152 replies to this topic

[Drewcifer]

So I read this thread and played around with my nydhoggurs and my asprika and besides the teleport ability my nyd in my opinion is much more useful for my rk than my asprika so I guess its a 800m tele clip after all

[asayuu]

magic no please........

Magic YES please. This is what everyone wants. Being mostly a PVM gear, if it does not help against monsters magic [Their strongest skills by far], it is useless.

The description says "reduces damage from ALL ELEMENTS". But if they reduce only physical, they lose the purpose of how they work. What works more with elements is magic. Nidhoggur is 7% physical AND magic. I will not talk about the sp bonus either but. This 7% magic reduction feels more than the 30% physical reduction from Asprika.

[Aeroku]

if you were to buff asprika's reduction to magic, might as well buff mvp's more.

mvp's are already very easy renewal wise and pretty much the appropriate class with proper gears and set up can solo. if you were to take out something that currently are the major difficulty for mvp's, mvp's will more or less become just like a normal monster.

[IronFist]

I have to disagree.

Look most garment cards effect is to reduce 1 element by 30%, sure some add flee, maybe the odd stat point
BUT the massive amount of garment cards relate to elemental defense

I dont think god items should be the start all and end all item, they should be situational

Its a shame no MVP cards slot into garments, but a brihn is hardly the best armour or even suited for most situations, personally they are as useful as a glorious armour without the set



JUST CAUSE ITS A "GOD" ITEM DOESNT MEAN IT SHOULD HAVE EVERY CARD EFFECT UNDER THE SUN!


Learn to compromise (hell i disagree with it reducing neutral damage... kinda kills deviling card's effects) Neutral isnt an element... its "elementless"

Edited by IronFist, 24 October 2011 - 03:52 AM.

[asayuu]

if you were to buff asprika's reduction to magic, might as well buff mvp's more.

mvp's are already very easy renewal wise and pretty much the appropriate class with proper gears and set up can solo. if you were to take out something that currently are the major difficulty for mvp's, mvp's will more or less become just like a normal monster.

It is not a buff, it is a repair.

MVPs need to be repaired too. And it's not making they have more "killer moves" that will make they stronger. But more "gimnick moves". Debuffs like Critical Wounds, Hell's Judgement, Vampire's Gift, some healing/high healing without cast time, Shield Reflect [or even Reflect Damage, to make madness in AOE]

Hell~~~~ it would be even fun if they could cast Saturday Night Fever~! 15 seconds of full block of ANY healing item~~~~~~ giving some bonus attack but eating flee.

And therefore MVP's reward should be repaired too. Beel's exp reward was 3x better on pre-renewal than it is now. It was 6.6m, unlike the actual 2m.

And if possible, new loot for them would be good. But new good loot. *points to Weihna and Erde and laughs at both*

[Aeroku]

It is not a buff, it is a repair.

MVPs need to be repaired too. And it's not making they have more "killer moves" that will make they stronger. But more "gimnick moves". Debuffs like Critical Wounds, Hell's Judgement, Vampire's Gift, some healing/high healing without cast time, Shield Reflect [or even Reflect Damage, to make madness in AOE]

Hell~~~~ it would be even fun if they could cast Saturday Night Fever~! 15 seconds of full block of ANY healing item~~~~~~ giving some bonus attack but eating flee.

And therefore MVP's reward should be repaired too. Beel's exp reward was 3x better on pre-renewal than it is now. It was 6.6m, unlike the actual 2m.

And if possible, new loot for them would be good. But new good loot. *points to Weihna and Erde and laughs at both*

its really not easy to just go off and randomly fix things. asprika has quite an appropriate effect for its obtainability. there's so many asprikas around, "repair" is really not the word for it. (note i still do agree to a small 'buff' that can be made to asprika, but only to a certain limited effect.)

whether mvp needs more gimmicky moves or not, what really matters to high lvl people is its difficulty to be killed. at the end it'll probably still be solo'ed whether it does more hell judgement and so.

some mvp reward is cheap and useless, but you can't expect every single loot in the whole ro to be useful. that's pretty stupid. mvp's reward is fine as it is especially when you compare to how easy it is...to kill them. even bio3 lvl 160 monster is probably harder than any mvp (except bio3 mvp, but those aren't even rewarding enough to bother) you can find in the game and yet isn't as rewarding as most other mvp does.

Edited by Aeroku, 24 October 2011 - 03:17 AM.

[asayuu]

It worked on that way on pre-renewal. Not working this way now makes it be a damaged god item, the repair term is the right because most just want a rollback to the original settings. I don't mind pushing to something a little weaker than the original settings.

Maybe the amount of these kinds of god items increased because the "quest" to make them got easier [not because the quest got weaker, but the characters able to do the quest got stronger, and the quest did not changed to fit these settings. Not sure though]

MVPs are very easy for some character settings. But what makes a MVP hard? I think only HP and damage is not sufficient.

[Aeroku]

okolnir is somewhat fine as it is, it doesn't changed much in terms of difficulty (some stuff become easier, some harder). 1 hr limit, takes an average of 30 minutes to do with proper setup enough people. without good setups and characters, maze can take a long time and may even fail the run. the term obtain-ability applies to the items required to make the god item.

and when i said asprika needs a buff instead of a repair, is because mvp's pretty much got nerfed renewal wise. if they were "original" like pre-re, it would be a lot harder than it is now. mvp's doesn't become easier just because characters gets buffed with 3rd class, but its hp were reduced and so its attack power (eg wounded morroc and some other). if you want asprika "repair" to its original condition, then do the same to mvp's.

[CeruleanGamer]

magic no please........

Magic damage formula needs a fix, not Asprika.

[Zinja]

Its Pretty Needless to Point out That every one wanting the buff has it already. The Niche of it Being a God item was long lost with the people being able to mass produce it.

I am sure there a Lots of Older Once Awesome gears that every one wants buffed.

This isn't about the Status symbol and the honor of having one ,a trophy to show your achievements in woe.

No This is about the PURE Greed of wanting something like +25 vit and or +25 agi on an item few people have in Immense quantities.

In a constantly evolving mmorpg. There will always be new gears better and powerful than the existing ones. This gives players the drive to acquire new ones. and the others to compete with the older ones on a seemingly balanced footing.

Cry babies will always desperately try to hold on to their precious once great gear/achievements and still try to be at an powerful advantage over other players without actually putting effort.

Evolution is nice as long as you have the upper hand right?

[Kadelia]

tldr @ whatever Xellie said.

I wear an unfrozen water armor @ ktull and it doesn't kill me, if you need 5% more redux from a leather of tendrillion to survive, something is very wrong. Its easy to stack magical water resist, so getting 100% easier with asprika in woe would be a major PVP boost to a garment that isn't actually very rare anymore. Asprika and brynhilldr are nowhere near as difficult to get as megingjard/mjolnir, so it makes sense they aren't as strong. It was obvious on iris and ymir, and its becoming this way on yggdrasil too, that woe 2.0 items churn out more than 2x as often as woe 1.0 items. It makes sense for them to be somewhat weaker. Asprika is overall the best garment to wear in PVM, and if it applied to magic and physical it would be the best overall in every field of play, period, asking for more than that seems to be absurd to me. I'd stand behind the argument that it should reduce magic and physical at the same time, hbut thats about it. None of this other stuff like +10 vit or 40% neutral, etc., people have suggested.

Edited by Inubashiri, 24 October 2011 - 07:02 AM.
Take personal disagreements to PMs

[Myzery]

tldr @ whatever Xellie said.

I wear an unfrozen water armor @ ktull and it doesn't kill me, if you need 5% more redux from a leather of tendrillion to survive, something is very wrong. Its easy to stack magical water resist, so getting 100% easier with asprika in woe would be a major PVP boost to a garment that isn't actually very rare anymore. Asprika and brynhilldr are nowhere near as difficult to get as megingjard/mjolnir, so it makes sense they aren't as strong. It was obvious on iris and ymir, and its becoming this way on yggdrasil too, that woe 2.0 items churn out more than 2x as often as woe 1.0 items. It makes sense for them to be somewhat weaker. Asprika is overall the best garment to wear in PVM, and if it applied to magic and physical it would be the best overall in every field of play, period, asking for more than that seems to be absurd to me. I'd stand behind the argument that it should reduce magic and physical at the same time, hbut thats about it. None of this other stuff like +10 vit or 40% neutral, etc., people have suggested.

This is pretty much a liberal forum where everyone expects handouts and knows if they complain enough a GM safety net will catch them.
I think a gimmicky effect would be fine and that's it.

Edited by Inubashiri, 24 October 2011 - 07:17 AM.
soap and water on the quote

[Zinja]

I shudder to think how many storage's full of Asprika the Ymir Asprika mint[Insert the name here] has hoarded. and continues to do so every other hour.

[Xellie]

JUST CAUSE ITS A "GOD" ITEM DOESNT MEAN IT SHOULD HAVE EVERY CARD EFFECT UNDER THE SUN!

As it stands right now, it doesn't even have the same affect as those cards. It reduces far less. It needs to actually do the reductions it's supposed to. Sit down with an asprika and try it. It actually does NOT do much of anything at all.

okolnir is somewhat fine as it is, it doesn't changed much in terms of difficulty (some stuff become easier, some harder). 1 hr limit, takes an average of 30 minutes to do with proper setup enough people. without good setups and characters, maze can take a long time and may even fail the run. the term obtain-ability applies to the items required to make the god item.

and when i said asprika needs a buff instead of a repair, is because mvp's pretty much got nerfed renewal wise. if they were "original" like pre-re, it would be a lot harder than it is now. mvp's doesn't become easier just because characters gets buffed with 3rd class, but its hp were reduced and so its attack power (eg wounded morroc and some other). if you want asprika "repair" to its original condition, then do the same to mvp's.

The problem I think, is a lack of competition. But if the server should get a flood of competition, or if a guild who don't have asprikas set out to try and make one, would asprika be worth the reward? Nope! The ease of creating an asprika is a byproduct of the way the community acts, not a byproduct of the game.
If I was to come back suddenly with a 40 person strong guild (I could, but you know, RO, effort) I know already it would be an extremely difficult task for me to create as Asprika simply against the competition I would be facing. Not being in an established alliance or having farmed up 10 trillion god items already. Of course it's easy for those in that position.

Its Pretty Needless to Point out That every one wanting the buff has it already. The Niche of it Being a God item was long lost with the people being able to mass produce it.

I am sure there a Lots of Older Once Awesome gears that every one wants buffed.

This isn't about the Status symbol and the honor of having one ,a trophy to show your achievements in woe.

No This is about the PURE Greed of wanting something like +25 vit and or +25 agi on an item few people have in Immense quantities.

In a constantly evolving mmorpg. There will always be new gears better and powerful than the existing ones. This gives players the drive to acquire new ones. and the others to compete with the older ones on a seemingly balanced footing.

Cry babies will always desperately try to hold on to their precious once great gear/achievements and still try to be at an powerful advantage over other players without actually putting effort.

Evolution is nice as long as you have the upper hand right?

Zinja, that is pretty rude. It's about keeping rewards equal with effort. Are you still in absolution? Start telling me that guild would put in the effort required to make an item that actually only does what it's supposed to on a handful of attacks in the game. I'm not even talking about magic vs physical here, I'm talking about how it only reduces a small percentage of physical attacks too.

The item is BROKEN. And not in the good way. A deviling costs more on the market than asprika, and you can get that by spamming OCAs. 500 mil is nothing nowadays. What does this tell you?

Just to adress this tho, if anyone thinks this is "I own an asprika bias", it's not - I couldn't care less what happens to Asprika because I don't use it. I can carry on doing what I'm doing as is, with GTBs, boss cards, miniboss cards and I should actually campaign against Asprika being fixed because it might actually topple the advantage I have over other people.

SHAME on me for wanting people to have a chance at doing the same things I do.

WoE being inactive is a community problem. People not competing in WoE is a community problem. If WoE was active as it should be, it would take people over a year to compete enough to create econ. That is NO REASON for an ITEM to NOT WORK. God item or not.

I'd stand behind the argument that it should reduce magic and physical at the same time, hbut thats about it.

So, you agree that the exact thing I think it should do is what it should do. I'm glad the community is able to agree in an unbiased manner about such issues, even when they have clashing personalities :3
It means a lot to have your support in this matter!

I shudder to think how many storage's full of Asprika the Ymir Asprika mint[Insert the name here] has hoarded. and continues to do so every other hour.

It's sad indeed. Go compete against them. It's WoE. Woe is WAR. War mean go kill them, stop them. It's not a problem with the game, it's a problem with the people.

Again, I reiterate this, people who own asprikas are the ones that know it isn't working as intended. You may have heard it got fixed on kRO recently, we kinda... need that patch on iRO if this is true.

Edited by Xellie, 24 October 2011 - 07:21 AM.

[Xellie]

Too long of a post to edit, but yes, MVPs need repairing.

But with the Matk = atk thing that goes on for mvps, I can see that with a little buffing in terms of atk on some mvps would cause some mvps to be impossible without GTB. This is obviously something that needs to be avoided.

And it's a problem with renewal.

mvps clearly need something along the lines of more HP and AI changes, but not to the extent that only gtb wearers can kill them. Asprika would be a nice balancer to this if fixed.

[brothersfree]

can you link the "recent fix on kRO for asprika"?

[Xellie]

Actually no, it's just something I heard from the community. Which I hope is true, because it only working on a few attacks is sorta stupid X_X

If not I stand by my original post 110%.

[HRdevil]

The fixes will come when all classes are nerfed.

[Minchi]

The fixes will come when all classes are nerfed.

Havent used a god item since pre renewal. Used Asprika last woe. Switched back to nyd.....Wtf is this.

[IronFist]

What your purposing is this
ASPRIKA = Creamy Card, Orc Baby Card, Raydric Card, Whisper Card, Hode Card, Isis Card, Jakk Card, Marionette Card, Marse Card, Myst Card, Orc Zombie Card

ARE YOU INSANE!! not going to happen

Edited by IronFist, 24 October 2011 - 08:32 AM.

[HRdevil]

What your purposing is this
ASPRIKA = Creamy Card, Orc Baby Card, Raydric Card, Whisper Card, Hode Card, Isis Card, Jakk Card, Marionette Card, Marse Card, Myst Card, Orc Zombie Card

ARE YOU INSANE!! not going to happen

Brynhild has MVP RCX card so why not?

[Aeroku]

The problem I think, is a lack of competition. But if the server should get a flood of competition, or if a guild who don't have asprikas set out to try and make one, would asprika be worth the reward? Nope! The ease of creating an asprika is a byproduct of the way the community acts, not a byproduct of the game.
If I was to come back suddenly with a 40 person strong guild (I could, but you know, RO, effort) I know already it would be an extremely difficult task for me to create as Asprika simply against the competition I would be facing. Not being in an established alliance or having farmed up 10 trillion god items already. Of course it's easy for those in that position.

that would be 1 reason. you can see how woe depends on tremendous amount of supplies in order for guilds to compete and simply put, the one who can't afford to woe are ones that won't be able to compete in owning god items to a certain extent. once a server has been running woe for years and years to come, one that reigns in the server would pretty much gets (almost) the auto-win stamp on their emblem. this supply problem is what needs to be fixed and the fix itself isn't that easy. there could be an update such as giving out free supplies that can only be used in woe time/realms so that guilds and players who actually has the skill can compete, but that would screw the ro economy big time; unless that can be put in thought and be overcomed somehow.

not that this thread is about woe topic or anything, but creating changes like buffing asprika does have to be talked in a fair manner as there are other things that may directly/indirectly related to the changes. such indirectly manner include how asprikas are created through okolnir; which relate to castles and woe's, plus other stuff that don't need to be mentioned.

Edited by Aeroku, 24 October 2011 - 10:23 AM.

[Tigra]

So I read this thread and played around with my nydhoggurs and my asprika and besides the teleport ability my nyd in my opinion is much more useful for my rk than my asprika so I guess its a 800m tele clip after all

Can you find me someone selling an Asprika for 800m?

[xinn]

What your purposing is this
ASPRIKA = Creamy Card, Orc Baby Card, Raydric Card, Whisper Card, Hode Card, Isis Card, Jakk Card, Marionette Card, Marse Card, Myst Card, Orc Zombie Card

ARE YOU INSANE!! not going to happen

..... half of these cards reduce damage to elements and are better in every way cause they reduce physical and "MAGIC" so no in no way is asprika as good as those cards

[IronFist]

..... half of these cards reduce damage to elements and are better in every way cause they reduce physical and "MAGIC" so no in no way is asprika as good as those cards

read the top line >> (inblue)

Edited by IronFist, 24 October 2011 - 11:12 AM.