210 replies to this topic

[Rewth]

It seems from what i have been reading that wanderer is like the ONLY player that is defending renewal. I am wondering how much testing you have done in the new test server Wanderer. (not trying to be an ass i am honestly trying to see how much of it you have tried out because i really REALLY want to hope that it's not as bad as everyone says)

The biggest issue for me is the drop based off level. If they fix that i can deal with just about anything else. It make no sense NONE to me that a higher lvl char should get less drops from low level monsters. Why?!! what's the logic?? if anything they should get better drops (seeing as they get no xp) I would be happy with that (no xp but you get like 200% drop after a point).

That has always been the choice in RO (do you wana make money or get levels?) lol

[Shinobi]

The people testing renewal are not bashing it. They are stating the bugs that are in the testing version of it. It is probably the best thing to happen to RO since it opened, yet it has alot of things it needs to work out. That is why it is being tested. Don't misinterpret someone finding things wrong with it to mean they hate it. Alot of it will be fixed.

The drop rate has been brought up alot. A poll shows it to be very unpopular, but I have also seen Heim defending it. So who knows which way that will go.

[Akihiro]

I think the exp rate needs to be looked at as well, because honestly renewal is pretty perfect with 2x or so rates.

[Whacko]

I wanted to see what it was like before bashing it, and after testing it I can say for certain I don't like it at all.

Without some kind of localization like jRO has done, renewal is a complete deal breaker for me.

[Ruina]

It seems from what i have been reading that wanderer is like the ONLY player that is defending renewal. I am wondering how much testing you have done in the new test server Wanderer. (not trying to be an ass i am honestly trying to see how much of it you have tried out because i really REALLY want to hope that it's not as bad as everyone says)

I'm actually enjoying renewal and feel pretty optimistic about it, so that makes two players? I wouldn't say renewal is perfect as it is right now, but that's the whole point of this testing week(s). While I've made a few characters with NPC'ed levels to test out 3rd class job change quests, I also have a separate character which I'm dedicating to just leveling traditionally (or as close to it as possible). She's only leveled off of killing monsters and taking Eden Group missions and so far, I found the exp to be very reasonable (the quests give a nice chunk of exp in some of the later missions too). She made it to base level 82 this way in less than a week; I think that's pretty good for leveling traditionally. So if it means anything to you, I can tell you from actually testing it out that renewal, at least up to that point, is not bad at all.

I don't know about trans and 3rd class exp rate though, and I have no intention of leveling traditionally to 99 twice, so this may have to wait until renewal hits the mains and more people play through those levels themselves. I would imagine that changing things would still be possible even after renewal officially opens to everyone; if the exp in those high levels (or anything else) is just too unbearable and unreasonable, I'm sure it'll never be too late to discuss it and get things customized then. I honestly don't think the exp rate as a whole needs to be adjusted, as it works out fine for the non-trans low/mid levels. If there's an issue with the exp rate for trans and 3rd classes, I'd suggest tweaking things for just those classes instead of the exp rate itself (if that's possible at all, I know nothing about programming).

As for what I think about drops:

See, my problem with the drop penalty is the disconnect between drops and exp. The best level for experience is 10 levels below the monster, but you're penalized for drops at this point. That strikes me as being a problem.

Agree with this. ^

[Pepperoncini]

It looks like leveling as trans is only slightly slower than leveling as normal. At least just judging by the EXP charts. So if you can level that far, that fast, and without having tons of people doing it beside you showing you the "best" way to do everything, then I'm not worried at all. I'm also really excited about renewal, and I will gladly take some of the obvious negative changes for the large amount of fixes and new content.

[ZeroTigress]

Seeing all these changes to leveling and drop mechanics, I can't help but wonder why Gravity Co. simply didn't just rebuild RO from the ground up and call it the Reborn Project instead. Seriously, the way RO is now with Renewal simply doesn't work with the drop penalty and the crafting system is just worthless. Since they don't even have the original development team that worked on RO, why not just rebuild the game so that they can actually make changes rather than slap on bandages after bandages on a broken foundation?

[Beyond]

My feelings towards iRenewal are generally positive minus the drop rates. I don't dislike the new system, it brings us something new. Sure it's similar to other MMO's and it does draw away from Ragnarok's original uniqueness but that doesn't work. Look at the population's of Ymir and Valk(not counting bots), they are horrid. Sometimes I wondered how iGravity even kept us running for so long. If they did more advertising I'm sure it'd help but Advertise vs. Income is always an issue. But then I see a commercial for some little MMO like <insert children's MMO here> and think? That game is on TV getting air time but iRO isn't?


My only real issue with iRenewal have always been with Gatling Gunslingers. It isn't hard to see that I love the class, that's why I was the first Gunslinger on Loki and always been my main WoE character and I love just randomly going out and Criting Goats/AK's/MvP's to death for fun. kRO ignored them to death, gave us 4 gatling guns and that was it and called it done. When they went into kRenewal to this day have ignored Gatling Fever's bug of only giving extremely low ASPD in exchange for -50% Flee/Movement Speed and +120 ATK. When we got YGG server first class I made was a Gunslinger, grabbed a rifle and went to 55 so I could check with a Drifter, and of course I found the bug in place. Reported it in hopes of it getting fixed though I highly doubt it. I can't even test out how much AGI I would even need to get 190 ASPD due to the fact that they can't give me with the Trade Limitations a Hermode Cap. I'm sure eventually kRO will fix the bug when they work on the Advance Gunslinger but that won't be till what? End of this year if we are lucky? And even then I'd have to wait 1+ years after that to even see it on iRO? I don't like the fact that Renewal kills my favorite class and am forced to leave him to collect dust while I wait for something better.

Edited by Beyond, 15 September 2010 - 11:33 PM.

[Hrishi]

Renewal seems to be nice. Only gripe I have really is class balance. Some classes are way too overpowered and some are really weak.

[danferdud]

Renewal moves RO squarely into the standard MMORPG territory. I guess this is to combat our dwindling player numbers. But you think moving an old but unique game into the realm of mega graphics, massive development budget and already huge player base games (WoW etc), while nerfing its unique features is going to HELP?? Try advertising; we have a really unique game pre-renewal. Adding new low level content and advertising would get things ticking over nicely (imo).

I know there are still a lot of unique features post renewal but their effect is totally diminished by mechanics changes so, when all is said and done, this feels like WoW.

My main on Ymir is SinX. I have a huge array of highly specialized weapons collected and made over many years. Why? Because the whole point of RO is specialization. We have the complex elemental system, the def/mdef, atk/matk, the compex multiplier-based mechanics, the vast array of unique skills precisely so that if you want to kill X monster, or X class in PvP, you better start thinking, calculating, designing and building new weaps and armours, trying out new skill combinations, gathering the right pty with the right combination of classes etc. etc. Am I alone in saying that this is why I play RO?

It seems to me that this kind of specialization gets totally squashed with renewal. As others have said, you really can (I did with Henry's help) get to 99 on any monster in your range with 2 or 3 diligent weapons and generic armour and every monster feels exactly the same. We don't even have WoW's solution to this boring situation which is to have a vast array of equips you need to keep replacing as your lvl increases. I now have 150/50 GX. I took him out to test new dmg mechanics, built a huge array of weapons, swords, daggers, carded, non carded, element, race, picks, left hand modifiers... you get the picture. Basically, finding the best weapon after all this testing improves dmg on plain old upgraded diligent scalpel by maybe 20-30%. When you only kill a particular monster for a few lvls anyway who in their right mind is going to use anything other than generic diligent weaps? My reason to play is just gone. Melee players will all use the same equips and their stats won't really make them unique any more either. This is a sad loss of individuality.

I haven't fully tested RO's end games yet (PvP, MvP, WoE) so can't comment on these. They may be improved, but, even if they are, players will have to be 150/50 before they can enjoy PvP or WoE properly anyway which means grinding through the now boring lvling process.

I agree with the general disapproval of the drops nerf - just doesn't work for RO.

OK, rant over. Here's a suggestion to improve low lvl play which builds on what others have said here and fills the gap between the now great training grounds and Eden. Why not have a "personal" class specific trainer when you job change? They set you challenges and reward you with Exp/equips. They could also begin the process of actually teaching ppl to play their class. How useful would it be if your personal mage training NPC told you about verting FW, for example? The NPCs could be located in the town where you job change (pront would be more useful but it's beneficial to spread ppl out and show off other towns); the challenges would be on local monsters/other local NPCs; the advice would be genuinely useful and get new players to engage with their class and understand how it differs from other classes. With this training completed, your personal trainer sends you off to try your newly acquired knowledge and skills with the Eden group. You could even return to them at higher lvls for more advanced quests/class training.

Edited by danferdud, 16 September 2010 - 01:48 AM.

[LethalJokeChar]

This was in response to Beyond:

You shouldn't be blaming how RO was/is for the low player populations, as if somehow radically changing them was going to make a difference. You want to know where all the players are? Most likely driven away by bots and cheaters, and if they aren't playing some other MMO, they probably reside on one of the some odd thousand RO private servers.

Yes, that's right. Private servers. But for the most part, it seems the main difference between iRO's official server and the privates is that the official has lowest rates, milder gains for pouring in money, bad enforcement of rules, and doesn't listen to its player base.

If you could gather all the players residing on these private servers back into iRO... yes, players willing to if suddenly there was zero lag and administrators decided to turn over a new leaf... the population would probably improve 100 fold. At least.


Anyway, I just thought of something... based on what I just said.

What if, instead of trying to compete with every other big MMO that would crush renewal in every department, except possibly skill trees, why wasn't this "renewal" designed to compete with the other private servers and win their players back?

Edited by LethalJokeChar, 16 September 2010 - 01:17 AM.

[Hitotsu]

"every other MMO would crush renewal" because people are stupid, and love the shiney stuff.

WOW,AION,FF11,Guild wars... whatever. I've never ACTUALLY played any of these, I admit, but watching other people play these games, and seeing videos of these games.

They have graphics over RO's oldschool 2d (though I love RO's look, I hate the ugly charaters of the other games, but I cant speak for everyone on that) But thats-_- it. Watching the videos and other people play, its like Playing a game visually modeled after a zelda game, (with ugly characters... mainly male anyway) with game mechanics akin to a Knight with no skills and about 165 aspd.


I never see ANY game with the kind of skill casting system (where else can you tell a pro wizard from a moron? Pro wizard can level a lvl 70 naked non trans wizard Just using his VFW skill alone, a stupid wizard only wins because he has GTB insta cast and enough gear that he just needs to press 2 buttons, white pot and SG, and he does his job) that RO has, its just....attack......attack........attack attack........attack......attack........ yay, I'm a high enough level, I killed monster, now wheres another?

thats all those other games seem to be, at least from what I've seen wheres the skill?

I play RO because you can do stuff that requires skill and strategy. Because level and gear isnt ALWAYS everything. Smart players can make up (to a degree) for not being rich of max level.


and renewal is trying to help with that degree, so those players that are max level, rich and complete with end game gear dont always dominate everything and are untouchable, least I think so

[danferdud]

I play RO because you can do stuff that requires skill and strategy. Because level and gear isnt ALWAYS everything. Smart players can make up (to a degree) for not being rich of max level.


and renewal is trying to help with that degree, so those players that are max level, rich and complete with end game gear dont always dominate everything and are untouchable, least I think so

I agree that RO is great for being highly dependent on real-world skill - hence my suggestion of NPCs to help new players start to actually learn to play their class. I know I know, "SinX is click and kill" - but even with SinX, there's a huge difference between good and bad players. You can't just dismiss gears though. Yes - people with GTB and Megs etc don't really need that much skill but I'm not talking about that. Working out builds and building perfect (non MvP/God item) equips is important too.

But the importance of player level on renewal totally negates the advantage of being skilful unless you're of similar lvl to your opponents. Someone already said it in this thread; no matter how good you are at playing your class, no matter how well you've worked out your gears/gear switching/skill use etc, if you're 10 lvls below your opponent you just CANNOT kill them. So, I don't think renewal does help with the skill to uber-richness balance; I think it makes it worse. You will need TONS of Z to buy your generic gears (since demand will be enormous) and even when you get them, you'll only be able to fight players/monsters within your range - regardless of your ability to play your class.

[Hitotsu]

right the whole level thing. yeah that definately needs some thought, or it'll be a huge problem

[Viri]

About the level difference thing. I made a 99 killing stroke ninja and was 1 shotting a fair number of 3rd classers, shuras and warlocks and stuff fine. Dunno what you're smoking. Thats without even having access to the double damage bg weapon for killing stroke and stuff. And only having 10k hp lol.

[Kadelia]

hi Steve!! :3

[Sera]

About the level difference thing. I made a 99 killing stroke ninja and was 1 shotting a fair number of 3rd classers, shuras and warlocks and stuff fine. Dunno what you're smoking. Thats without even having access to the double damage bg weapon for killing stroke and stuff. And only having 10k hp lol.

That's because there's no good way to reduce damage in renewal. At least not compared to pre-renewal.

Edited by Sera, 16 September 2010 - 07:53 AM.

[Viri]

Hi kaddy :3

It seems like we're missing all the updates that kRO did for rebalancing already. Making us do it AGAIN seems rather stupid. Is demi human reduction "working as intended" even?

Edited by Viri, 16 September 2010 - 08:22 AM.

[Kadelia]

lolol @ working as intended.

Edited by Jaye, 16 September 2010 - 09:42 AM.

[LethalJokeChar]

"every other MMO would crush renewal" because people are stupid, and love the shiney stuff.

WOW,AION,FF11,Guild wars... whatever. I've never ACTUALLY played any of these, I admit, but watching other people play these games, and seeing videos of these games.

They have graphics over RO's oldschool 2d (though I love RO's look, I hate the ugly charaters of the other games, but I cant speak for everyone on that) But thats-_- it. Watching the videos and other people play, its like Playing a game visually modeled after a zelda game, (with ugly characters... mainly male anyway) with game mechanics akin to a Knight with no skills and about 165 aspd.


I never see ANY game with the kind of skill casting system (where else can you tell a pro wizard from a moron? Pro wizard can level a lvl 70 naked non trans wizard Just using his VFW skill alone, a stupid wizard only wins because he has GTB insta cast and enough gear that he just needs to press 2 buttons, white pot and SG, and he does his job) that RO has, its just....attack......attack........attack attack........attack......attack........ yay, I'm a high enough level, I killed monster, now wheres another?

thats all those other games seem to be, at least from what I've seen wheres the skill?

I play RO because you can do stuff that requires skill and strategy. Because level and gear isnt ALWAYS everything. Smart players can make up (to a degree) for not being rich of max level.


and renewal is trying to help with that degree, so those players that are max level, rich and complete with end game gear dont always dominate everything and are untouchable, least I think so

You are entirely missing the point. The fact is. Yes, every other MMO WOULD crush renewal. I am talking about RO renewal, the new series of changes and revamps about to befall RO and its player bases that will completely change everything. Maybe you've heard of it?

I have played WoW. Meh, I didn't like it. I mainly liked doing quests and stuff but still got bored easily. It wasn't like it was just "attack attack attack" ... classes had skills they'd have to strategically use to become most effective. And while I still didn't like it, I'll also say it's not nearly as bad as you make it out to be.

I've also played Dungeons and Dragons Online. Now that game was also "shiney" in the 3d aspect, and also had quite a good bit of character customization to boot. My only real issue with that game is that it DOES seem a lot like the "attack attack attack" for most melee classes ... and NPC mobs got unfair advantages... and it was nearly always frustrating partying with other people, yet it becomes practically a necessity later on.

And again, you could have the "smart" and "stupid" players in any of these games. The point is, the RO you know and love that you are defending is so much better than these MMOs is not the same as renewal. Renewal is a sad attempt at trying to be like these other MMOs, but even if it still looks like RO and feels slightly like it until you've been playing a while... like others have said, it plays like a cheap version of WoW.

[ensignfluke]

Renewal doesn't seem to fix the social ineptitude of the players. Will this be fixed before it is implemented on the other servers?

[Tirasu]

Theres alot of things I like, and a lot of things I don't. I'm glad the leveling curve lessened a bit, but when I could very easily tank level 140~150 monsters at level 145 (bradium golems, centipedes etc in new world) and get 0.1% after 3~4 kills I feel a little disappointed.
Thats about the same % EXP on iRO right now for me and I get one shot left and right on that map doing it.

Simply put, the game got too easy with renewal, Lowering the EXP curve to level faster at 90~99 was a GREAT change, making it so you can get the exp without even trying? Terrible.

I shudder to think how easy NI might be right now, I know thors can be still pretty mean, but even then there damage is still slightly lower than it is now, and you'll be able to dish out way more in return on there now-lower HP and such.

RO has always been on thing; Incredibly challange ontop of an incredible grind. Even biolabs took hours to level in and was very difficult unless you did it one or two ways and knew what you was doing. My only hope is that those high level dungeons (Biolabs, Thors, Nameless island, even Thanatos tower) still hold SOME challange even for those at the same level as the mobs.

I don't see the point of putting Theifbugs in the training grounds to 1-shot new characters then when you get to 140 3rd class It's a bigger challange to die 80% of the time outside MvPs

I think outside the challange, the drop penalty, and completely removing stat bonuses (even though they pretty much broke the game) are a shame. With specialized weapons VS diligent-filled weapons becomes so stupidly small a difference it's not even funny.

I dont' mind level 4 weapons doing way more than level 1, I do mind a Level 3 double diligent doing basicly the same damage as the same Level 3 with bloody boned against on medium Demihuman. One change to this without having the effect of turning weapons back to there old useful-ness (aka anything that wasn't at least 3 slotted was junk 90% of the time) could be a straight nerf on attack cards. Such as Zipper bear having the same -1 sp an attack penality while only giving +15 atk, andre only giving +10, Wolf giving +5 and crit. All the status and +5 atk etc giving the status and +2 atk. Something like that would "boost" properly carded weapons over just throwing zipper bears in everything, yet won't be too hardcore of a change.

I personally think they had the right idea with changes, but went overboard with how much.

It's not hard to judge the goal there trying to achieve, but in reality there is difference with the attitude of eastern and western gamers and thus the target audience, so what might work for kRO and jRO won't always work for us
Basicly I think most eastern players are focused more on the RP part of RPG and focus on PvM which isn't a bad thing, while most westerners couldn't even give a damn about characters as long as there "useful" to them in PvP/GvG.

Edited by Tirasu, 16 September 2010 - 03:48 PM.

[kontona]

ok, so.. my feelings about renewal!~
as previous post said, "theres alot of things i like and a lot of things i dont".

I love how leveling now is stretched around the world of ro~ and how most monsters now can be leveled upon at different levels~
I also love the increased spawn rates in most maps!~
I like the new stat system too~
and how now you can actually get exp from porings XD Ymir right now, a novice on 1/1 wont level at all from 1 poring. it gives 22.2% why yes it does! and then there was that dreaded job 10 that you needed tank to complete unless you had awesome gears and stats xD

[Seraphiel]

All in all, Renewal is a step ahead, and I like the game much better now than pre-renewal. It certainly has its flaws but they can be fixed and tweaked. Things that need to be revised are:

* Job balance - Many Jobs are overpowered e.g Suras, and many are underpowered e.g Rangers & Mechanic
* Drop penalty - Should apply only for monsters that are above your level.
* Experience chart/EXP rates - Leveling would be perfect with 2x-3x rates during early~mid levels; however, it is still harsh for the higher levels, especially that monsters of lvl 115+ have much more HP and atk. 0,02% per monster is not really a way to go.
* Party-Share system - Needs serious overhaul. Bonus for each member of the party should be much higher or soloing will be much more efficient.
* MATK formula - MAtk dependent jobs have lower damage output because of the current formula. Int should influence MAtk more than it is now.
* Status Effect resistance - It should be changed because it is stupidly easy to gain resistance against most of them
* Drop rate - I always felt that drop rate in RO is dramatically low. For F2P servers full of bots it's not a problem; however, for premium ones it is. In my opinion most items should have drop rate increased by 10 times. Cards and most rare equipment pieces would have drop rate of 0,1%. Other items should be tweaked manually so they do not have drop rate which is too high.
* Refine Rate - Equipment in Renewal can be upgraded up to +20. Getting +15 is nearly impossible with current rates. I believe that upgrading to +10 should be much easier, and past +10 should not destroy your item but decrease the refine rate by 1 - I think that it is this way on kRO servers. Introducing new cash ore is also a good idea, the one that decreases refine rate by one if upgrading from +7 to +10 fails.
* PK System - RO is missing a lot in this department. Western players are mainly focused on PvP; however, PvP arenas, BGs and WoE are not exactly friendly for everyone. There should be maps with PK mode enabled e.g maps with MvPs.

iRO should be more advertised. I do not mean TV ads, but some internet ads. Ro could be advertised on sites like Megaupload, MMORPG.com, MMOSite.com, etc. I am sure that it would lure new players to the game. Last but not least, I was hoping that RO will get a new fresh look with introduction of renewal, I am glad that we got upgraded interface and booking system, but the thing that I was waiting for was DX9 support since RO uses only DX7 files - Flame me if I am wrong. Having a Day/Night system, changing weather and some fancy lighting in the game would make RO's graphic richer and even more unique. I hope that this day will come sometime in the future.

Edited by Seraphiel, 17 September 2010 - 02:57 AM.

[joanne]

I think ive posted before bout what i thought but i wanna add didnt at one time we have the same type of discussions on OP classes when ro first got advanced classes or is it just me noticing this >___<