310 replies to this topic

[ChampPower]

I have -11 in this topic because I dare to look the issue straight forward while none of you able to solve the issues which I raise. Auto negative is a big fail in your parts if you can't back up on why you do it. Bug fix, design, coding, time, and fund are some of the issues, which Fuer has to face right away. With this project, he has total of 1.5 job ,(1 job in real life, 0.5 job for this project), and this 0.5 job isn't paid. Resceudo had the same intention, but in the end he couldn't cope with the amount of effort and the non-paid work (He said it himself in his final days with us). In 6-9 months, Fuer has to work really hard to make the design, to coding the feature, to fix the bug with coding, to deal with his family (because he still have to take care his family), and to keep his job at the same time. That is a lot of work. Even if he is able to keep it up, how does he able to solve the copyright issue and check for reference on time? Like I said earlier, check for reference and copyright issue takes time because it is a step-by-step process. You can't skip it without risk being sue by someone or by some company. If your company is being sue by some company, it will be both deadly, time consuming, and costly. Do you think GRAVITY will risk itself and pick up your tap? Even if you able to solve this issue, getting GRAVITY to accept your work is biggest issue of all. First, they do not trust you. Let's face it. If someone, who you do not know, come to your house and tell you he want to help you, will you open the door for him right away or you watch him with uncertainly? If it was me, I chose to watch him with uncertainly because that guy could be a criminal who try to gain an access to my house to steal my stuff, kill myself, rape my wife, and kidnap my kids. I don't have a wife or kid yet, but I still able to see issue. Second, even if the DEV Team trust you, they still wouldn't accept your work because it will make them look bad when you can complete something, which they couldn't. They would put their jobs at risk if they accept your work especially when it is a big project. Hey, why the company need them when you, a single person, can do what their entire team couldn't. They will accept some of your drawing, but I highly doubt they would accept a big project such as this especially when you are an outsider (someone who isn't in their team or company). With all the saying, your project has no hope.

Now, if you want to negative my posts, you should prove it to me where I am wrong. If you negative my posts without any explanation, then you are a biased person, a big failure, because you wouldn't dare to touch the issue straight forward. Instead, you are just depend on your feeling and distort the fact like what I mentioned in my previous post.

Edited by ChampPower, 17 July 2011 - 07:36 PM.

[Feuer]

Alright champ your ignorance is just beyond the point of sheer stupidity and I'm sorry for saying so because normally i agree with you however heres some main points and I will no longer address these types of responses.

1. You can't be sued for copyright infringement on material used for a company, made by a company, when it is not being presented for the persuit of gain. For example, loading screens and user interface. the XML documents were released to the public some time ago and was even suggested users have fun making new user interfaces. Loading screens are just pic's. aswell as items.

2. I don't require funding to do any of this, so this imaginary "necessity of funds" is completely dismissable, I already posses all tools i need to do such an endevor, and I've been doing it for about a year for modding, and 3 years for designing.

3. I've already been told by a community manager that if i wanted my items in-game to simply PM him. They're not going to dismiss it because of an insulting claim that was started on the Forums. Plus most of the development team is too busy fixing bugs, the you users are reporting, to have time to attempt these things. Having more people working under your company, and not having it impact your bottom line while increasing your revenue and production is something every company only dreams of. They're greedy, not stupid :ahem:

and I'm sorry to say, but you have read too many peoples post's about MAKING a game, not EDITING a game. There's a massive difference. One that you have yet to distinguish from

[shokwavez]

I have -11 in this topic because I dare to look the issue straight forward while none of you able to solve the issues which I raise. Auto negative is a big fail in your parts if you can't back up on why you do it. Bug fix, design, coding, time, and fund are some of the issues, which Fuer has to face right away. With this project, he has total of 1.5 job ,(1 job in real life, 0.5 job for this project), and this 0.5 job isn't paid. Resceudo had the same intention, but in the end he couldn't cope with the amount of effort and the non-paid work (He said it himself in his final days with us). In 6-9 months, Fuer has to work really hard to make the design, to coding the feature, to fix the bug with coding, to deal with his family (because he still have to take care his family), and to keep his job at the same time. That is a lot of work. Even if he is able to keep it up, how does he able to solve the copyright issue and check for reference on time? Like I said earlier, check for reference and copyright issue takes time because it is a step-by-step process. You can't skip it without risk being sue by someone or by some company. If your company is being sue by some company, it will be both deadly, time consuming, and costly. Do you think GRAVITY will risk itself and pick up your tap? Even if you able to solve this issue, getting GRAVITY to accept your work is biggest issue of all. First, they do not trust you. Let's face it. If someone, who you do not know, come to your house and tell you he want to help you, will you open the door for him right away or you watch him with uncertainly? If it was me, I chose to watch him with uncertainly because that guy could be a criminal who try to gain an access to my house to steal my stuff, kill myself, rape my wife, and kidnap my kids. I don't have a wife or kid yet, but I still able to see issue. Second, even if the DEV Team trust you, they still wouldn't accept your work because it will make them look bad when you can complete something, which they couldn't. They would put their jobs at risk if they accept your work especially when it is a big project. Hey, why the company need them when you, a single person, can do what their entire team couldn't. They will accept some of your drawing, but I highly doubt they would accept a big project such as this especially when you are an outsider (someone who isn't in their team or company). With all the saying, your project has no hope.

Now, if you want to negative my posts, you should prove it to me where I am wrong. If you negative my posts without any explanation, then you are a biased person, a big failure, because you wouldn't dare to touch the issue straight forward. Instead, you are just depend on your feeling and distort the fact like what I mentioned in my previous post.

I just want to say a few things. For Feuer to do something this huge for the entire ROSE Community does seem like a lot of work! But hey, leave the man alone. Feuer represents all the remaining optimistic ROSE players that still have hope for future development. And I'm all for it!


Also ChampPower, you implying that Feuer's big project to demean the DEV TEAM in any way is selfish. Let's face reality here..I've seen some good patches and updates and some really bad ones as well but it doesn't hurt to coincide with Feuer's big plan or anyone's suggestions in the forum for the matter! Sure MAYBE not everything would be implemented because it would "make them look bad" ?? (LAWL). HELL..its about time to make things HAPPEN. Quit being negative! He know's what obstacles he has to blow through with ease. I mean I see it through your perspective and I've taken in some thought, but once again Feuer isn't trying to compete with anybody or trying to earn money! He's simply putting out all his great ideas out there into what we all would love to hopefully see in the mere future. And about your example about letting some stranger into the house that claims he wants to "help you". Well, there's no real harm done here because hes doing this out of pure generosity and enjoyment all for the better! And that's what ROSE needs. More people like him that enjoy putting in the time to possibly make this great game into a more enjoyable one!


For anymore bashing about Feuer's awesome project please refer to this VVV

Don't shout, and don't insult me, im not begging for money, that's what i work for. I'm doing this out of the generosity of my heart. Also, I'm not you're friend, you don't know anything about me, and you have no reason to be judgemental about my ability, which is what realists are, judgemental and biased to their own belief of how they themselves interpret the world around them. That's the commoners difference between being realistic and factual.

My utmost respect! Once again Feur.


BTW Troll me all you want. But IMO, Feur is trying to save what's left of the game by stepping up to the plate.

[ChampPower]

Alright, this is what I am talking about. Pointing out the points address the issue. I will take my time to point out my points of view.

1. You can't be sued for copyright infringement on material used for a company, made by a company, when it is not being presented for the persuit of gain. For example, loading screens and user interface. the XML documents were released to the public some time ago and was even suggested users have fun making new user interfaces. Loading screens are just pic's. as well as items.

First your project isn't simple as the loading screen or user interface. You are talking about design multiple new classes, maps, and coding, which can be use to attract more players thus bring in more business for GRAVITY. In turn, it will be used as the based to bring in more business, so it isn't non-profit at all for GRAVITY. Thus, making GRAVITY subject to the copyright laws. Taking the Disney set or faith set for example, GRAVITY must have the contract with the copyright owners to introduce them in game. If they do not have the contract with the copyright owners, they cannot introduce the items in game without being sue. This is why GRAVITY cannot re-introduced faith items again. Loading screens and user interface are created within the ROSE context, which GRAVITY already has / own the copyright. Thus, it is easy. However, when you are talking about entire new classes, map, and other stuff, which GRAVITY does not own, that is a completely different issue. You may not be sue because you give the design away without gaining profit, but GRAVITY may be sued if your works or project has some aspects from other people, which both you and GRAVITY have no knowledge about.

2. I don't require funding to do any of this, so this imaginary "necessity of funds" is completely dismissable, I already posses all tools i need to do such an endevor, and I've been doing it for about a year for modding, and 3 years for designing.

I am very grateful for your effort. I really do, but I am a realistic guy, and the experience tell me otherwise. Taking Recesduo for example, he had the same intention as you do at first. However, in the end of the day, he couldn't cope with the different between his idea and reality. I do hope that you have the different ending than him.

3. I've already been told by a community manager that if i wanted my items in-game to simply PM him. They're not going to dismiss it because of an insulting claim that was started on the Forums. Plus most of the development team is too busy fixing bugs, the you users are reporting, to have time to attempt these things. Having more people working under your company, and not having it impact your bottom line while increasing your revenue and production is something every company only dreams of. They're greedy, not stupid :ahem:

The different between making a drawing (a design for items)and your project is huge. Your project involves designing, coding, bug fixing, and quest creating. It isn't simple as a drawing. Can you tell the different? There are so many things, which can go wrong in your project. It is almost like creating an entire new game.

[CaNehDa]

I am very grateful for your effort. I really do, but I am a realistic guy, and the experience tell me otherwise. Taking Recesduo for example, he had the same intention as you do at first. However, in the end of the day, he couldn't cope with the different between his idea and reality. I do hope that you have the different ending than him.

speaking of witch- screw doing something that Gravity may or may not implement-

Feuer; Go make us an RRE

You can call it, FRE Freuer's Rose Essentials

[ChampPower]

Sorry, shokwavez. I delete you quote because it is too long to quote everything.

This is my answer to your post, shokwaves. Of course, I am very grateful with Feuer's intention. However, because I am grateful to his intention and being a realistic person at the same time, I would not want him to waste his time when I know his project has no hope to success. I would not doubt his abilities at all. What I do not trust is the reality. Let's face it. The reality is cruel and have no mercy.

[yeoldknight]

Alright champ your ignorance is just beyond the point of sheer stupidity and I'm sorry for saying so because normally i agree with you however heres some main points and I will no longer address these types of responses.

1. You can't be sued for copyright infringement on material used for a company, made by a company, when it is not being presented for the persuit of gain. For example, loading screens and user interface. the XML documents were released to the public some time ago and was even suggested users have fun making new user interfaces. Loading screens are just pic's. aswell as items.

2. I don't require funding to do any of this, so this imaginary "necessity of funds" is completely dismissable, I already posses all tools i need to do such an endevor, and I've been doing it for about a year for modding, and 3 years for designing.

3. I've already been told by a community manager that if i wanted my items in-game to simply PM him. They're not going to dismiss it because of an insulting claim that was started on the Forums. Plus most of the development team is too busy fixing bugs, the you users are reporting, to have time to attempt these things. Having more people working under your company, and not having it impact your bottom line while increasing your revenue and production is something every company only dreams of. They're greedy, not stupid :ahem:

and I'm sorry to say, but you have read too many peoples post's about MAKING a game, not EDITING a game. There's a massive difference. One that you have yet to distinguish from

You just owned him so hard, i'm not even gonna bother reading his response.

[CaNehDa]

You just owned him so hard, i'm not even gonna bother reading his response.

lol - cuz that make sence.


His logic was undeniably correct - So the argument statement to this must be wrong.



rofl.


(P.S - HOW DO I OWN PEOPLE HARD ON FORUMS? CAN I LEARN THIS SKILL?)

Edited by CaNehDa, 17 July 2011 - 09:19 PM.

[RagingHormones]

Seems like a lot to do, and with this much content you could probably make your own game. Why don't you make your own game instead of working with a company like Gravity? I'd play it.

If you need any help with any costume, monster, or environment design hit me up, I'll be happy to help.

[CaNehDa]

Seems like a lot to do, and with this much content you could probably make your own game. Why don't you make your own game instead of working with a company like Gravity? I'd play it.

If you need any help with any costume, monster, or environment design hit me up, I'll be happy to help.

That would require also building an engine for set game. (aaaalllooooottttt of work)

[RagingHormones]

That would require also building an engine for set game. (aaaalllooooottttt of work)

He's already doing a lot. Why not go all out? There's no guarantee that Gravity would even implement it and if all that hard work's wasted, where would it go?

[Tiden]

It looks like a MASSIVE amount of work.. but since you're up for this, I wish you all the best!

[CaNehDa]

He's already doing a lot. Why not go all out? There's no guarantee that Gravity would even implement it and if all that hard work's wasted, where would it go?

If I was him- that's the point where I'd rage and give the content to a pserver; They're always happy to get help from more scripters, texture'rs and modlers

[ChampPower]

You just owned him so hard, i'm not even gonna bother reading his response.

You cannot point out a single thing that I am wrong, and you are making this statement. Is this a biased judgement or a realistic judgement?

He's already doing a lot. Why not go all out? There's no guarantee that Gravity would even implement it and if all that hard work's wasted, where would it go?

exactly.

If I was him- that's the point where I'd rage and give the content to a pserver; They're always happy to get help from more scripters, texture'rs and modlers

Doing this would make GRAVITY less popular, isn't it? It is not our intentions to do so.

Edited by ChampPower, 17 July 2011 - 09:40 PM.

[CaNehDa]

Doing this would make GRAVITY less popular, isn't it? It is not our intentions to do so.

Just sayin what I would do... If I did all this work for gravity to turn my work down; I wouldn't want all my work to go to total waste;

And if I was him; I wouldn't advertise witch PS'erver got the work - thus not making Gravity loose anyone?


But yea... Some of this work for him to do imo is fine; such as map creation, and weapons - however when it comes to coding- I don't believe they would accept those submisions.

I highly recommend he talks to a REP before pursuing what he is planing (already started) doing.

[DestinyDeoxys]

I took it upon myself as a learning experience, fun, and self effort to help. So try not to be so negative, i understand if you want the game to stay the same and boring, but we dont

If only you want a learning experience, then go ahead, but if you actually want these things to be implemented, think twice before anything. I've foreseen the future that Gravity will not be updating the game anymore, but keep the Item Mall updates coming. Their content updates will come out at an extremely slow speed that it will make you laugh.

[LadyPsyber]

Actually, we already have user created content. YukiChan has actively released certain items that are available ingame. All that was needed was a butt load of paperwork that needed to be signed at the beginning and end.

Not to mention, a small contribution but a contribution none the less, the facial designs quite a while back.
So do not say never ever ever. Since if it is quality work and you are willing to sign away your rights to the content, then yes, there is a pretty decent likelyhood that it might get implemented.


Feuer, do not listen to the negative, pessimistic people. I know you can see the big picture while a lot of the people on the forum can't.

+1

We're talking about some bathing suits/facial and other small stuff. Feuer is talking about whole maps/worlds. Do you honestly think that they're going to allow that? Their own professional pride will shoot it down let alone all the other wrangling. Yuki has been involved in the community forever and they took some very small things from her.

The day these "programmers" (i mean snails) take in a mass of code/graphics from an external source is the day I stop calling the programmers idiots...and i'll be VERY surprised if that day ever comes.

[Feuer]

We're talking about some bathing suits/facial and other small stuff. Feuer is talking about whole maps/worlds. Do you honestly think that they're going to allow that? Their own professional pride will shoot it down let alone all the other wrangling. Yuki has been involved in the community forever and they took some very small things from her.

The day these "programmers" (i mean snails) take in a mass of code/graphics from an external source is the day I stop calling the programmers idiots...and i'll be VERY surprised if that day ever comes.

Yes it will be a trivial persuit however with the developers so overloaded in the IM content department, leaving no room for expansions, something has to be done from an outside perspective, not to mention i'm only doing this in most my free time / boredom. The game just sin't fun anymore, I troll/post & lurk these forums because of that.

Even if they do deny the content, i'll have learned how to do these things [also i don't remember who said it, but theres plenty of open source game engines in the world i dont have to build jack, ex. UDK] So I'm going to pursue it regardless if you call it ignorance or stupidity because it's the only option left to do.

However i broke my own vow on responding to this garbage, so here's an update.

Spoiler

Also @ raging, send me your contact/im info i'll see what you can do and if there's anything i can shoot your way.

Edited by Feuer, 17 July 2011 - 10:37 PM.

[paLDube]

goodluck to your project.. wish you all the best

[RobbyKay]

Yes it will be a trivial persuit however with the developers so overloaded in the IM content department, leaving no room for expansions, something has to be done from an outside perspective, not to mention i'm only doing this in most my free time / boredom. The game just sin't fun anymore, I troll/post & lurk these forums because of that.

Even if they do deny the content, i'll have learned how to do these things [also i don't remember who said it, but theres plenty of open source game engines in the world i dont have to build jack, ex. UDK] So I'm going to pursue it regardless if you call it ignorance or stupidity because it's the only option left to do.

However i broke my own vow on responding to this garbage, so here's an update.

Spoiler

Also @ raging, send me your contact/im info i'll see what you can do and if there's anything i can shoot your way.

I must say that that's looking absolutely fantastic!

Although I do, in certain aspects, agree with the critics above, I must state my respect for your ambitions. You're doing a great job as a part of the community, and in my opinion, seem dedicated enough to realize most of the things mentioned. If Gravity wouldn't accept your stuff, I'm sure that someone out there (private servers) will. Plus, as you mentioned: as an artist, practice is always useful (and surprisingly fun once you get sucked into it)!

Good luck!

[yeoldknight]

Yes it will be a trivial persuit however with the developers so overloaded in the IM content department, leaving no room for expansions, something has to be done from an outside perspective, not to mention i'm only doing this in most my free time / boredom. The game just sin't fun anymore, I troll/post & lurk these forums because of that.

Even if they do deny the content, i'll have learned how to do these things [also i don't remember who said it, but theres plenty of open source game engines in the world i dont have to build jack, ex. UDK] So I'm going to pursue it regardless if you call it ignorance or stupidity because it's the only option left to do.

However i broke my own vow on responding to this garbage, so here's an update.

Spoiler

Also @ raging, send me your contact/im info i'll see what you can do and if there's anything i can shoot your way.

That is amazing!! Very very good job !!

[Aviv4]

Shouldnt you just first check with Gravity if they will use it? It would close all that argue.

[yeoldknight]

I don't see why people can't just shut their mouths and watch what true passion for a game can do. What if he really does get it finished, and gravity decides to use it? How dumb will all of you feel then? What if he really has the potential to do it, and all of you pessimists try to tell him otherwise, and he decides not to do it. In any scenario, you need to just sit back and watch what he can do. What is it going to hurt for you to shut your mouth for a little while so he can work, and show you what he can actually do. If he can get enough done, I'm sure a GM or one of the Dev team will come by, see it, and decide to hire him, with or without pay, to work on this project. If the day comes and he can't get done, or they decide not to use it, that would be the day to say something. Not right as he starts, so you just get in his way of getting his project done. This is all I have to say, and I wish Feuer good luck, and all of you a good day.

[KingsBane]

Why are so many so negative. I think its a great idea. If it succeeds it will be great for all of us with the exception of the developers. All the posts I read recently about the state of the game get a roaring silence from gravity. Instead we get whining posts about how it cant work or how great this awesome update is. everyweek we get these awesome update posts when 99% of us know better. Some of the greatest games in the past had iffy graphix but game play was king. Rose has decent graphics and decent game play but its gone in reverse as far as content and fun are concerned so lets support this attempt to improve our game.

[CaNehDa]

I highly recommend he talks to a REP before pursuing what he is planing (already started) doing.

Shouldnt you just first check with Gravity if they will use it? It would close all that argue.