390 replies to this topic

[Kazra]

It wouldn't mess up their locks a little bit, it would completely mess it up. Just increase the cooldown so that they can't get an infinite lock going. Crosscut should increase in cooldown time since it's range, damage and effects are pretty OP.

[Kimimaro]

This just came to me but I think they need to change the knock down action so when you are knocked down, you can roll out of it instead of having to get back up in the same spot unable to do anything. That would pretty much mess up pallys lock a little bit unless the have reverse time on which then their mana would die very quickly anyway.

You can roll after being knocked down, the only reason why pallys can lock us is because most of their skills hit fallen opponents so what I think you meant to suggest is instead of changing the 'recovering animation' just nerf their attacks so it can't hit the floor.

[JoeDizzle]

It wouldn't mess up their locks a little bit, it would completely mess it up. Just increase the cooldown so that they can't get an infinite lock going. Crosscut should increase in cooldown time since it's range, damage and effects are pretty OP.

I think dps wise the broom stab is stronger than Crosscut only by a little bit but I'm not sure how it is after the patch feel free to correct me.

[to0n]

You can roll after being knocked down, the only reason why pallys can lock us is because most of their skills hit fallen opponents so what I think you meant to suggest is instead of changing the 'recovering animation' just nerf their attacks so it can't hit the floor.

Suwordu Dansu

[JoeDizzle]

@Kimimaro: The locks the pallys do you can't roll after you get hit by an SD or a Crosscut and Tear Armor Asunder is a good skill for locking but it hits ground at level 3 but what I was trying to get at is the action for getting up should be gone and just be able to roll after you drop so pallys can't wait that extra time for you to get up and attack and have to do it constantly. Maybe add a second of CD to broom and Crosscut wouldn't hurt either.

@to0n: Yea but sword dance doesn't hit ground enemies.

Edited by JoeDizzle, 25 August 2010 - 07:33 PM.

[to0n]

@to0n: Yea but sword dance doesn't hit ground enemies.

Thanks, didn't know that.

Edited by to0n, 25 August 2010 - 07:29 PM.

[Malevolet]

save us from this please My link

LV 41 paladin vs LV 46 Myrmidon, Lv45 Myrmidon

Edited by Malevolet, 25 August 2010 - 08:54 PM.

[Kazra]

Well, crosscut postpatch did like... 4.5k per hit on a 2k def char with a +8 oak. But anyways, I think broom jab CD should go back up a bit, and force the last hit to give a "real" knockdown, and same with Crosscut, having the last hit do a "real" knockdown. That way, you can still lock but you would be forced to cancel out the last hit, which lowers the dps and increases MP cost. Orrrrr just make crosscut deal damage and launch up, since the last animation is an upward swing iirc? That way the lock would lose alot of dps and will be less stable due to the reliance on SD.

[Gangrian]

Well, crosscut postpatch did like... 4.5k per hit on a 2k def char with a +8 oak. But anyways, I think broom jab CD should go back up a bit, and force the last hit to give a "real" knockdown, and same with Crosscut, having the last hit do a "real" knockdown. That way, you can still lock but you would be forced to cancel out the last hit, which lowers the dps and increases MP cost. Orrrrr just make crosscut deal damage and launch up, since the last animation is an upward swing iirc? That way the lock would lose alot of dps and will be less stable due to the reliance on SD.

Well, if the last hit is supposed to launch all the person can do is just action cancel SD and the lock continues with no hope of getting out.

And I for one, think that if all the hits don't connect then it should not cause untechable knock down.

Even with that stipulation it's still possible to lock. Why not make SD's CD like six seconds. Maybe more. And the other moves as well. But only in PvP. That way they can still PvE, but in PvP it's less about locking. Besides their damage is uppped anyways so those few hits they can get in will be good.

Though I am sure that people will find a way to lock people even with higher cool downs.


One should also note, that PvE and PvP are different. I think if the game devs were to look at it different instead of using the same CD's and AoE's and durations for both PvP and PvE, then a more useful modification of PvP could ensue.

PvP != PvE

!!!

[Kazra]

I know you can cancel the last hit by jumping, but it uses more MP, etc. But anyways, they can just make crosscut not able to be used in the lock, forcing them to lock with only SD, broom jab, and those TAA etc skills, which gives a higher chance of getting out.

[JoeDizzle]

I know you can cancel the last hit by jumping, but it uses more MP, etc. But anyways, they can just make crosscut not able to be used in the lock, forcing them to lock with only SD, broom jab, and those TAA etc skills, which gives a higher chance of getting out.

SD and Crosscut are the only moves a pally can really use to catch people. TAA you have to be in their grill to hit them and broom jab has no vertical range. It's gonna be tough balancing out pallys. >___>

[Kazra]

I know that lol, but there's also Aerial smackdown and spin it bear combined with crosscut. Anyways, you're saying that as if SD wasn't an OP enough catcher already lol. And crosscut's range is insane too... I really don't think that should be allowed to hit air.

[JoeDizzle]

Yea I know sword dance is pretty cheap but its all warriors really have early levels till they get stumble and crosscut.

Aerial smackdown SUCKS when there's lag which I'm hoping there wont be when the game gets here. I can rarely get my storm blade off after I aerial smackdown people when they lag.

[Kazra]

By aerial smackdown I mean comboing Crosscut right after or Spin it bear. SD is still pretty OP in high level PvP, so I don't get what you mean when you refer to lower levels?

[JoeDizzle]

Yea and I always forget about spin it bear i don't know any combinations with it but I would think you would use after smackdown.

And yea I'm kinda aiming towards lower levels too not just high level. Pallys really didn't have anything to catch people till crosscut other than sword dance while glads had stumblebum.

And yea SD is somewhat overpowered it should have a longer CD.

[xandiel]

Yea and I always forget about spin it bear i don't know any combinations with it but I would think you would use after smackdown.

spin it bear is a catch itself.

[Gangrian]

Catching people is not an issue for Pallies/Knights. They can survive without SD.

Believe me. They can, they have more than enough in their arsenal to catch people.

SD is probably the single most over powered move in PvP. Unless of course the patch nerfed it. (Crosses fingers)

The fact that they can action cancel it, and it's animation based is what bothers me. I would be fine with it not being able to be action canceled, and it only working in straight lines, and even after they used it, there was a delay between when they could move again. Maybe removing the action cancelable aspect of it, either that, or make it techable, and leave it as is. Which would be awesome. Lol.

[JoeDizzle]

Just saying that it is harder earlier levels to catch people without SD unless you have stumble and now spin it bear. The bros/bears aren't half bad either for catching people. And SD being as fast and cheap as it is brings me back to being able to roll out of being knocked down. What i mean by that is when a pally is locking, the enemy will usually stand back up when they get knocked down. If they could roll out of the way instead of standing up then it would be a little easier to escape the lock. The only lock skills they can use when on the ground is crosscut and the TTA at level 3. I guess they could use spin it bear too but that has like an 8 to 10 second cool down. -not sure-

SD needs a longer cooldown!

Also, not being able to cancel SD isn't a big problem for paladins because it is already so fast so its hardly noticeable when it cancels. For myrmidons, they would be slowed down alot from it.

Edited by JoeDizzle, 25 August 2010 - 10:54 PM.

[xandiel]

spin it bear is insta-proc, u can spam it like wm spam fire symbol to escape locks, and the cooldown reduces with level (@ level 5 is 5 seconds).

[JoeDizzle]

spin it bear is insta-proc, u can spam it like wm spam fire symbol to escape locks, and the cooldown reduces with level (@ level 5 is 5 seconds).

Well you were right, "Pally get what Pally want"

[xandiel]

Well you were right, "Pally get what Pally want"

its a quote from an old thread about this stuff on the thq*ice forums.

[JoeDizzle]

its a quote from an old thread about this stuff on the thq*ice forums.

Wasn't active on there really. I still think pvp is broken in general.

[xandiel]

Wasn't active on there really. I still think pvp is broken in general.

a better question is when has it ever been not broken?

[xandiel]

3 years from now should put a dent in it.

doubt it, SD has been complained about since the dawn of DO and nothings changed.

[Gangrian]

Just saying that it is harder earlier levels to catch people without SD unless you have stumble and now spin it bear. The bros/bears aren't half bad either for catching people. And SD being as fast and cheap as it is brings me back to being able to roll out of being knocked down. What i mean by that is when a pally is locking, the enemy will usually stand back up when they get knocked down. If they could roll out of the way instead of standing up then it would be a little easier to escape the lock. The only lock skills they can use when on the ground is crosscut and the TTA at level 3. I guess they could use spin it bear too but that has like an 8 to 10 second cool down. -not sure-

SD needs a longer cooldown!

Also, not being able to cancel SD isn't a big problem for paladins because it is already so fast so its hardly noticeable when it cancels. For myrmidons, they would be slowed down alot from it.

Pr0z0r paladins never give the opportunity to let you fall down. They keep you locked while you stand.

All of the moves needs(on Paladin) a longer cool down. SD should be techable.

Or at least have an animation time so long that using it would be ludicrous. I think two to three seconds would be good.

Also, any good person can continue a lock even if they are hit with FS. It's stun does not last long enough for a warmage to do anything to get away.

Because as it's over, the person can just hit SD, or another launcher. Or any number of moves. And it's not just warmages who have this issue.