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WoE Rebalance and Event WoEs


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#76 zerowon

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 12:39 AM

Just will say as well u need 190int mind breaker ans 8k matk and hibriam to reach even close to that number of 16k Jt with them wearing 54% Demi human and wind armor which we have none of that stuff please state actually combat data that's currently in our server and not future items or what if scenarios
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#77 Xellie

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 01:07 AM

Well I won't point out that particular calc doesn't have the TSOD skull cap combo (because it doesn't), but the wind armor 16k set up was calced for a front liner using stun resist, so yes I mispoke in that they wouldn't have 50% redux. I mixed my numbers.

 

However, with a wind armor we do have 10~17k firebolts on 50% redux so I guess that makes it ok (double checking on that right now). There's no positive elemental reduction here.

 

Keeping it real!

 

Lets assume people use wind armors because they don't need stun resistance for some crazy reason. MDEF from a wind armor is kinda poo but here we go

 

JT no problem

 

k6pdbDt.png

 

 

Ok livable but what if the wizard instantly changes element? (tip, they can and will do this)

 

0v2mOI5.png

Well crap, I hope they don't have any other damage happening.... or lex.

 

Stormgust tho?

 

yhUKf5E.png

 

 

But lets be real people aren't using wind armor. Lets look at JT vs neutral without any lex

cvVbQpP.png

 

 

And stormgust

wvdi4Ui.png

 

 

 

I also didn't include strings! so ignore the DPS!

 

As you can see this is without BC and it doesn't use any of the MATK boosting foods. I've never included lex, other damage sources and just an FYI this is pretty much a similar setup to our current wiz. But he doesn't have hibram.... Yet.

 

Dex is a little low (its below 140 but above 130) and has quite a large amount of cast % redux gear attached to it.

I also neglected to card it's armor. So that could be more int if deadly, or not if unfrozen.

 

 

 

 

Just for laughs, A meteor storm precast from a single wiz would be 50k+ damage per second vs wind armor with 40% fire redux and 50% demi redux (not everyone can use CK tho!).

Don't suggest using mdef because we all know everyone will die to acid bomb lol.

 

4zxcLza.png

 

And who only precasts with one wiz and why is this OK to do behind multiple CPs?


Edited by Xellie, 26 November 2015 - 01:38 AM.

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#78 rojoky113

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 01:45 AM

The average target in woe and/or a gvg is definitely not going to be wearing 50% demi reduction and wind armor. Saying that wind armor makes it alright is like saying nobody will ever die to gfist because GRs exist. My quick calc with skull cap, tsod and very reasonable matck gear vs neutral element regular reductions put amped JT at 16k and unamped 10k with near insta-cast. Someone really trying to optimize every last matck boost or with access to god items can hit several thousand higher as already shown above.


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#79 Xellie

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 01:46 AM

one more for poops and giggles

 

PW9KSTg.png

 

 

edit:

This is by no means realistic but lol

 

if you have 8.5k matk sure why not

http://calcx.wushuan...aakaaaagaaHaHaH

 

if theres any realistic gear combo out there on iro iunno

calc doesnt save wind armor and 65% range redux weird

 

took out your weapon and put an obtainable one in and

 

http://calcx.wushuan...aakaaaagaaHaHaH

 

such lulz


Edited by Xellie, 26 November 2015 - 01:58 AM.

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#80 kokeshicat

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 02:01 AM

option no. 3 please :) i don't really like that much MVP cards lol. and subduing their effects will emphasize on how skillful you are in handling your characters in WoE. let it be a test of skills and strategy than of equipment. just my idea. :D i'm sharing this to my guild so they would voice out their opinions as well here.


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#81 needmorezleep

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 02:10 AM

option no. 3 please :) i don't really like that much MVP cards lol. and subduing their effects will emphasize on how skillful you are in handling your characters in WoE. let it be a test of skills and strategy than of equipment. just my idea. :D i'm sharing this to my guild so they would voice out their opinions as well here.

classic server my friend =(


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#82 Hrishi

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 02:48 AM

If they are constantly switching element, they aren't amping. If they are amping, their DPS is low with spells like firebolt. All your calcs show the wizard amp'd. Stack some MDEF and long range reduction and watch that damage drop like a rock.

 

It's a waste of time to argue. iRO classic is basically a fully customized pserver at this point so the GMs will end up doing whatever they want in their infinite ignorance.


Edited by Hrishi, 26 November 2015 - 02:49 AM.

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#83 Xellie

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 02:53 AM

Amp your spells without a delay or cast time? Great idea, just use these.

 

fBbOFt3.jpg

 

Stacking mdef is not that easy in meta play. Why would people do stuff like run horn when Classic is filled with infinity ygg champs and LKs? Sounds like suicide. Valk armors give mdef? Excellent.

 

 

BIV3lmt.jpg

 

You need to think of REALISTIC gears to counter this stuff. Stack mdef? Die to bomb probably.

 

I know you're smarter than this, come on now.

 

edit: if your implication is to play rock paper scissors with elemental armors, that's silly. Not only is it impractical but there's other damage sources to consider, FAS, other wizards, Storm gust/Ganbantein (hopefully with quag!1!!!). SImply put, using elemental armor to counter a single spell just gets them destroyed by others or the affect is neutralized/pointless. 


Edited by Xellie, 26 November 2015 - 03:11 AM.

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#84 Hrishi

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 03:12 AM

Amp scrolls

 

Stacking mdef is not that easy in meta play. Why would people do stuff like run horn when Classic is filled with infinity ygg champs and LKs? Sounds like suicide. Valk armors give mdef? Excellent.

 

You need to think of REALISTIC gears to counter this stuff. Stack mdef? Die to bomb probably.

 

I know you're smarter than this, come on now.

 

You CAN stack up to ~40 MDEF on a good many classes without compromising on other stats. Maybe some classes have the short end of the stick, but Gypsies have their BG set to give a boatload of ranged reduction and Scholars have tons of MDEF on their gear.

 

As for horn, I wasn't even talking about horn. I would not wear a horn with these many champs in play. Alligators and Noxious alone is 20% less damage from wizards.

 

At the end of the day, it takes a hibram, amp scrolls and mind break for a high wiz to slightly overtake the single target DPS of a single biochem targetting something with high VIT.

 

If amp scrolls is such a problem, why are people advocating for changing an existing item in the game rather than simply deleting the offending kafra crap from the server and refunding everybody? Unless the game needs to be balanced around kafra crap, in which case I have a good many other suggestions along those lines.

 

When all else fails, you have a GTB to completely neutralize hibrams and ME to stop hibrams from affecting an AoE, especially since we are talking iRO's version of magic/ME/ganbantein which is significantly weaker compared to eA.


Edited by Hrishi, 26 November 2015 - 03:16 AM.

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#85 Xellie

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 03:18 AM

You CAN stack up to ~40 MDEF on a good many classes without compromising on other stats. Maybe some classes have the short end of the stick, but Gypsies have their BG set to give a boatload of ranged reduction and Scholars have tons of MDEF on their gear.

 

As for horn, I wasn't even talking about horn. I would not wear a horn with these many champs in play. Alligators and Noxious alone is 20% less damage from wizards.

 

If amp scrolls is such a problem, why are people advocating for changing an existing item in the game rather than simply deleting the offending kafra crap from the server and refunding everybody? Unless the game needs to be balanced around kafra crap, in which case I have a good many other suggestions along those lines.

 

Tell this to biochemists that need stun resist. Noxious with all this champ play that you mentioned? You just contradicted yourself!

 

Even IF you ran the nox, it won't help by the time you add in lex and/or other damage sources or actual DPS. All of those calcs are a single damage source against a rather highly unrealistic amount of demi resist. In reality, it's a combo of range/demi/mdef which would be less effective.

 

Whilst it's viable for some/few classes, it's not a good answer to all. Also, note those calcs are 50% demi redux, how many classes run 50%? Not many.

 

That said, guilds could just run pure gypsy/HP/linker/scholar compositions to counter a single hibram user. Sounds like fun. Hope you like tarot.

 

lol gtb vs aoe gvg isn't everything cp precasts are real bro and emblemess instant cast speed pot scholars can cancel an ME for a fraction of a second and that does wipe a whole guild should everyone have gtb lets make gtb aoe so the cards are equal power wew ok im done i can't brain i havent slept this entire discussion is silly. I'll pm camp my calcs and he can decidde with raw numbers


Edited by Xellie, 26 November 2015 - 03:23 AM.

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#86 Godly1

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 03:18 AM

If you get one shot by champs regardless of Fist I would default Horn/Noxious. With the lack of LKs currently in WoE 2.0 it's the most viable option.


Edited by Godly1, 26 November 2015 - 03:19 AM.

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#87 kingarthur6687

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 03:19 AM

Alligators and Noxious alone is 20% less damage from wizards.

I might be mistaken, but I am fairly certain that ranged attacks !== magic attacks. =V
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#88 Xellie

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 03:20 AM

If you get one shot by champs regardless of Fist I would default Horn/Noxious. With the lack of LKs currently in WoE 2.0 it's the most viable option.

 

da pally doe
 


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#89 needmorezleep

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 03:22 AM

I might be mistaken, but I am fairly certain that ranged attacks !== magic attacks. =V

they are ranged attacks did they change that in renewal o;?


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#90 Nathy

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 03:23 AM

A strong counter to high wizards regardless of their gear, Magnetic Earth. Also this is a team game where you need team work and organisation. Magnetic Earth, combined with 1/2 linkers, a sacrifice paladin and a slim potion pitcher and the high wizard is now virtually useless whatever gear they have.


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#91 kingarthur6687

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 03:24 AM

they are ranged attacks did they change that in renewal o;?

As far as I understood both in Pre- and Renewal, ranged attacks as concerning Noxious/Alligator were with regards to physical ranged attacks such as Acid Bomb and arrow fire from an Archer class, among others.

Like I said I could be mistaken, but I have thus far never heard of Noxious/Alligator being used to reduce damage from Wizards in all my years of playing RO.

Edited by kingarthur6687, 26 November 2015 - 03:25 AM.

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#92 Xellie

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 03:25 AM

As far as I understood both in Pre- and Renewal, ranged attacks as concerning Noxious/Alligator were with regards to physical ranged attacks such as Acid Bomb and arrow fire from an Archer class, among others.

Like I said I could be mistaken, but I have thus far never heard of Noxious/Alligator being used to reduce damage from Wizards in all my years of playing RO.

 

they reduce bolt spells
 


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#93 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 03:26 AM

A strong counter to high wizards regardless of their gear, Magnetic Earth. Also this is a team game where you need team work and organisation. Magnetic Earth, combined with 1/2 linkers, a sacrifice paladin and a slim potion pitcher and the high wizard is now virtually useless whatever gear they have.

 

ME doesn't block single target spells.

 

Also lol ME isn't so foolproof when competent players are around.


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#94 Godly1

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 03:27 AM

da pally doe
 

 

If a pally can't outpot bishop SG then he's doing something wrong.
 


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#95 kingarthur6687

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 03:27 AM

they reduce bolt spells

TIL then, learn new stuff everyday even after all these years. =V
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#96 Nathy

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 03:28 AM

ME doesn't block single target spells.

 

Also lol ME isn't so foolproof when competent players are around.

 

thats where a linkers kaupe comes in. As I said, its a team game. And also your talking about "competent players" That is where skill comes in. That has nothing to do with gears


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#97 Xellie

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 03:29 AM

If a pally can't outpot bishop SG then he's doing something wrong.
 

 

Talking about fist  >:|

 

Pally is taking potential bishop damage from one source, you're suggesting noxious to combat bishop when you guys fish with gtb megged champs? Pally may as well bwing and save everyone money.


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#98 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 03:31 AM

thats where a linkers kaupe comes in. As I said, its a team game. And also your talking about "competent players" That is where skill comes in. That has nothing to do with gears

 

*kaite

 

Also that doesn't fly in CP.


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#99 Godly1

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 03:34 AM

Talking about fist  >:|

 

Pally is taking potential bishop damage from one source, you're suggesting noxious to combat bishop when you guys fish with gtb megged champs? Pally may as well bwing and save everyone money.

 

We had no gtb champs woe - all of our gtbs were on chems (3)

 

The megs last woe from us - 2 for me/regret on sinx and 1 each for jerome (fish champ) and 1 for kevin (ecall champ)


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#100 Nathy

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 03:37 AM

Talking about fist  >:|

 

Pally is taking potential bishop damage from one source, you're suggesting noxious to combat bishop when you guys fish with gtb megged champs? Pally may as well bwing and save everyone money.

 

If you now want to talk about vh v sgn, vh has tao devo paladins so they can live a fist. And your chems have gtbs so fbh is meaning less to them.


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