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WoE Rebalance and Event WoEs


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#26 schia

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 11:50 PM

whats preventing card effects from giving negative status resist?  Could we potentially have say a +100 mdef and a -100% blind/chaos/silence status resist and have it behave as expected with a net gain of 0% status resist?

 

While we're at it, whats stopping us from linking additional effects to status effects?  Could we potentially have, lets say poison status effect giving a -10% demi human damage tacked on to its original effects as well?  Is there separate item events that occurs on equip/unequip that updates your stats accordingly?  What about status effect events?  Figuring out whats possible could open up a lot more options.

 

If people are seriously considering trying out some rebalance changes then we should consider first figuring out what available options we have before fully committing to it.  That is assuming the management cares to attempt anything more than just simple number tweaks.

 

in before <cinnabomb'd>


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#27 Rayea

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 12:40 AM

Isn't there options for balancing WoE that go beyond item changes?

 

ex: 

Castle Reduction

Alliance disablement

 

Another idea is one that has been seen posted on these forums a few times, improving the rewards of WoE to inspire competing.

Instead of reducing the output of Falling Bishop Card, allow an upgrade to Aesprika where it reduces magical damage. 


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#28 Heart

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 02:33 AM

Instead of reducing the output of Falling Bishop Card, allow an upgrade to Aesprika where it reduces magical damage. 

 

That would a certain alliance really really happy.

But I don't think its a bad idea frankly.
 


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#29 Ramses

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 06:01 AM

30% extra dmg is enough of a drawback for GTB. A regular sinx can do 8k SB if you're using asprika, add in a lex and the wearer can be 1 shotted, frost joke?

 

 

 

Also about WoE i feel like rotating monthly beetween non-god/mvp woe and nerfed god/mvp would be a good idea

 

 

 


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#30 zerowon

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 02:53 PM

am truly saddened by the staff of this game and the little knowledge the Korean over lords share with you. how can we bring such drastic woe balance changes when it was addressed originally with the kvm armors, they do allow a user to get close to full water immunity and 90% fire immunity but not at the same time. there has to be a trade off between specialty damage/ min max offensive  gear and defensive gear.

you cant have your cake and eat it too!!!

 

i will ask the staff a few questions on there research into this proposal

have they seen how often in 1.0 & 2.0 a 150+ int hw with mind breaker and hibriams nukes it self to the following reflect skills in game,

Kaite

Platinum shield 2 -4 users plat shielding nukes you this reflect skill goes though gtb/sac so high matk high wizards get killed frequently unless they have super human reflexes to cancel there aoe/single target damage.

also the range of storm gust /meteor storm is 13/14 cells in a 9x9 area and most hw get platinum shielded off screen as meteor has a splash range onto

magnetic earth that procs the platinum shield from going off too

so if your really  serious about trying a balance first bring in the kvm armors and accessory's  god forbid the weapons cause everyone loses there mind on it but were fine with having everything from kvm but the weapons. try it out a few weeks  with actually data  and not blindly going into this like in alot of changes should i happened to remind the staff of there great account bound gear strategy from 2 years ago.


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#31 Xellie

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 03:04 PM

over abundance of crystal frags due to gsb

CP Blocks plat shield

Accessories allow 100% to both, if you're smart.


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#32 needmorezleep

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 03:11 PM

hibrams can have the -50% sp changed to + 250% sp if worn by a hw/scholar so they could sometimes get one shotted by soul burn if it needs a nerf since the -50% is just another buff really anything else is a bit of an overkill

id also be a fan of hibrams being able to pierce holy mdef since the angel buff isnt really that good because most angel mobs tend to be holy which already reduces most magic and on top of that tend to have high mdef =(


Edited by needmorezleep, 21 November 2015 - 03:12 PM.

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#33 Alaska

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 03:41 PM

Oops sorry for my last post, didn't notice it was classic only. :x

 

...please do something like this for Renewal. xD


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#34 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 03:46 PM

Please no to KvMs - weapons, armours AND accessories. They cause far more problems than they "solve" and their original introduction was an ill-thought out reaction to a toxic play environment that could have been dealt with in much more tactful ways. It would be the same here. I'd definitely love to see more options for damage reduction though, perhaps in the form of enchantable gear like Valk and SM stuff so that the economy benefits and PvM is futher incentivised.


Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 21 November 2015 - 04:09 PM.

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#35 Xellie

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 04:01 PM

Make people not wear GR to deal with hibram magic then line up 7~10 champs behind CP (so they can't plat shield it) with infinite SP items

 

That sounds like a great solution to me. I'm sure that will help the intermediate players immensely.


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#36 zerowon

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 04:48 PM

You have no concrete data that kvm armor and accessories will cause problems other then your word of mouth. It is a free gear that can be perfectly fine for mid tier woe and most classes do just fine with that. Speciality gear is just special and it costs a lot to own that when time is a factor y'all want more guilds in woe then. Prove me wrong that kvm won't help build up small guilds into bigger ones we went with the old way of doing things for 3 years and all that's happens is 8 ex guild leaders playing for another guild leader during siege now instead of being there own entity in the server
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#37 Undying

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 04:49 PM

My opinion on WoE re-balance/fixing probelms....

 

1. Reduce Castles

2. WoE Practice Addition

3. Change Rewards

4. Fix Time Consuming Problems

5. New Guild Incentive Package

 

1. Reduce Castles

 

Removing one castle from each realm for all WoE's would be a good start. There is no reason to have as many castles open as there currently are. Having a small population totally spread out will make the population seem even smaller to the players. Condensing the areas a tiny bit might make it seem more active. Unfortunately servers work like this. Active servers gain players, inactive servers do not. 

 

How to redistribute god pieces? Have a rotating castle in each realm that has a chance of dropping two different pieces. These will be seen as more "sought after" castles, thus producing more action. 

 

2. WoE practice addition. It's in the foundry, just do it all ready. 

 

3. I would NOT put more "powerful" gears into castle drops. The reasoning is this. Castle drops have already been farmed enough. Don't let it ruin more of the poor economy. However, I personally think GSB would be good as castle loot. It would make the strong stronger (really just have more free time tbh), but it would also allow newer guilds to get supplies well participating in the rest of the game. For example, a new guild will be more likely to spend their time leveling and trying to get basic gears for their characters rather then farming for supplies for WoE. Putting GSB in would allow players to free up time to participate in the rest of the game.

 

Or allow an exchange for crap castle loots for supplies/gsb/anything.

 

4. I am not sure what can be done about potting. Judge me, I don't really care... But truth is... Potting is the dullest part of the game and a total waste of time, keystrokes, and braincells. It is the biggest bottle neck in "supplying" a guild. If I had to personally supply a guild I would honestly bot the potting process. I do not have to supply for a guild, so I don't bot. The point is, it is a giant waste of time and nobody in their right mind wants to do it "vanilla" for years and years (in some cases decade +). Do something to speed it up please.

 

5. I liked the idea about giving out some "meh" rental gear for a guild starting up. "Other servers" have people filling out applications to qualify for this. That would mean on the GM side a bit of work. However, it is 2015 and iRO has PLENTY of legitimate competition. Let's get up with the times. This should be "meh" gear (if you guys are interested I could do a list) with the purpose of allowing a group of players to start the server off a bit easier. 

 

I have many more opinions, but I guess that is it for now for "improvements/re balance".

 

Event WoE's for me are not worth logging in. Just let me WoE how it is suppose to be. 

 

Edit: Opinion number 6.... Create some sort of bi annual competition with a solid reward. Discussion could be had to figure out what the measurable reference point would be to pick a "winner". Give the winner (bi annually) a free creation. Crazy idea, doubt many will want it but if people don't want to do the quest lets make it a real competition! 


Edited by Undying, 21 November 2015 - 04:53 PM.

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#38 Xellie

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 04:51 PM

You have no concrete data that kvm armor and accessories will cause problems other then your word of mouth. It is a free gear that can be perfectly fine for mid tier woe and most classes do just fine with that. Speciality gear is just special and it costs a lot to own that when time is a factor y'all want more guilds in woe then. Prove me wrong that kvm won't help build up small guilds into bigger ones we went with the old way of doing things for 3 years and all that's happens is 8 ex guild leaders playing for another guild leader during siege now instead of being there own entity in the server

 

Here's my data

 

http://db.irowiki.org/classic/

http://irowiki.org/classic/Main_Page

http://calcx.wushuang.ws/

 

 

*edit: didnt realize that embeds


Edited by Xellie, 21 November 2015 - 04:52 PM.

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#39 needmorezleep

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 04:54 PM

You have no concrete data that kvm armor and accessories will cause problems other then your word of mouth. It is a free gear that can be perfectly fine for mid tier woe and most classes do just fine with that. Speciality gear is just special and it costs a lot to own that when time is a factor y'all want more guilds in woe then. Prove me wrong that kvm won't help build up small guilds into bigger ones we went with the old way of doing things for 3 years and all that's happens is 8 ex guild leaders playing for another guild leader during siege now instead of being there own entity in the server

but is there any record of players wanting to join a server with kvm gear vs not having kvm gear?

also think of the side effects of kvm armour people will become very tanky and since our aegis is not meant to do a higher skill per second cap like other officials it will turn into a coma/gear break tarot rng war which people in the western world generally do not like to see which will make it even harder to get new guilds onto the server


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#40 zerowon

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 05:09 PM

Those link serve as estimated values just like repairing a car or how long a job will take you. There is still margin for error and they only show the ideal situation which anyone knows that never is always the case you say players don't like it but we can try it just like we tried account bound gear if it don't work it gets removed it's not like the kvm stuff can be traded between accounts and super hard to trace. The other servers might of had kvm on it but this one has never and it's a worth a try why are y'all so afraid ???
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#41 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 05:22 PM

You have no concrete data that kvm armor and accessories will cause problems other then your word of mouth. It is a free gear that can be perfectly fine for mid tier woe and most classes do just fine with that. Speciality gear is just special and it costs a lot to own that when time is a factor y'all want more guilds in woe then. Prove me wrong that kvm won't help build up small guilds into bigger ones we went with the old way of doing things for 3 years and all that's happens is 8 ex guild leaders playing for another guild leader during siege now instead of being there own entity in the server

 

The past history of iRO - pidgeonholing of gear options and proliferation of the bull-_- bursty meta (hi Champs) - plus our server's infinite SP consumables as previously stated don't count as examples?

 

I'd much rather see some versatility added to our current gear options than bring KvMs over.

 

you say players don't like it but we can try it just like we tried account bound gear if it don't work it gets removed

 

Which resulted in a large chunk of the playerbase leaving in disgust. Kay.


Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 21 November 2015 - 05:24 PM.

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#42 Xellie

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 05:33 PM

KVM better than GR?

 

No it's a low-mid tier gear which will still leave people open to dying in even more obnoxious ways. It will make minimum impact on the magic at the cost of increasing the effectiveness of the champ/acid bomb crap that is already too prolific.

 

The armors should be put in, not the accessories (100% resistance to physical attacks is stupid). not the weapons and KVM is NOT a substitute for fixing the other problems.


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#43 Undying

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 05:55 PM

The past history of iRO - pidgeonholing of gear options and proliferation of the bull-_- bursty meta (hi Champs) - plus our server's infinite SP consumables as previously stated don't count as examples?

 

I'd much rather see some versatility added to our current gear options than bring KvMs over.

 

 

Which resulted in a large chunk of the playerbase leaving in disgust. Kay.

 

In all fairness, infinite SP consumables isn't something specific to iRO Classic. Yes, this server allows multiple ways to obtain necessary SP items. However, history of iRO servers will show that there has always been infinite SP items but they were infinite due to bots. Regardless, guilds who are willing to do anything will obtain enough necessary SP items no matter what (unless they are  all removed from game lol).

 

Infinite SP consumables that only botters benefit from or level the playing field and allow multiple ways to obtain it? It's a no brainer.

 

I do not disagree with your other points. Just felt it necessary to make a point about SP consumables. 


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#44 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 06:10 PM

In all fairness, infinite SP consumables isn't something specific to iRO Classic. Yes, this server allows multiple ways to obtain necessary SP items. However, history of iRO servers will show that there has always been infinite SP items but they were infinite due to bots. Regardless, guilds who are willing to do anything will obtain enough necessary SP items no matter what (unless they are  all removed from game lol).

 

Infinite SP consumables that only botters benefit from or level the playing field and allow multiple ways to obtain it? It's a no brainer.

 

I do not disagree with your other points. Just felt it necessary to make a point about SP consumables. 

 

Yes I'm aware o.o That's why I don't believe KvM implementation here will be any different, hence why we should be paying more attention to its effect on Pre-Renewal and elsewhere.


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#45 Undying

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 06:35 PM

+9 holy avenger please! 

 

The weps don't belong. I don't care about the armors.

 

(sidenote: I still would love to play with a +9 holy avenger on classic hehe)


Edited by Undying, 21 November 2015 - 06:36 PM.

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#46 Heart

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 07:30 PM

+9 holy avenger please! 

 

The weps don't belong. I don't care about the armors.

 

(sidenote: I still would love to play with a +9 holy avenger on classic hehe)

 

getting that without certs is gonna make ppl cry alot though.

also +9 glorious jamadhar /rice


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#47 Rayea

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 09:22 PM

Perhaps the KVM rings could be put ingame to only work with magic so that they do not stack with Aesprika?


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#48 lxst

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 05:51 AM

woe TE: great idea. nuff said.

 

KVM: if this was the intended balance the source game had. then we should get it too. really shouldn't have to say more. perhaps the rest of new world drops first. but if it was in kro pre renewal it should be on classic.

 

event woe: i would like a woe with only super novices, or only novices. also would like to see an event non reborn woe. or best of all a woe where only one woe 2 castle is active and the whole server fights over it for some cool prize like a no stats headgear that looks like the lord kaho horns gm item.  

 

 

god-like item creation: i would love to see a no-gods no-mvps/minis tourney with like 1v1 same class and 4v4-8v8 multi class or what not with god item creations, +10 refines, and/or commemorative headgears (that look like the lord kaho horns gm item) as top prizes! and a lottery between the other participants for a create so even someone like me at least has a reaaaaally low chance.

 

 

or just a lottery for x-mass or something where one of each keep box are the top prizes and a bunch of ppl get coal. lol.   

 

Edited by lxst, 22 November 2015 - 05:57 AM.

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#49 Xellie

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 09:40 PM

Try to remember renewal happened for a reason.


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#50 Kebtung

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 11:34 PM

Option 3 sounds good. Nerf the effect of OP items in WoE scene only.


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