318 replies to this topic

[Lambor]

GMs. Just answer one question for me.

Is there a chance that the cooldown on ales will be changed as a result of this thread?

If I turn my ales into Yggs and my guildies do as well, after we spent so much on them, and then the cooldown gets lifted.... Ill quit. Please give some enlightenment as to what's gonna happen.

Adding in the ygg exchange is one thing, but adding it in with the possibility of ales being changed again is something else.

I basically blew guild zeny on ales before this maint to stock up. And now I have to throw it away to overpay on Yggs since the exchange rate is terrible.

Just answer that so I know what to do. And so people know to spend time voting or not.

[fenryl]

No offense but I'm having a hard time understanding whats going on.. why is there a poll if a solution is already in place? why would anyone turn in their ales for seeds if one of the poll options is : "current Ales gain to 25 weight and tradable " . Honestly i don't care anymore what the gms do with our ales because with 14.1, seeds, berries, ales etc will have a huge delay on them.. but I wanted to point out the contradiction.

Edit: will the winner of the poll actually be implemented? ( i m fairly against polls like this.. its like asking kids if they d rather eat candy or healthy meals all day...)

Edited by fenryl, 09 November 2011 - 03:40 PM.

[Lambor]

It's gonna be a MASSIVE slap in the face if the most popular isn't implemented. Rofl.

[Tigra]

this game sucks idk why I play it.

[Aeroku]

what's useless about poll like this is that there are more new players who plays no role in the change of green ales vs veterans who actually knows this game.

in the end, vote would go towards the new people just cos there are more of them.

[sakurawings1]

This is dumb, they shouldve just stick with the plan.

[Dreimdal]

GM Team, here's a plan to help you get out of this mess:

First and foremost: Gradual and inform. Players need better advanced notice when it comes to game changes. This is the paramount rule of making your customers happy and ensuring that they trust you.

Second: Testing. From now on, use sakray to test changes for at least a week before putting them into the game proper. Receive feedback from the testers. If you solicit the general forum, you'll be overloaded with information and opinions. That's too much for you guys to handle. So please stop making threads that anyone can post in. The loudest voices will always be the ones with the most to lose, and that's because they care most about what's in their own best interest, not what's in the best interest of the game as a whole. Let me be clear, you still need to inform us and make sure that everyone knows what's going, to the best of your ability, but I think you should seriously reconsider making anymore threads like this one. We really don't need threads where only a fraction of the player base will have input (forum users), and only a fraction of that input will be rational and useful (level-headed forum users not thinking selfishly).

Third: Enable. For the sake of people who want to take part in testing upcoming changes and give feedback on those changes, create a webpage on the site that gives a step-by-step hand-holding guide for them to get the Sakray client, and install it and patch it properly.

Fourth: Condense. You'll need a better way of condensing the information you receive. Currently, this is overwhelming feedback and you need a better way of narrowing it down. To clear the current backlog, I'd suggest dividing the work as best you can. That means that you'll need a better way to see which ideas are being repeated and liked, so you don't waste time seeing the same advice over-and-over again.

Fifth: Lock this thread and temporarily get help in reading all of your private messages. Make frequent in-game announcements to the effect of "We are sorry for making changes too suddenly and without enough advanced notice. In the meantime, please don't do anything rash, such as speculative buying and selling. Yes, we've made mistakes, but we will do our best to resolve this in a way that causes the least amount of suffering possible." Send out an email newsletter to the same effect. Promise to make positive reform and then follow through on it.

Sixth: Polls. The only problem with polls is that, generally, only the people with a stake will vote. That means the results will be skewed in favor of narrow interests, rather than the best interest of the game as a whole. Something to keep in mind when polling...

Sincere apologies and a sincere resolve to do the right thing, and a plan to carry it out, will help restore confidence and trust. But, you must make sure to follow through if you say you'll do something, and that means not changing it at the last second. Again, to re-emphasize the golden rule of pleasing your player-base and maintaining their trust in you, any changes should be gradual and have enough advanced warning.

Yes, this whole thing was a bit of a mess, but it's not too late to salvage it.


If you do this, you will regain the players trust, and *that* is the most valuable thing for you, as the service provider. Do not break the players' trust. If your customers trust you, they will stay with you longer, even through the painful changes.

P.S. I understand, through certain postings, that you're wary of giving too much advanced notice of change, lest the botters "catch on", but this is a mistake. I assure you that your players' trust in you is far more important than catching the botters by surprise. The botters don't earn you money. They are very much tangiental to your main focus of rebuilding and maintaining trust.

Edited by Dreimdal, 09 November 2011 - 04:45 PM.

[DarkDan]

After trying out the 10 sec cool down on the ales, I vote that a cool down on any hp/sp recovery item is ridiculous.

Maybe somebody can explain to me why this nerf is needed?

I woe with ales/yggs and die a lot. I have a 150 RG and Sura(with above average equips). I can get by without them on my RG and I can see why some people that play RG/RK might not like ales(gives them a advantage). I can also see why some melee classes(GX)hate being outpotted.

What about the squishy classes(genetic,warlock,ranger,etc...)? If you play a class like this, why in the world do you want to take away hp recovery items? Doesn't seem like much fun dying over and over again while you try to outpot/counter a RG/RK/GX with slims.

Sura seems to take the biggest hit. See a lot less Gfist but the class still has cursed circle/gate of hell.

Are people so pissed at gfist that they would hurt their own classes chance at survival to reduce it?

I haven't been on as long as some people(little over a year). I don't know woe without ygg's/ales. The way woe is now just doesn't seem as much fun without yggs/ales. I know people say the patch will reduce some of this super strong stuff we have in current woe but call me doubtful. Just seems like people will still be one hit killing and the tank/melee classes will get tougher. Squishy classes will have a tougher time surviving. Sura's will gfist less. Am I missing something?

[Mefistofeles]

After trying out the 10 sec cool down on the ales, I vote that a cool down on any hp/sp recovery item is ridiculous.

Maybe somebody can explain to me why this nerf is needed?

I woe with ales/yggs and die a lot. I have a 150 RG and Sura(with above average equips). I can get by without them on my RG and I can see why some people that play RG/RK might not like ales(gives them a advantage). I can also see why some melee classes(GX)hate being outpotted.

What about the squishy classes(genetic,warlock,ranger,etc...)? If you play a class like this, why in the world do you want to take away hp recovery items? Doesn't seem like much fun dying over and over again while you try to outpot/counter a RG/RK/GX with slims.

Sura seems to take the biggest hit. See a lot less Gfist but the class still has cursed circle/gate of hell.

Are people so pissed at gfist that they would hurt their own classes chance at survival to reduce it?

I haven't been on as long as some people(little over a year). I don't know woe without ygg's/ales. The way woe is now just doesn't seem as much fun without yggs/ales. I know people say the patch will reduce some of this super strong stuff we have in current woe but call me doubtful. Just seems like people will still be one hit killing and the tank/melee classes will get tougher. Squishy classes will have a tougher time surviving. Sura's will gfist less. Am I missing something?

the cool down FOR YGG BERRIE AND SEED ITS COMING ALREADY FROM KRO heimdad just wanted to do something else than make the ales account bound. IF YOU GUYS DONT WANT THE COOL DOWN THEN THEY SHOULD BE ACCOUNT BOUND*

DO I NEED TO REPEAT? you guys SUCK! theres a BALANCE coming soon, wich will make you need to spam less ales.............

Edited by Mefistofeles, 09 November 2011 - 05:38 PM.

[DarkDan]

the cool down FOR YGG BERRIE AND SEED ITS COMING ALREADY FROM KRO heimdad just wanted to do something else than make the ales account bound. IF YOU GUYS DONT WANT THE COOL DOWN THEN THEY SHOULD BE ACCOUNT BOUND*

DO I NEED TO REPEAT? you guys SUCK! theres a BALANCE coming soon, wich will make you need to spam less ales.............

I know I suck. Woe is going to be much harder for me lol. Hope I still have fun dying over and over again lol.

[Leiger]

I enjoy watching players that main Sura skwirm and suffer from the recent ale changes
A baby has to eventually be wean from its mothers breast =]

TO ALL YOU SURAS:Knuckle arrow and snap is your friend stfu and quit crying L2 adapt noobs

[Mefistofeles]

I enjoy watching players that main Sura skwirm and suffer from the recent ale changes
A baby has to eventually be wean from its mothers breast =]

TO ALL YOU SURAS:Knuckle arrow and snap is your friend stfu and quit crying L2 adapt noobs

[DarkDan]

I enjoy watching players that main Sura skwirm and suffer from the recent ale changes
A baby has to eventually be wean from its mothers breast =]

TO ALL YOU SURAS:Knuckle arrow and snap is your friend stfu and quit crying L2 adapt noobs

I'll just switch to my 150 RG and maybe i'll look less like a noob.

Edited by DarkDan, 09 November 2011 - 05:46 PM.

[Leiger]

I'll just switch to my 150 RG and maybe i'll look less like a noob.

Amazing.

[Heimdallr]

I'll tell you what my "perfect scenario" is on this regard.

1. Hats have effect stopped, and is tradable, explicitly the description states when the effect will return and for when it will be usable.

As loosely pointed out by others the Pats hat is different from the Dragon hat as the Dragon hat effect was explicitly designated for its time limitations, St Pats hat was not and thus I understand the additional annoyance at it.


2. Green Ales have their weight, and cool down (cool down stays, it isn't optional it is coming in 2-3 weeks regardless with 14.1) they also become full tradable and have their turnin until December after which they are deleted, or rendered much less effective (Korea Rice cake or something)

But this is dependent on how quickly the ales go away, they still need to be shrunk down a lot by mid december.


We aren't making a bad decision, we are making an unpopular but necessary one. As sad and annoying as it is there is no way to make everyone happy with any decision but especially true of situations like this.

[Rukario]

2. Green Ales have their weight, and cool down (cool down stays, it isn't optional it is coming in 2-3 weeks regardless with 14.1) they also become full tradable and have their turnin until December after which they are deleted, or rendered much less effective (Korea Rice cake or something)

But this is dependent on how quickly the ales go away, they still need to be shrunk down a lot by mid December.

I have no objection other than I believe there shouldn't be a cool down, and to combat not having a cool down,
decrease how much they heal so they're spammed in larger quantities. I think that pretty much hits your "They
still need to be shrunk down a lot."

Edited by Rukario, 09 November 2011 - 05:57 PM.

[robrod]

WoE will finally be a challenge, and not just one sura running through and taking out a whole guild.

If that's your point in the Green Ales Cooldown discussion, you know you could just nerf Suras instead of everyone else (including them)?

Change Green Ales back, and make them restore HP only.

Problem solved.

edit: I'm not saying this because I just spent 2b for 15k Green Ales 6000 Seeds. It makes sense.

Edited by robrod, 09 November 2011 - 05:59 PM.

[Leiger]

I'll tell you what my "perfect scenario" is on this regard.

1. Hats have effect stopped, and is tradable, explicitly the description states when the effect will return and for when it will be usable.

As loosely pointed out by others the Pats hat is different from the Dragon hat as the Dragon hat effect was explicitly designated for its time limitations, St Pats hat was not and thus I understand the additional annoyance at it.


2. Green Ales have their weight, and cool down (cool down stays, it isn't optional it is coming in 2-3 weeks regardless with 14.1) they also become full tradable and have their turnin until December after which they are deleted, or rendered much less effective (Korea Rice cake or something)

But this is dependent on how quickly the ales go away, they still need to be shrunk down a lot by mid december.


We aren't making a bad decision, we are making an unpopular but necessary one. As sad and annoying as it is there is no way to make everyone happy with any decision but especially true of situations like this.

YEs HEIM I Love you awsome! Destroy the ales!! murder for his glory and might
:insane cackle: o.o

[Mefistofeles]

If that's your point in the Green Ales Cooldown discussion, you know you could just nerf Suras instead of everyone else (including them)?

Change Green Ales back, and make them restore HP only.

Problem solved.

i though that too! disabling the sp healing BUT I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE THE COOLDOWN XD ITS JUST AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rukario]

i though that too! disabling the sp healing BUT I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE THE COOLDOWN XD ITS JUST AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As I ponder over the thought of "Why have I read this same exact post 15 times before this? ... from the same person?"

Edited by Rukario, 09 November 2011 - 06:03 PM.

[Mefistofeles]

As I ponder over the thought of "Why have I read this same exact post 15 times before this? ... from the same person?"

you will keep looking more of me until you fall in love

[epikhigh]

you take advice from like people who's mentally retarded heim... sorry not to be mean... because you obviously don't listen to key players or old players that came back and you nerf this ale bullcrap and ask for feedbacks,don't listen to it,then go with people who just support gravity by blowing up their PAYCHECKS correct me if I'm wrong? this is getting extremely retarded... why u making new threads everytime and poll if you're not gonna do it? Obviously the most stupid reason to nerf ale "BOTS" wow really cool like bots were never around before, only people that gonna blow paychecks will continue to play and support this crap enough said, I hope you just listen to one of the "old/key players" like incendio/andini/lambor/myzery (they all have a good point) One day instead of listening to non sense people.

[lrresponsible]

2. Green Ales have their weight, and cool down (cool down stays, it isn't optional it is coming in 2-3 weeks regardless with 14.1) they also become full tradable and have their turnin until December after which they are deleted, or rendered much less effective (Korea Rice cake or something)

Thank you for your clarification. Since there is no chance of the cooldown going away, I guess there really isn't any point in me giving feedback on this thread.

[NoxiousOrchid]

2. Green Ales have their weight, and cool down (cool down stays, it isn't optional it is coming in 2-3 weeks regardless with 14.1) they also become full tradable and have their turnin until December after which they are deleted, or rendered much less effective (Korea Rice cake or something)

Would you consider lowering the cool down? 10 seconds seems kind of long for what you are getting, and I don't even like Green Ales to begin with. I think around half of that is more appropriate, same goes for ygg berries and seeds.

[JIGSAW]

We have paid millions/billions zeny for green ales. If we've known this would be happened in any chances. Who's gonna buy them at that time?

It is not fair.

Better just gain weight till 25 and tradeable, vendible. Be able to put in Cart. It should be working as ygg seeds. But do something on St. Patrick hat. Like make it acct bonded. Or make the dropping rate lower.

Otherwise, everything is messed up, 120%.