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Intelligent discussion about raiders


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#51 Phish

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 09:00 PM

Like I said, increasing the cooldown would be fine so that the raider cant keep you on fire the whole fight. But katars, have 3 skills with that status.....
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#52 tENLAVUU

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 09:43 PM

I honestly have no idea how you play but personally, going up against skilled knights, I do run into trouble. as for skill spamming, i do agree its stupid, just about every class is able to skill spam. only way to fix it is make it so a cooldown has to be fully played before using another skill.

but back on topic about the "op burns" i don't feel its op at all. things are done in proportion tho. u go up vs a knight, burn and do a skill and do around 5ish dmg in a few seconds. then i'd get muted stuned debuffed etc and end up doing around 3xx or so melee hits during this. in that time, that's more than a sufficient amount of time for the knight to deal such dmg back hitting 1k+ per skill in addition to melee hits. after that it's also timing of skills and how well you play that as well.

Edited by tENLAVUU, 01 December 2010 - 09:47 PM.

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#53 Santa1K

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 10:20 PM

What game are you playing Irtofu? Are we even playing the same game as you are?
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#54 poopiehead

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 11:59 PM

What game are you playing Irtofu? Are we even playing the same game as you are?


he plays a game where raiders dominate.

why are u always referring to champs? this game isnt only about champs you know, there are actually other classes people play.Also, raiders hit low? really? what are you basing that off of? melee attacks vs a knight?


raiders hit less than mage/knight/champs/scouts/bourgs

skill vs skill or normal atk vs normal atk.

Edited by poopiehead, 02 December 2010 - 12:01 AM.

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#55 BrownBear

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 05:43 AM

raiders hit less than mage/knight/champs/scouts/bourgs

skill vs skill or normal atk vs normal atk.

I'm pretty sure a raider will deal more damage in the same time frame than a knight will (of equal gear and skill). Posted Image


Guys, lets not simply attack the poster. Lets actually look at the suggestion and its ramifications. It seems like some of you are just biased against anything he says. This applies to him too though.

Burn does tend to be overkill at times as it can provide a crutch for weaker people since it will deal the same damage no matter what. But I do believe that ever since the damage calculations were changed, raiders have needed a skill like this to be able to touch soldier classes since melee hits were greatly restricted in their damage. For that sole reason I disagree that the burn damage needs to be nerfed.

However, I do think that giving them three burn skills and one with a very short cooldown makes it too easy to keep a target burned during an entire fight. Especially when the burn duration greatly outlasts the cooldown (pheonix slash). So maybe that should be addressed. Maybe change one of the burns (like flame slash) to something else and increase the cooldown on pheonix slash?

Edited by BrownBear, 02 December 2010 - 05:54 AM.

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#56 Xros

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 05:47 AM

I'm pretty sure a raider will deal more damage in the same time frame than a knight will (of equal gear and skill). Posted Image


Guys, lets not simply attack the poster. Lets actually look at the suggestion and its ramifications. It seems like some of you are just biased against anything he says.

Burn does tend to be overkill at times as it can provide a crutch for weaker people since it will deal the same damage no matter what. But I do believe that ever since the damage calculations were changed, raiders have needed a skill like this to be able to touch soldier classes since melee hits were greatly restricted in their damage. For that sole reason I disagree that the burn damage needs to be nerfed.

However, I do think that giving them three burn skills and one with a very short cooldown makes it too easy to keep a target burned during an entire fight. Especially when the burn duration greatly outlasts the cooldown (pheonix slash). So maybe that should be addressed. Maybe change one of the burns (like flame slash) to something else and increase the cooldown on pheonix slash?


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#57 poopiehead

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 08:07 AM

Err yeah. Duno how knights snuck in there lol!
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#58 LeoKaito

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 08:16 AM

can anyone help me ? please please please i posted new topics and seems like no one is reading it .
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#59 HellGuardian

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 08:50 AM

can anyone help me ? please please please i posted new topics and seems like no one is reading it .


@LeoKaito
You must be out of your *^^* mind .....

On topics, Fire is not stackable and even if you keep using the skill have same effect wont help much and the base damage of all the skill that raiders have is pretty low compare to others except cleric & arti.

If you are in war, the burn skill is not effecting anyone other then those solo without party. Hence back to the 1 vs 1 scenario, the way I see burn skill is like every other class have debuff skill. DoT skill have a chance to heal but with high damage skill, you just receive the damage and die on the spot.
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#60 paLDube

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 08:15 PM

instead of saying no to raiders not being able to tank more then knights can you justify your reasoning? instead of saying oh no this or no that. Also your idea of a balanced classes makes no sense at all, you are not basing it off the design of the game and more on the skills of a player.


i dont even need some reasoning to justify what you are saying . ..its already justified of all the facts of what i said earlier..
huh!? my idea to balance classes? i didnt remember what i said about balancing a classes cause i dont even need to. ..
yea most people saying CHAMPIONS are OVERPOWERED than a raider(and i think your the only one saying RADIERS are OP). .
and most of people now playing champs because of their advantage now . .and i was like so what!? i didnt take that as a problem i take that as a challenge and atleast it gives me a few excitement(this game is already boring anyway)
and LOL basing off the desing of this game!? you know what ima tell you something THIS GAME IS ALREADY BASED ON LUCK. ..


and for the PVM/PVE. . .ididnt really see any problem of this

Edited by paLDube, 02 December 2010 - 08:18 PM.

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#61 Irtofu

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 09:20 PM

i dont even need some reasoning to justify what you are saying . ..its already justified of all the facts of what i said earlier..
huh!? my idea to balance classes? i didnt remember what i said about balancing a classes cause i dont even need to. ..
yea most people saying CHAMPIONS are OVERPOWERED than a raider(and i think your the only one saying RADIERS are OP). .
and most of people now playing champs because of their advantage now . .and i was like so what!? i didnt take that as a problem i take that as a challenge and atleast it gives me a few excitement(this game is already boring anyway)
and LOL basing off the desing of this game!? you know what ima tell you something THIS GAME IS ALREADY BASED ON LUCK. ..


and for the PVM/PVE. . .ididnt really see any problem of this


lol @ your post, like i said to poopiehead this game doesnt only consist of just champs, so stop always bring that up, theres already a thread on that if you want to make comments on champs and how overpowered they are, please do it over there. If not basing it off the game then what? sorry to say thats what you call a balanced class/game. Also since most of the people that I see bashing this thread tends to players that only play their raider 99% of the time, some nice feed back from other people that play other classes would be nice.

@adam, yes increasing the cool down would be a start.
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#62 Irtofu

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 09:25 PM

he plays a game where raiders dominate.



raiders hit less than mage/knight/champs/scouts/bourgs

skill vs skill or normal atk vs normal atk.


instead of posting useless comments like "he plays a game where raiders dominate", try look at it from all the other classes perspective and try to contribute to the topic. Also how you say raiders hit less then all the other classes, they also receive the lowest or 2nd lowest damage out of all classes, and definitely the lowest if the opposing class doesnt have cleric buffs. Also, raiders do not hitless then scouts and knights, test it out.

Edited by Irtofu, 02 December 2010 - 09:26 PM.

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#63 Soda

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 10:32 PM

how is that the same? can you please list what type of gear you have and what type of gear he has? and puri does nothing because the skills cooldown is so short

Purify DOES SOMETHING, i dont know any dumb raider that will just spam burn through the whole fight (plus its really a disadvantage aswell to spam skills in uw [that is if ur a raider]). Ive also played different class, the only time i find burn op is in PVP :).. example if im playing my cleric once i get bured i can just heal purify stun the raider then run.. no damage done (let the party members do the rest) Period. AND ALSO raiders hit less than a scout, when im playing my cleric, only a good raider can do actual damage to me and a scout (a good one) is even hard to tank plus their poison and m-spd debuff which makes it hard to run.

Edited by Soda, 02 December 2010 - 10:41 PM.

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#64 Irtofu

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 10:36 PM

Purify DOES SOMETHING, i dont know any dumb raider that will just spam burn through the whole fight (plus its really a disadvantage aswell to spam skills in uw [that is if ur a raider]).


never said that it doesnt do anything, but to get puri you either got to have a cleric puri u, which totally has nothing to do with class balancing because that will be considered being aided by another class,which most people dont tend to have access to 24/7 and 2nd puri potions take so long to cast its not even worth using, specially when raiders can just cast burn again.

Edited by Irtofu, 02 December 2010 - 10:38 PM.

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#65 Irtofu

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 10:44 PM

I honestly have no idea how you play but personally, going up against skilled knights, I do run into trouble. as for skill spamming, i do agree its stupid, just about every class is able to skill spam. only way to fix it is make it so a cooldown has to be fully played before using another skill.

but back on topic about the "op burns" i don't feel its op at all. things are done in proportion tho. u go up vs a knight, burn and do a skill and do around 5ish dmg in a few seconds. then i'd get muted stuned debuffed etc and end up doing around 3xx or so melee hits during this. in that time, that's more than a sufficient amount of time for the knight to deal such dmg back hitting 1k+ per skill in addition to melee hits. after that it's also timing of skills and how well you play that as well.



lol no idea what u are talking about, you do not do 5 damage to a knight and also the fact that you really seen a successful knight that melee's raiders? come on who are you kidding, see how much damage a knight with melee when a raider is buffed, melees do so little damage compared to skills because of how slow the attack speed on knights are, and if you want more attack speed u will proabably lose so much acc ur melees again will be close to useless.
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#66 Soda

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 10:45 PM

never said that it doesnt do anything, but to get puri you either got to have a cleric puri u, which totally has nothing to do with class balancing because that will be considered being aided by another class,which most people dont tend to have access to 24/7 and 2nd puri potions take so long to cast its not even worth using, specially when raiders can just cast burn again.

Even tho they can cast it again, we all know uw is about ganging so if its a knight that is being burned then he will just have to tank it and let others kill him, and about knights hitting poop damage on raider, it depends on the knights gear/build. So if ur hitting crap then its you who's the problem not the class.

Edited by Soda, 02 December 2010 - 11:34 PM.

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#67 Irtofu

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 11:26 PM

Even tho they can cast it again, we all know uw is about ganging so if its a knight that is being burned then he will just have to tank it and let others kill him and about knights hitting poop damage on knight, it depends on the knights gear/build. So if ur hitting crap then its you who's the problem not the class.


wait what? no idea what u are talking about here lol... you totally lost me... also I never said anything about knights vs knights.
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#68 Soda

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 11:33 PM

wait what? no idea what u are talking about here lol... you totally lost me... also I never said anything about knights vs knights.

woops..i got confused abit with my sentence.. Let me edit

Edited by Soda, 03 December 2010 - 06:37 AM.

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#69 poopiehead

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 12:29 AM

instead of posting useless comments like "he plays a game where raiders dominate", try look at it from all the other classes perspective and try to contribute to the topic. Also how you say raiders hit less then all the other classes, they also receive the lowest or 2nd lowest damage out of all classes, and definitely the lowest if the opposing class doesnt have cleric buffs. Also, raiders do not hitless then scouts and knights, test it out.


i do look at it from other classes, i have a knight. i use it to uw. i fight raiders, they burn me. i dont see a problem.
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#70 Codar

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 08:02 AM

Let me sum up this thread into 5 words.
MIKE CANT PLAY A KNIGHT.
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#71 tENLAVUU

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 09:11 AM

Just for the sake of how ridiculous I think this thread is and to prove my point that it's the only thing that gives raiders a chance as well as strengthen my previous post on how dmgs are made to proportion in addition to the player's timing/skill use, I've went out of my way to make a video.



Edited by tENLAVUU, 03 December 2010 - 09:14 AM.

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#72 HellGuardian

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 09:41 AM

No offense but this is just a fail thread as the way it is, not more nor less as a complain toward a raider. As I previously stated, I would prefer to have a solid damage over a DoT but that is the only comparable skill that raider have. DoT skill can be cancel if you choose to but compare to other solid base damage skill, cant just cancel them and suck up the damage ...
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#73 poopiehead

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 11:09 AM

Just for the sake of how ridiculous I think this thread is and to prove my point that it's the only thing that gives raiders a chance as well as strengthen my previous post on how dmgs are made to proportion in addition to the player's timing/skill use, I've went out of my way to make a video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IP1sGcu6uo


would u like to trade ur comp for my soul? :P
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#74 BrownBear

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 11:28 AM

Is your comp really that bad?...
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#75 Phish

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 11:45 AM

Is your comp really that bad?...


No, his soul is.
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