixed in kRO, we're just waiting for it).
5. Allow Sacrifice to work at up to party share limit at least (preferably up to 25 levels).
6. Get the kRO skill changes for AB's Lauda skills (cures howling, DSL, burning, freezing, and cold mode).

[veteran2003]

Dodgy? Trying to distract from the main topic? Your topic is titled "Bringing True Balance to Renewal", not "Bringing True Balance to PvP". You gave your opinions about Sura's, and I gave mine.

I already told you how I feel about G-Fist. I am perfectly fine with it being a 1 hit KO skill as long as Sacrament is the only thing that can reduce its fixed cast time. A lot of things need to come together for GoH or any other Sura skill to be a 1HKO skill in WoE. Disclaimer: I main a Maestro, I'm sure everyone on this forum knows that by now.

As for PvP and WoE being the spirit of RO...
I hate to break it to you but PvP is dead. It's been dead for years and Battlegrounds/KVM is nothing but farming.

WoE is the ultimate end game in RO, but what you don't seem to realize is that the only way to be competitive in WoE in Renewal, is to level your ass off. If for instance only Warlocks had killer AoEs, and everyone was forced to party to level efficiently, then we wouldn't have had situations like Insurrection and now to a lesser extent Animosity, where everyone was boo-hooing about how unfair it is to compete against them in a WoE environment.

Sura's and Geneticists are definitely strong and annoying in siege, but I wouldn't say that they are the end all be all and that no other classes can compete with them. Again, I main a Maestro and I have absolutely 0 killing ability in siege. kRO is even taking my Gloomy buff away so I can't even be of help in improving RK/RG killing ability.

You want my fix for balance in WoE? OK here it is in a few easy steps:
1. Throw fixed cast times on Geneticist skills that don't have it.
2. Ditch the effects of the +9 KVM fist.
3. Prevent snap from working while the character is under an immobilization status (i.e. traps, Song of Despair <-there's my bias).
4. Prevent endless manhole. (already fixed in kRO, we're just waiting for it).
5. Allow Sacrifice to work at up to party share limit at least (preferably up to 25 levels).
6. Get the kRO skill changes for AB's Lauda skills (cures howling, DSL, burning, freezing, and cold mode).

PvP is NOT dead. It's killing monsters for fun that is dead. You are actually dead wrong about pvp. There are some things you are correct on, but this is NOT one of them. Your woe/pvp balance fixes are things that everyone knows, and its up to them to apply it, which it obviously needs. kRO gloomy buff would be a mistake here, as it would only hinder a fairly weak RK attack, which is too reducable to be any sort of threat. There are people one shotting without the help of a short lived buff.

I cannot stress this enough to GMs, do not nerf maestro buff or spiral, because it is literally the only attack that only does SOME damage, that does not require item hunts. RKs attacks are all about item hunts, and are half-assed at best. Taking away maestro buff or spirals power, is idiotic, and would only make it that much easier for Genetics/suras/royal guards (DONT EVEN GET ME STARTED ON THEM) to survive in woe and pvp.

Speaking of which, did you know that suras get a skill that DEBUFFS people of ALL maestro song effects that are beneficial? On top of what they already have?


----------------------------------
Sura:
One ranged and one close-up 1 hit KOs? - Check

infinite mobility and teleporting around the map? - Check

100% SP drains? - Check

Player/Maestro buff removals? - Check

self buffs that give +15% more HP? - Check

Self buffs that allow them to dodge a hit and then teleport to the user they are about to g fist at the same time? - Check

I have said enough today about suras. Im sure by now everyone sees my point.

Moving on to royal guard skill spam abuse next. Right now I have to go do something else. Feel free to try and justify any of this without succession.

Edited by veteran2003, 27 May 2011 - 11:29 AM.

[Kadelia]

Really? Okay, maybe I can say this is false because I'm on the "OMG BOTS" Valkyrie server... But well, I agree with... maybe in the other servers, gathering maneaters is harder.

Mandragora Flowerpot is the item required to cast Howling of Mandragora, not Maneater Blossom.

Maneater Blossom - 90% from Flora
Mandragora Flowerpot - about 1-5% from Muscipular

Edited by Jaye, 27 May 2011 - 11:42 AM.

[GuardianTK]

Get us the "Damage overspill will cancel out Safety Wall and nullify last attack" patch. GFist problem solved.

[veteran2003]

Get us the "Damage overspill will cancel out Safety Wall and nullify last attack" patch. GFist problem solved.

Wow. Please stop playing jokes this is a serious thread.

[Mefistofeles]

You're welcome. But you do know that nearly everyone who pvps and woes has a minimum of 100 vit now right? You should know that.

SURAS AND GENETICS NEDS A FKING NERF, ALL THEIR SKILLS ARE DO A HEAVY DAMAGE AND ARE EXTREMLY SUPER FAST, SURA AND GENETICS THE MOST DEADLYEST CLASSES EVER ON MMO GAMES, THEY CAN 1 SHOT WITH ALMOST ALL SKILLS, PLSSSSSSSSS GMS REALLY, MAKE A CHAR LIKE A SORCERER AND TRY TO DEFEAT A SURA OR GENETIC, RENEWAL WAS SUPOSED TO DELETE THE INSTANT CAST, BU NOOOOOOO, MORE INSTANT CAST FOR THOSE 2 STUPIDS OVERPOWERED MOTHER-_- I DONT CARE TO BE BANED OR NOT I ALREADY DELETED ALMOST ALL MY CHARS.

THEY ARE 12, THEY ARE 12 CLASSES AVAIBLE IN GAME, AND THE GENETIC AND SURA CAN RAPE EM OFF WITH NO DOUBT, EVERY STUPID SKILL OF THOSE CLASSES ITS STUPID, HEAVY DAMAGE?.... EXTREME HEAVY DAMAGE AND INSTANT, JUST LOOK AT GOD ITEMS THERE IS A BELT THAT GIVES 40 STR... ITS THERE A GOD ITEM THAT GIVES 40 DEX?(FOR MAESTROS) 40 INT?
(MAGE CLASS)

SURAS AND GENETICS NEEDS TO SUFFER THE SAME PAIN ASS THE OTHER CLASSES, BE SLOW BUT VERY POWERFULL OR BE FAST BE KINDA WEAK, BUT THEY ARE MOTHER HELL FASTER AND SUPER EXTREME HUGE DAMAGES

[Trini]

Just so no one PMs me saying I need to look at this thread..
I've looked at it.

Carry on!

ROFL. This is too epic. LOL.

Anyway, I don't get that you want to have all classes either able to kill all 1 on 1 or not kill all 1 on 1 cuz certainly some are meant to kill you 1 on 1 (Assassin), some are meant to take out ANYONE at a high cost (Monk/Genetic), some are meant to Support (Pries and Performers) and some are meant to Defend (Crusader/Monk), and then we have the all round class Knight. My point is that RO is meant for team play and classes are meant to compliment each other.

About that thing someone posted with ranged attacks being reduced by 40%, can you post some link to support that. I have this link here that says:

Long range NORMAL attacks are reduced by 25%
http://irowiki.org/wiki/WOE

I know it might be a little outdated but I wanna see where you got that information from. If it were true it means CS miss any Crusader with level 4 or higher Defending Aura and having an RG with level 5 Defending Aura I think I can confirm that this is just not the case.

Also on th point of CS being reduced by (Demi-Human+Range resistance). Firstly, it simply does not stack in that way. One takes priority. you ant get 20% Neutral Resist + 10% Demi Human resist + 10% Range resist and just ad them all like that. If that were the case then you could pretty much have 60% resist from all neutral attacks in WoE making most things including GFist very weak.

Secondly, no one wears 2 alligator cards at the expense of RoFL, RoR, Glorious Ring, Rogue's Treasure, Nimble Glove, etc JUST for CS and those other ranged skills. At most someone might have on one and that would be pretty rare. The point is CS damage geneally hurts but it is easy enough to beat an RK with CS, AB and Sura have penuma, RG has DA and Guard, GX has aspd and Poison to interrupt and silence, SC has Shadow Form, Sorcerer have Cobweb and Soul Siphon and whatever else since i don't know of them much, Warlock has WI, Ranger has Warg Bite. I'd go on but i think that is enough. Just to top it off, all classes can inflict status in some way or another to gain he advantage over their enemy.


This guy telling you the truth:
"WoE is the ultimate end game in RO, but what you don't seem to realize is that the only way to be competitive in WoE in Renewal, is to level your ass off. If for instance only Warlocks had killer AoEs, and everyone was forced to party to level efficiently, then we wouldn't have had situations like Insurrection and now to a lesser extent Animosity, where everyone was boo-hooing about how unfair it is to compete against them in a WoE environment."

In renewal it just matters more to be able to AoE monster slay as your level matters sooooo much more. Also I know quite a few people who love to mob and kill including myself. So yes, AoE Monster slaying IS a very big part of RO and YES people do enjoy it and in my eyes at least YES it is part of the spirit of RO.

[Akin]

PvP is NOT dead. It's killing monsters for fun that is dead. You are actually dead wrong about pvp. There are some things you are correct on, but this is NOT one of them. Your woe/pvp balance fixes are things that everyone knows, and its up to them to apply it, which it obviously needs.

I'm not sure what server you're on, but on Ymir, PvP isn't too exciting (with the exception of last night when, in Pront PvP, there was a Mammo spamming baby merch and a GM spawned Satan Morroc).

As for my list, obviously it's not something everyone knows/cares about otherwise they would have been implemented after 7 months.

And for the record, again as a Maestro, I am AOK with 1 other class having the ability to remove my buffs. The bigger issue is that my buffs aren't even worth debuffing, hence why you hardly see any Suras use the skill for that reason (fear is the key benefit).


Oh, and I warned you about being too polarizing...now you have Mefistofeles in here with his CAPS. Good luck keeping it serious.

[Trini]

THEY ARE 12, THEY ARE 12 CLASSES AVAIBLE IN GAME, AND THE GENETIC AND SURA CAN RAPE EM OFF WITH NO DOUBT, EVERY STUPID SKILL OF THOSE CLASSES ITS STUPID, HEAVY DAMAGE?.... EXTREME HEAVY DAMAGE AND INSTANT, JUST LOOK AT GOD ITEMS THERE IS A BELT THAT GIVES 40 STR... ITS THERE A GOD ITEM THAT GIVES 40 DEX?(FOR MAESTROS) 40 INT?
(MAGE CLASS)

At least look at the God Items before you are going to say this bit.

http://db.irowiki.or...item-info/2630/ Can get 6 DEX AND 10 INT off this and you can now get +30 Stat in Food. Which all don't use all the time.

Also, http://db.irowiki.or...item-info/2410/ Can get 25 INT from that.

I know its not the 40 you want but these items also give other benefits which you can probably agree help them equate to the Megs you are talking about.

http://irowiki.org/w...God_Items_Quest In case you never saw it.

[Trini]

I'm not sure what server you're on, but on Ymir, PvP isn't too exciting (with the exception of last night when, in Pront PvP, there was a Mammo spamming baby merch and a GM spawned Satan Morroc).

Don't worry, it is the same on Valk.

[Kadelia]

I don't think Genetic is overpowered at all. I think they bring some sanity to the overpowered classes and make melee damage more viable with howling of mandragora (lol). Their DPS is expensive to sustain, unlike something like dragon's breath or gate of hell. You need 10 prickly fruit (pretty hard to get drop from an uncommon monster) to make 4 thorn seeds which is basically enough to fight 1 enemy. The only real problem I have with Genetic and Sorcerer despite them overall being decent, useful classes that don't ruin the game the way say, sura does is that they both have the ability to zero out cast time on their damaging skills. This seems contrary to the intent of the game, and creates a huge shift in the viability of the class between having min-maxed setups and not having them. This should be softened, as bonuses should be more linear in renewal.

I will circle back and say that ATM ranger/GX/mechanic are pretty undesirable to play but after upcoming patches they look good.

Performer still needs a lot of love.

RK/RG may be a little more desireable than they should be and could be reviewed again once gameplay settles out with the upcoming patches.

Sura is definitely too good. They can do everything (AoE, single target, buff, debuff, etc) really well and become "too desireable". The game has 12 classes, it should be treated as such. Some of the advantages of Sura need to go the way of old yeller so other classes have some sort of advantage.

[veteran2003]

I'm not sure what server you're on, but on Ymir, PvP isn't too exciting (with the exception of last night when, in Pront PvP, there was a Mammo spamming baby merch and a GM spawned Satan Morroc).

As for my list, obviously it's not something everyone knows/cares about otherwise they would have been implemented after 7 months.

And for the record, again as a Maestro, I am AOK with 1 other class having the ability to remove my buffs. The bigger issue is that my buffs aren't even worth debuffing, hence why you hardly see any Suras use the skill for that reason (fear is the key benefit).


Oh, and I warned you about being too polarizing...now you have Mefistofeles in here with his CAPS. Good luck keeping it serious.

Quit personally attacking people like that. You say "nobody has been frustrated enough" and then you point the finger at a frustrated player such as mefisto. Dont be a hypocrit. There are many players like him, who just dont speak like him.

[GuardianTK]

Wow. Please stop playing jokes this is a serious thread.

I'm not joking. That fix is on kRO. We've been waiting ages for it. Back in pre-renewal GFist was never a problem as long as you had SW to protect yourself from it. And if people were forced to use SW to protect themselves adequately against short-range attacks, it simply means they'd have to worry about long ranged attacks. This is where team play comes in for WoE. It'll also give AB's more options for self-protection.

[veteran2003]

I'm not joking. That fix is on kRO. We've been waiting ages for it. Back in pre-renewal GFist was never a problem as long as you had SW to protect yourself from it. And if people were forced to use SW to protect themselves adequately against short-range attacks, it simply means they'd have to worry about long ranged attacks. This is where team play comes in for WoE. It'll also give AB's more options for self-protection.

It's a widely known fact that every single class in the whole game has safety wall, and another widely known fact that everyone has a skill that summons a pet sorcerer to spam SW on yourself.

I played a joke like you did just now. Was it funny? Didn't think so. You will get GoH'd while standing in SW anyways. You don't use your brain. Let the people who do, continue, and sit back while we balance out the game.

[Kadelia]

You really should ease up veteran, you're just too excited/angry about every little thing. You exaggerate the power of genetic a lot, and you want to argue with everyone despite most people agreeing sura is too good. You should relax some, learn a bit more about the mechanics (You wrote a really... combative post where you denied being wrong about Mandragora's cast increment and seemingly ignored my point about stun resist via base lvls. A quick irowiki or google search will show you that you are wrong, btw). Up ahead is a lot of balance changes that really need to hit the table and be tested before we can have too much dialogue about how fair or fun WoE is. So relax and be more open to sharing ideas then ramming yours down the community's throat.

[GuardianTK]

It's a widely known fact that every single class in the whole game has safety wall, and another widely known fact that everyone has a skill that summons a pet sorcerer to spam SW on yourself.

I played a joke like you did just now. Was it funny? Didn't think so. You will get GoH'd while standing in SW anyways. You don't use your brain. Let the people who do, continue, and sit back while we balance out the game.

You shouldn't WoE if you don't have any Warlock/AB/Sorcerers in your guild then. It's a team effort. Not a 1v1 scenario.

It's like saying everyone should have Pneuma in their arsenal for skills like GoH. What's the deal? It's not going to kill a high leveled player in their 140's. Look at the hp mods on the RK.

Good job flaming me btw. I'm simply pointing out towards a patch that we should get. If anything, we really should get all of kRO's balance patches first before complaining about fixes that might be coming our way. Then again, I've yet to see Genetics or Suras getting nerfed in all those kRO patches. So that's a problem...

Seriously though, back in pre-renewal you had to choose between using SW or Pneuma to protect yourself. It shouldn't be any different. At least this provides a method for defending yourself against more attacks instead of defaulting Pneuma to everything.