348 replies to this topic

[DamiaN468]

I have to agree with Jaye. Reducing GFist overall damage could be enough reason to remove cooldown. It could still be equal or better than AB. However if that means GFist is reduced to make 50k per cast then scratch it.

 

Given the following GFist facts:

Pros:

1. It's a normal 2nd Job skill.
2. No catalysts needed.
3. Second lowest cost per cast skill.
4. Uber high one hit damage.
5. Easy to increase damage.
6. Negates DEF + Flee.
7. Cursed Circle!
8. Second highest DPS skill.
9. Point & Click & Rinse & Repeat.

Cons:

1. Forced neutral element.
2. Melee range.
3. Available SP amount dependant.
4. Needs specific build for maximum damage which hinders other skills.
5. Has limited damage if it's used with a hybrid build.
6. Damage is influenced by Base Level (in terms of Max SP).
7. For ultimate damage, high cost equipment is required (godlikes & MvP carded gears).
8. For 10 seconds no SP recovery.

Then Guillotine Fist is (now) as balanced as hell.

[thatfool]

i dont mind the damage being reduced, but the current "fix" is just ridiculous

[strafe247]

Gfist should not negate def and FLEE (of all things). Make it miss! More love for Thief classes! 

[Trixdee]

yea gloom HF lex and you can hit 1m with a Gene. 

 

Sura with double meg, gloom, tanee, striking, GK and convert with lex = 3.3m? Doesn't really matter though, even if you're comped by a Gene that g-fist will win you the fight

 

1 second valk

 

God items and MVP cards are not equalizers. They're elite items meant to overpower very elite people. Stop talking about them like they're great equalizers everyone has access to or can buy.

[thatfool]

welp... if u dont have god items + multi-billion worth of equips, u also cant do those mils of gfist

 

on the other hand, u can do some serious damage with just 2-3bil worth of equips on a gene

Edited by thatfool, 04 March 2014 - 02:06 PM.

[Memoir]

Omg another thread like this. I don't play classic but it makes me wonder if you can fist+berry in there just like how it was before. If so, go play classic. If not then im sorry. I just really don't see anyway that you could still call it balance if you remove either gfist cooldown or sp cooldown.

For people that complain about gene, you should play gene then compare it to gfist.

[thatfool]

well i do mvp with gene nowadays, but i still want them to reduce the penalty

[Memoir]

In other note:to those people that want this change so much. why don't we just play private server to make things like this possible?

[thatfool]

im speechless

 

 

i guess online games dont need any sort of rebalance patch

[Memoir]

I just think its balance the way it is now imo. When newer gears come out(what if those could make gfist one shot pretty much every MVP except ghost?), then I think cooldown won't matter at all.

Edited by Memoir, 04 March 2014 - 02:33 PM.

[Kadelia]

lets not forget fcp is a life saver support skill too, and thats only one of the many awesome skills genes have

Last I played, which was about a year ago (I haven't seen any balance patches or new woe gear since) genes were useful in woe but sura significantly more so due to cursed circle. Since howling got nerfed by the ease at which it was cured.

Basically the idea is that if a class is ideal at one thing it usually isn't ideal at another. If someone asks why chaser or wanderer aren't top tier mvpers, someone will jump out and say they are woe support characters foremost. The same can be said of sura. More useful in woe and pvp/kvm, less useful in pvm/mvp, though still quite good there.

Edited by Jaye, 04 March 2014 - 02:33 PM.

[thatfool]

maybe it is consider how useless many other classes are in mvp scenarios. so perhaps its gene that needs a nerf 

[Kadelia]

buff wanderer

[D111]

I just think its balance the way it is now imo. When newer gears come out(what if those could make gfist one shot pretty much every MVP except ghost?), then I think cooldown won't matter at all.

 

You don't understand the balance then.

 

There was a quest that was left in too long and allowed people to stock up On Ales 30k per multiple storage.

 

The game was never meant to have unlimited access to sp items,

 

So in a knee jerk reaction to fix the problem they implemented the Cooldown.

 

That issue has since been resolved,

 

Tthey implemented an expiration date on the ales effectiveness and thus eliminated the mass storage of sp items.

 

Now they need to unerf the Sura.

 

Also around that time people were still leveling and trying to WOE at the same time.

 

So you had a bunch of non-150's running around in woe.

 

This made it easy for a g-fist to one shot people.

 

Now most everyone that is in WOE is 150, and with reductions Not everyone dies to a oneshot g-fist.

 

The nerf is no longer needed as it was when implemented.

[D111]

buff wanderer

 

I agree but that is for a different thread, feel free to make that thread and I will support you.

[thatfool]

so i did remember it correctly! the nerf was a knee jerk reaction to green ales !

[Kadelia]

You don't understand the balance then.

There was a quest that was left in too long and allowed people to stock up On Ales 30k per multiple storage.

The game was never meant to have unlimited access to sp items,

So in a knee jerk reaction to fix the problem they implemented the Cooldown.

That issue has since been resolved,

Tthey implemented an expiration date on the ales effectiveness and thus eliminated the mass storage of sp items.

Now they need to unerf the Sura.

Also around that time people were still leveling and trying to WOE at the same time.

So you had a bunch of non-150's running around in woe.

This made it easy for a g-fist to one shot people.

Now most everyone that is in WOE is 150, and with reductions Not everyone dies to a oneshot g-fist.

The nerf is no longer needed as it was when implemented.

That is not correct. The ale problem is iRO specific but the gfist change was part of the kRO rebalancing season. We knew about kRo having 10 seconds of no SP long before we got it here. They are not related.

Edited by Jaye, 04 March 2014 - 03:25 PM.

[Memoir]

I thought you wanted it to be removed in pvm and not woe?

That aside... The ales are still around during st. Patricks day I believe. If they do that, then wouldn't it just go back to how it was?

[D111]

so i did remember it correctly! the nerf was a knee jerk reaction to green ales !

 

Yea,

 

People were raging because Suras had unlimited Sp recovery like never before and were able to spam G-Fist.

 

The GMs did a quick fix by making the cooldown.

 

Then about 3 months later implemented the berry/seed/ales cooldown.

 

As well as the ales expiration.

 

Then they added the cooldown icon for the G-Fist sp recovery.

[D111]

I thought you wanted it to be removed in pvm and not woe?

That aside... The ales are still around during st. Patricks day I believe. If they do that, then wouldn't it just go back to how it was?

 

Yes I am advocating for PVM purpose.

 

WoE would be awesome, but I can understand people not wanting that, and I am ok with that.

 

I would just like to be able to MVP with my sura again.

[Memoir]

That is not correct. The ale problem is iRO specific but the gfist change was part of the kRO rebalancing season. We knew about kRo having 10 seconds of no SP long before we got it here. They are not related.

^this.

I'm quite curious. How much is the most damage a gfist can do if you have everything you will need?

Edited by Memoir, 04 March 2014 - 03:31 PM.

[D111]

kRO

 

came out with that Balance after all the QQing people did about Suras.

 

The Ales made that QQing Happen.

[Kadelia]

kRO

came out with that Balance after all the QQing people did about Suras.

The Ales made that QQing Happen.

This is a baseless assumption.

[thatfool]

so.... does kro have cd for gfist??

[D111]

This is a baseless assumption.

 

What ever hater.