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WoE Rebalance and Event WoEs


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#276 Heart

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 12:17 AM

I don't think KVM is really gonna help much, unless you see it as a platform for PVP. Thats about it.

The equipments are gonna make the current equipments(most of them are from pvm) less appealing( I mean they will still be better) 

but KVM is kinda...free, it will make farming these pvm equipments less worth it.

 

It will boost the population, fix all the item imbalances, provide more PvM content, deter cheating and abusive behaviour, and revitalise the economy.

 

Nothing KvM can't do.

 

I lol'd , guess KVM is the update we deserve, but not one that we need right now.


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#277 Xellie

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 12:22 AM

I didn't even think about the damage to pvm from gear changes..............


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#278 Rate

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 12:38 AM

you can get fire/water immunity with kvm rings

 

and kvm is fun..


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#279 Xellie

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 12:51 AM

unless we get the old style asprika that worked with magic (lulz) it'll just shift the issue imo


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#280 Heart

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 01:28 AM

Current scenario with KVM :-

 

>Community : Give us KVM, we need it.

> GMs : OKAY.

 

few months later

 

> GMs : Testing KVM on test server.

> Community : KVM GEARS TOO OP PLEASE NO KVM.

> GMs : (╯°□°)╯


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#281 Rayea

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 02:59 AM

I like this idea (all the way back on page 1).

 

Being forced to find new ways to kill/disable people (or even ignoring them altogether if they become too hard to kill relative to more dangerous people) is a more rewarding experience than trying to figure out ways to not get oneshotted (usually futilely).

 

This.

 

I also liked the "Global reduction of all damages" Idea someone mentioned. 


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#282 rojoky113

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 07:00 AM

Idk, I think getting one-shotted by single target killing classes might be sort of necessary in a way, I rarely find myself dropping to anything outside of SB or fist unless I am being focused by a pretty large number of people and my woe character is decidedly mediocre in terms of survivability. Yeah hibram precast plus multiple champs/sinx is pretty rough to get through but on the other side of the coin there are people playing high vit classes like LKs and sinx who pot well that can walk through entire other guilds to break their emp and live through a metric crapton of focused fire. Making them even harder to kill is going to be rough on starting players too.

GR, DR, asprika, tau and GTB already exist as defensive high tier items and all of them have strengths but also weaknesses to exploit. GR/DR are minis even, they aren't as super rare and they offer a needed counterbalance to fist and bomb (which is why I think TE definitely needs them). You can't just default this stuff though because there are always weaknesses. If you have a problem with DR/GR/GTB characters walking through you, get two people to run frost joke. Fiber and use freeze weapons, or use endow and sonic blow. I don't want to see the entire game changed to be dumbed down because some guilds don't want to have to try or adapt, ever work on their character or gear, or feel like they should be able to roll whatever class composition they want with 9 people and still be competitive.

New players do need to be thrown a bone with helping them jump into woe and feel like they can make a difference because it really is night and day when you cross that threshold from not being 99 and geared to hitting max level and getting yourself outfitted decently, but I don't think the answer is to put kiddie bumpers on the whole woe meta.

New players also need expanded pvm content and ways to get them learning the game, in not just woe but pvm/mvp aspects as well. Nothing teaches them other than experienced players. I played pre-renewal RO four different times, from pre-trans to right before renewal, and this is the only time I have stuck with it and it is 100% because of joining a guild that gave me great friends to socialize with, that cared enough to teach me and help me learn and establish myself, and gave me somewhere to belong in game where I found active people to play with. Whereas before I quit to the grind and loneliness. Goats was also huge because not only did it put leveling at a pace that wasn't brainmelting but selling horns gave me my financial start. We need to expand on these turn in ideas because they do make a huge difference to new players. And we need to get older players partying with new people and active playing the game with them, and properly incentivize them to do so. Can't say enough how important that is.

Edited by rojoky113, 04 December 2015 - 07:40 AM.

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#283 rojoky113

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 04:47 PM

P.s. actually going through, finding and deleting the duped/genned/rmted mvp cards would probably help with their overabundance.

As in don't let that be forgotten about Oda, it needs to happen.

Edited by rojoky113, 05 December 2015 - 04:47 PM.

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#284 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 05:39 PM

You should be speaking to Camp about that Alex. Oda's just the middleman.
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#285 rojoky113

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 07:56 PM

Camp can read it just as well as oda can and if he doesn't oda can middle man it to him, don't think it matters either way or which name is dropped in the post.
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#286 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 08:31 PM

I meant PM it. Camp isn't on the forums as much anymore due to his responsiblities shifting (but he still responds to messages; he just can't browse), as he stated earlier this week, and Oda rarely passes these things on or looks into them with any great detail, also by his own admission.

Actually if you want to get anything done I suggest you not post here at all. Just correspond directly with the production team. It might seem unfair but its really the only way to get your opinion across without it being minimised or framed negatively / out of context with your intention.

Since everyone has the ability to do this and Camp still weighs everyone's opinions equally on his end, as he receives them without bias or attacks from the "opposition" in tow, its actually the fairer option.

Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 05 December 2015 - 08:32 PM.

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#287 Xellie

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 12:59 AM

until someone bull-_- to campitor that with a +9 loki nail GT can do 32,000 damage legitly and that gets GT nerfed and nobody knew to tell him otherwise

 

 

 

........ but the community bring that upon themselves.


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#288 rojoky113

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 07:49 AM

Yeah I mean why make a thread and have a discussion if they aren't gonna read it.

Unbelieveable there is even a chance they would let something like that slide, mvp cards are the gamechanging pinnacle of gear that classic already has issues with the abundance of and there are not insignificant numbers of illegit ones running around. Stuff like that is cancer to a game, especially a competitive one.
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#289 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 01:14 PM

Yeah I mean why make a thread and have a discussion if they aren't gonna read it.


You must be new here.
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#290 leguho

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 10:03 PM

Keep GTB as-is because the negative effects are pretty overwhelming when you compare them to the positives. No friendly buffs double SP cost status vulnerability no redux et cetera. It has far more usefulness in PvM than GvG @_@

 

I like the idea for Hibram.

 

Nerf Little Feather Hat so that the base CRIT boost is 5%, and remove the additional Sharp Arrow bonus. Atm CRIT build SinX can put out atrociously high damage under WoE redux - with DPS akin to a bomber, at 12-15k a hit after GR + Asprika, and capable of pushing over anyone without a blazing fast pot macro and some squishies with just a touch - almost solely due to the CRIT stacking of this hat.

 

Also for the sake of actually having decent fights where an entire guild doesn't pop as soon as ME goes down, nerf Skull Cap so that the staff refine doesn't contribute to MATK stacking. It was very silly porting it over with Renewal-esque effects like that.

 

Random non-item things that probably can't be done because iRO doesn't have source access, but I think would actually improve WoE somewhat

Spoiler

+7LFH is not OP

+7 little feather hat +sharp arrow wont bring your damage to 12-15k even if you got 99str+EDP.  Maybe against monsters w/ lvl4 element but not against someone who wears asprika/cranial in PVP/WOE.

 A 110STR sinx can do 7k+ crit on someone with no redux equips on a pvp map. Put in cranial/asprika + WOE dmg reduction that would be around 3k+.  But for meg users, that would be 11k per hit(no reduction gears) and 6.5k(WOE redux + cranial/asprika) but at a very low crit rate(30%) or low aspd.

 But still what your claiming at 12-15k per hit on asprika users is very far from reality.

 

Just consider it as an additional paper card/racial card.


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#291 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 10:05 PM

My numbers factored in belts, but the fact that people are able to deal stronger crits than SBs even without those luxury items still requires addressing.

 

And even if you plug it into the calc with "average", more universally accessible gear to substantiate the claim that LFH does not make Crit Sins OP in the vast majority of cases, sans those luxuries, my point lies in the fact that top-end crit damage is unpottably high. It's the room for abuse in the upper echelons of play that concerns me.

 

If LFH no longer had the sharp bonus and a lower base crit boost, or maybe fixed the bonus to apply solely to Archer classes, the hat would be a lot more acceptable.


Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 09 December 2015 - 12:04 AM.

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#292 Nathy

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Posted 08 December 2015 - 11:59 PM

A good example of why nerfing 1 thing is a bad idea. As soon as it happens people will start complaining about something else (crit sinx) saying that needs nerfing too. The gms won't win and can't please everyone.
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#293 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 12:06 AM

A good example of why nerfing 1 thing is a bad idea. As soon as it happens people will start complaining about something else (crit sinx) saying that needs nerfing too. The gms won't win and can't please everyone.

 

The game is untenable as-is. The declining population and increasing complaints from multiple sides that don't always see eye to eye are proof enough of this fact. SOMETHING needs nerfing at the very least <3

 

Whoever decided to add Renewal gear without rebalancing the effects for Pre Re mechanics and the state of our server needs a swift boot to the head anyway.

 


Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 09 December 2015 - 12:09 AM.

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#294 zerowon

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 12:26 AM

Just make gtb not block magic and only block dispel . See what I did there if you want a balance a guild cap would be a great start not a item nerf we don't have all the defensive gear from kvm anyway.
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#295 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 01:12 AM

Just make gtb not block magic and only block dispel . See what I did there if you want a balance a guild cap would be a great start not a item nerf we don't have all the defensive gear from kvm anyway.

 

If it only blocked dispel (which I don't think is possible - it's either all "magic" skills/buffs/debuffs or none) then I'd have to point out its detrimental effects like double SP usage and loss of redux would no longer be suitable and would need revision.

 

In fact I'd go so far as to say the card would no longer worthy of the MVP title lol

 

Also oh my actual god stop suggesting KvMs as if you didn't know proliferation of them would be an indirect buff to Champs and Bombers.


Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 09 December 2015 - 01:13 AM.

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#296 Xellie

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 03:18 AM

+7LFH is not OP

+7 little feather hat +sharp arrow wont bring your damage to 12-15k even if you got 99str+EDP.  Maybe against monsters w/ lvl4 element but not against someone who wears asprika/cranial in PVP/WOE.

 A 110STR sinx can do 7k+ crit on someone with no redux equips on a pvp map. Put in cranial/asprika + WOE dmg reduction that would be around 3k+.  But for meg users, that would be 11k per hit(no reduction gears) and 6.5k(WOE redux + cranial/asprika) but at a very low crit rate(30%) or low aspd.

 But still what your claiming at 12-15k per hit on asprika users is very far from reality.

 

Just consider it as an additional paper card/racial card.

 

Wrong. pick your sinx weapons better.

 

Also sticking a % racial card on your head probably shouldn't be "ok"!

 

A good example of why nerfing 1 thing is a bad idea. As soon as it happens people will start complaining about something else (crit sinx) saying that needs nerfing too. The gms won't win and can't please everyone.

Crit sinx is op on this server, but LFH is only a part of the reason why.

 

 

Just make gtb not block magic and only block dispel . See what I did there if you want a balance a guild cap would be a great start not a item nerf we don't have all the defensive gear from kvm anyway.

 

Campitor already said that wasn't possible earlier on in the thread. It's when people keep bringing stuff up that was said to be impossible that these discussions become frustrating.

 

GTB works like this

 

Block all skills? y/n


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#297 Heart

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 03:27 AM

LFH is barely any reason why crit sinx is good on this server, I can pull off the same dmg with a GMG, or atleast close, and with gmg my grimtooth will hurt alot more.

Losing out 10% reducs on your headgear as a low hp char is a big deal, yes crit sinx dmg is OP but they are also a glass cannon, pretty easy to kill(ones without GR/DR) will get 1 gfisted always.  And also they are kinda useless in WoE SE.

 

Edit : I find it funny how people are okay with OP gears like KVM (man that +9 kvm jamadhar is beyond broken) but complain about LFH. Which is extremely easy to be replaced by another headgear.


Edited by Heart, 09 December 2015 - 03:30 AM.

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#298 Xellie

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 03:31 AM

Heart, we need to -talk- about sin stuff :p_idea:

 

edit: The person who brought it up was anti-KVM poster....


Edited by Xellie, 09 December 2015 - 03:33 AM.

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#299 Heart

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 03:36 AM

Heart, we need to -talk- about sin stuff :p_idea:

 

edit: The person who brought it up was anti-KVM poster....

 

"Talk", Yikes, lol.

Maybe tomorrow after my exam is over, just lurking forums while waiting for food.

I hate exams ._.


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#300 Xellie

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 03:40 AM

I mean I PMed something to you that is sorta funny, but I guess LFH matters because it's slotted - which obviously allows for the stunproof build w/o OH + the damage which is actually more than GMG because you can stack so many critical %

 

You're right in that it's irrelevant in WoE 2. But so is hibram according to the posters above. We can all theorycraft perfect situations in which a gear is OP/not OP but what matters is how often and how realistic those situations are.

 

 

I personally want to spend a woe or two on a crit sinx (because that way I never need to cranial swap) but only based on knowing how ridiculous the dps is. note: DPS and not per crit.


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