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Upgrade Event, and future developments


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#26 Om1x

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:06 AM

Is there some easy way to get KVM stuff that I'm missing? I check off and on and never see anyone actually doing the PVP BGs, so the only way to get badges seems to be trading in merit badges (which you only get from gramps turnins (?), and even then very slowly). Did I miss some vital solution somewhere? Can't even manage to get the stuff let alone upgrade it, but I guess that could be that just the majority of people got their stuff and stopped bothering with bgs.
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#27 Cedric

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:06 AM

i think is 10% to get it from +8-+9 and +9-+10, its propably lower or higher, im not sure, but alot of ppl said is 10%


Its still the same 10% with this new upgrade event? XD
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#28 HayrohsLegacy

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:07 AM

Good b-day gift for me /thx
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#29 Unifan

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:10 AM

Is there some easy way to get KVM stuff that I'm missing? I check off and on and never see anyone actually doing the PVP BGs, so the only way to get badges seems to be trading in merit badges (which you only get from gramps turnins (?), and even then very slowly). Did I miss some vital solution somewhere? Can't even manage to get the stuff let alone upgrade it, but I guess that could be that just the majority of people got their stuff and stopped bothering with bgs.


when the seal rolls after the god item was made, seal quest is reseted and you can do seal quest and it gives kvm badges as rewards, also you can reset your seal quest status by using reset stone on the divorce npc.

Rewards

Seal 1 : 80kvm badge (random seal 1 headgear)
Seal 2 : 40kvm badge (Tonz of exp)
Seal 3 : 40kvm badge (Decent exp + OCA)
Seal 4 : 40kvm badge (random lvl 4 weapons)
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#30 Anchors

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:11 AM

This sounds like a nice opportunity for players like myself who don't participate in PvP/WoE to justify upgrading past 7 to themselves (got a few things I'd like to +9), but I'm a tad confused over the following statements:

What I "think" we would do is give an option when he is upgrading to "enhance with Enriched" while you are going back and forth with the HD Ore. (or come up with a token where you trade in 1 HD + 1 Enriched to get the token). (1)

Hammer wouldn't allow you to use Enriched unless it helped; eg armor drops to +3, won't allow enriched to be used since it is 100% chance to go back to +4.
if using both to upgrade zeny cost would be 0. (2)

The big thing I want to happen with it is on the +9 -> 10 and the 10+ upgrades. Right now the "enriched" chance doesn't help enough to warrant the extra cost, but what I want to do is when doing Enriched it does a "double attempt" before degrading, So it would almost be a double current rate on those. (3)


(1), (2) Would the purpose, then, of those tokens to be able to do a "combo ore" upgrade where you have enriched success chance, HD's non-breaking/downgrading-on-fail properties, and a zero-zeny upgrade fee? Or am I totally misinterpreting these statements?

(3) A "double attempt" meaning first attempt: success = upgrade+1, fail = second attempt, second attempt: success = upgrade+1, fail = upgrade-1 with each ore or token or whatever?

---

As for the market, I would have expected that the increase of the upgrade limit to +20 would indirectly make anything much lower more common, as the move to having the new super-rare, you-almost-never-see-them items becoming those items upgraded to somewhere between +12 and +20 would require some kind of overall improved accessibility to +10 (due to the already low refine rates followed by all the 10% success chances past +10)... In other words, having the possibility of reaching +20 must be accompanied by a more realistic possibility of reaching +10, no? On what criteria are claims indicating that it is somehow "wrong" for the new +4 to be any higher than +4 based?

@Unifan: Which items were the ones that went from 60M to under 25M?

@Hrishi: "Most of us have gear you'll never have in your lifetime," "This is just bad for game balance, the last thing we need are more [spenders] with higher upgrades..." I'm not sure how it's a balance issue if the majority continues to be the majority, just in higher numbers...? But that aside, how would partially bridging the gap between players who already have nice gear and players who don't a balance issue? I'm afraid I don't understand.

@Codface: Where did that 66% come from...?

Honestly, my only major concern is whether the Kafra shop will, at any point after this update, feature Kafra-shop-only gear that has ridiculously overpowered effects at upgrades of 12+...
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#31 Heimdallr

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:11 AM

This guy will only go to +9, he won't do any enhanced upgrade to +10 so I don't want to waste your resources when it is the same chance as HD.
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#32 Om1x

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:12 AM

when the seal rolls after the god item was made, seal quest is reseted and you can do seal quest and it gives kvm badges as rewards, also you can reset your seal quest status by using reset stone on the divorce npc.

Rewards

Seal 1 : 80kvm badge (random seal 1 headgear)
Seal 2 : 40kvm badge (Tonz of exp)
Seal 3 : 40kvm badge (Decent exp + OCA)
Seal 4 : 40kvm badge (random lvl 4 weapons)


Can you reset more than once? Might give me something to kill some time with.
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#33 Hrishi

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:15 AM

@Anchors: You misunderstand me, by nice gear I didn't mean in terms of upgrades. Try to imagine this. The difference between a +4 Valkyrian Armor and a +12 Valkyrian Armor is simply a bunch of kafra points. So are we not supposed to play this game and simply buy our gear through kafra points? The way I see it, I only need to kill Valk once, get an armor, buy points and I don't need to play anymore to get that gear. Repeat this process for each gear slot and I'm done with gears too, so what exactly is left for me to play for?
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#34 Xellie

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:19 AM

The problem with +9 being the new +4 is that when someone tries to go above +9, they can do it without breaking their items. You need ONE item to take it to +9 and beyond. This is what is wrong.


this this this this this this this this this
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#35 IronFist

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:22 AM

@Anchors: You misunderstand me, by nice gear I didn't mean in terms of upgrades. Try to imagine this. The difference between a +4 Valkyrian Armor and a +12 Valkyrian Armor is simply a bunch of kafra points. So are we not supposed to play this game and simply buy our gear through kafra points? The way I see it, I only need to kill Valk once, get an armor, buy points and I don't need to play anymore to get that gear. Repeat this process for each gear slot and I'm done with gears too, so what exactly is left for me to play for?


Now, what would you rather... +7 valk armour with +3 str, or your +12 valk armour?

Heim has said hes surprised that people have made +14 gear, BUT in context they still have a far way to go to hit +20
Before renewal +10 was he limit, it was possible but most good gear was around +7 with basic gear +4

Whats changed? basic gear +9 (4.5) +14 (7) and well +20... (+10) was always hard...
We are constantly moving forward, dont hinder the process just jump on the bandwagon and go with the flow
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#36 Unifan

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:22 AM

@ anchors: i use to camp valk, the armor it self use to sell for 60m a piece in ymir, ive stop camping em for cpl months now, due to the fact that im getting broke killing them, then making profit, knowing that i can't sell all the armors/mant/shoes. so i have a storage full of them. when i was still camping them, the damage was done, but there was no safe cert, which makes the armor worth something that u can stats and upgrade with it breaking. and now its gone down to 25m, because they introduce a bloody branch box and a safe cert box in kafra shop. i didn't expect them to add them, and my storage full of armors are now worth 25m each and its still doesn't sell. im not trying to be greedy, but for all those effort, investment i put in to camp, it was worth nothing. you can sell fireblend for more then how much valkmant/shoes worth, which is just ridicilous.

@Omnix

yes you can reset it as many times you want to farm. as long as you have reset stones and the seal item required to do the seal quest with
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#37 Xellie

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:23 AM

Now, what would you rather... +7 valk armour with +3 str, or your +12 valk armour?

Heim has said hes surprised that people have made +14 gear, BUT in context they still have a far way to go to hit +20
Before renewal +10 was he limit, it was possible but most good gear was around +7 with basic gear +4

Whats changed? basic gear +9 (4.5) +14 (7) and well +20... (+10) was always hard...
We are constantly moving forward, dont hinder the process just jump on the bandwagon and go with the flow



irrelevant. That +7 valk armor with 3 str can be +12 with no risk or loss.
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#38 HRdevil

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:24 AM

Is there some easy way to get KVM stuff that I'm missing? I check off and on and never see anyone actually doing the PVP BGs, so the only way to get badges seems to be trading in merit badges (which you only get from gramps turnins (?), and even then very slowly). Did I miss some vital solution somewhere? Can't even manage to get the stuff let alone upgrade it, but I guess that could be that just the majority of people got their stuff and stopped bothering with bgs.



You can't have any easier ways than what you have now. In the ol' days, I had made 6 diferent accounts and made chars Lv.80 futuree slave for the sole purpose of farming KVM. Now, you have it easy... MVPinng, Seals, Turn ins, Boxes and you still want to find a way to get it much easier!? /facepalm

EDIT: And its more like +7 is the new +4 since +9 requires some effort$ from the guy that sells you HD or you, yourself buying it.

@Hayroh, Enjoy your B-day. Don't let Mighty Money Hammer ruin it for you.

I'm actually glad there are fungineers like Hrishi and Xellie.

Edited by HRdevil, 09 November 2011 - 01:31 AM.

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#39 HayrohsLegacy

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:25 AM

irrelevant. That +7 valk armor with 3 str can be +12 with no risk or loss.


Wrong you still lose KPs and $... :mellow:
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#40 MrBudd

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:26 AM

[sarcasm]great........[/sarcasm]
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#41 IronFist

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:26 AM

As for buying upgrades
Well, if your testing stuff you dont go out and give everyone it, you give it to the people who will appreciate it the most, if you spend 1-2 hours working just to pay for your ingame item, well...
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#42 Xellie

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:28 AM

I don't understand how these NOOBS don't get it.

Gear HAS to break in order to keep MVP drops valuable.

How else will zeny circulate around the community without it all being a matter of kafra drops?

PLAYING becomes irrelevant

You could just be buying characters and items.
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#43 Anchors

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:28 AM

@Hrishi: I see... So, if a player is hunting exclusively for him-/herself for upgradable gears, it removes a significant portion of non-WoE endgame for that player. But isn't the only difference with the proposed changes (in summary, to make +9 more accessible), now that the safe-to-7 certs all over the place, just that you'd need less KP to reach that +9? The existence of HD ores combined with the safe-to-7 certs already eliminates the need to risk gear breakage on the upgrade scene, right?

For a valuable item like a Valkyrie Armor, I think players are already using break-risk-free upgrade means. It's just that they're spending more on HDs now than they would be with buffed enriched ores. The only place where they are still losing any specific gear is at the enchanter, and this update doesn't affect that at all since final enchanting must be done before final upgrading (or enchanting will cause the upgrade to disappear).
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#44 Hulk

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:32 AM

so that means enriched can only go to +9 if you wanna upgrade it to +10 you have to use HD ore. so the only enhanced part of upgrading is +7 to +9. +9 to +10 is still the same.
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#45 Anchors

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:33 AM

@Unifan: That sucks - you invested in farming a particular item and the investment didn't work out due to outside influences and the fact that market flooding on a small server has more severe repercussions. But in that case, isn't the direct cause of the price drop the fact that Valk Armors have now flooded the Ymir market? I'm not sure why having an easier time reaching +9 will cause any further market distress in a case like this.
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#46 Codface

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:34 AM

"Hrishi, on 09 November 2011 - 09:01 AM, said:

The problem with +9 being the new +4 is that when someone tries to go above +9, they can do it without breaking their items. You need ONE item to take it to +9 and beyond. This is what is wrong."

If I checked your Ropd profile and Merchant characters I wouldnt happen to find you sell alot of Diabolus gear would I?

Problem with the high end stuff thats not KVM is that it all comes off 1-2 Mvp bosses that spawn once every 12hours and are heavily camped. This means the average player will never ever see them even if they get 150. While a select few see them twice a day every day. Those are the people that cry every time things are stopped from breaking since they lose out on multiple sales on items they hold a server monopoly on. Thats not a good way to base an economy.

If your going to introduce a token that gives Enriched Rates though I'd suggest that it costs 1 EDM + 1 enriched. This makes it a mix so people have to play to get those rates and means the alternate for high paying players is just to take the HD road who dont want to grind badges while the rest of us can do the eden mark quests and then buy some Enriched off the market.
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#47 Zinja

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:34 AM

Purpose is to see if we can lower the frustration with the upgrading while not completely killing off the business side of things. I'll be honest upgrading is a major game mechanic for economy as well as our game support.

Posted Image
Posted Image

I'll be honest upgrading is a major game mechanic for economy as well as our game support.

We appreciate your honestly , we really do.
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#48 Xellie

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:38 AM

"Hrishi, on 09 November 2011 - 09:01 AM, said:

The problem with +9 being the new +4 is that when someone tries to go above +9, they can do it without breaking their items. You need ONE item to take it to +9 and beyond. This is what is wrong."

If I checked your Ropd profile and Merchant characters I wouldnt happen to find you sell alot of Diabolus gear would I?

Problem with the high end stuff thats not KVM is that it all comes off 1-2 Mvp bosses that spawn once every 12hours and are heavily camped. This means the average player will never ever see them even if they get 150. While a select few see them twice a day every day. Those are the people that cry every time things are stopped from breaking since they lose out on multiple sales on items they hold a server monopoly on. Thats not a good way to base an economy.

If your going to introduce a token that gives Enriched Rates though I'd suggest that it costs 1 EDM + 1 enriched. This makes it a mix so people have to play to get those rates and means the alternate for high paying players is just to take the HD road who dont want to grind badges while the rest of us can do the eden mark quests and then buy some Enriched off the market.


He does not camp SM.

I share this stance and you're welcome to check my vendors.

ROPD :
http://ropd.info/?na...vel&dir=asc&s=4
http://ropd.info/?na...vel&dir=asc&s=4
http://ropd.info/?na...vel&dir=asc&s=4
http://ropd.info/?na...vel&dir=asc&s=4
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#49 Unifan

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:39 AM

@Unifan: That sucks - you invested in farming a particular item and the investment didn't work out due to outside influences and the fact that market flooding on a small server has more severe repercussions. But in that case, isn't the direct cause of the price drop the fact that Valk Armors have now flooded the Ymir market? I'm not sure why having an easier time reaching +9 will cause any further market distress in a case like this.


your wrong, thats not the exact point i tried to make, the point i try to make is that, there is no need to hunt mvps (like valk) to make zeny, Valk loots its been flooded for years, but for years, the armor it self, sells for alot of zeny and never was a problem until the safe upgrade were introduce. i never say having an easier +9 are causing the market distress, if you read properly i said, items that worth 60m are now worth 25m because of safe cert and bloody branch box that were introduced. please read more before you make your statements
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#50 Hrishi

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:39 AM

"If I checked your Ropd profile and Merchant characters I wouldnt happen to find you sell alot of Diabolus gear would I?


No you wouldn't, I used to do this in pre-renewal and don't have the time to wake up every 8 hours/12 hours to camp said MvPs. However, if you don't see how gear not breaking is a huge issue and leads to the demand on any type of gear being reduced to bill, I don't know what to say. And yea, go nuts : http://ropd.info/?account=3479703

Edited by Hrishi, 09 November 2011 - 01:40 AM.

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