394 replies to this topic

[Jolen]

Tbh i dont think it wont be the same at all as nerfing. Nerfing would be changing the items effect/use which does not guarantee at all any balance plus theres room for error. Atleast with said items being disabled its a much safer/direct approach to eliminating a problem completely rather than it lingering around. Also imo you wouldnt have to really pick and choose considering theres only 2-3 mvp cards that would be considered "game changing" vs new players(IE: GTB, FBH). God items imo i feel are a little different considering its a guild effort.  Aside from that everything else in this game itemwise is fine even for new players..

[rojoky113]

I was actually gonna say wouldn't plat shields on non-gtb users be a pretty decent counter if hibrams are really the overpowering factor in a fight? Only problem is the CP pre-cast ignores that counter, but a different strategy for getting through the precast could prolly be devised.

Edited by rojoky113, 26 November 2015 - 12:40 PM.

[Xellie]

There's a couple of problems with plat shields that the general community overlook

 

First of all the proc rate is higher than it should be here on classic.

 

The Magic Mirror skill level it procs is supposed to produce a 40% chance to reflect magic. However as it stands, they upped the proc rate to 40% to proc the skill..... so it's 40% chance to get a 40% chance... which is higher than it should be traditionally. Great for killing non-AP HWs with hibram, complete bull for normal H.wizards

 

Secondly, You cannot activate Magic Mirror in CP. For ever time this is listed as a counter to a card that can be stacked on top of itself like meteors (you can't stack GTBs, the only other MVP card I can think of that can be "stacked" in this manner is sam spec) - I have to say, it cannot and will not and does not proc in CP. A little bit retarded when you think about the overabundance of crystal fragments rending kaite useless.

 

Yes I think some catalyst items are in oversupply causing balance issues. Do we want to go back to humans vs bots? Of course not, but bots can't really bot fragments the same way they can bot bomb mats, so I think that is something to consider.

 

I'm quite happy to devise counters to precasts, LFF-AR portal bugging is always quite nice, tho it only works against fire/water (surprise, we don't have 12 gtbs!) - that's an intricate level of game knowledge that is

a/ Aegis specific

b/ borderline questionable in the way the community might whine to get it made illegal

c/ Requires a set up of characters that revolves around numbers and the average guild cannot complete the battle by giving up players to do this.

 

 

To address something else about the mentality of the server, I could spend a few minutes talking about why Valhalla's recruitment works and why our playerbase maintains. This is going to be awful to read but it's horrible to say.

 

Guys, I'm active on the forums and I stream RO. When people see a bunch of guys zerging me on the forums, they look at me batting them back with my +10 forum posts of justice one vs three hundred, doing glorious battle with people who have nothing more to say than "lol salt qq ur fat" then I yes, I do get a lot of comments and support. Access to Valhalla items isn't so easy and I keep people waiting almost a year before I'm willing to SELL them a creation. I do not like to be used.

 

Look at these forums look at who posts and not only posts but actually posts about the game. "Small" guildleaders won't post because they think they're not gonna be listened to or whatever. I call baloney. You're only a small guildleader so long as you act like one. Start visibly giving a damn and caring about the game and people know they are joining a community that is going to be active and actually playing. When you repeatedly post "I don't care" or "we don't care" or "we don't want to try" then who would want to join that guild? If you devote your entire existance to talking about how the server isn't worth it / blaming other players for the fact you play WOW all day and not RO then....

 

I've had people join my guild after watching my stream. They'll say stuff like "I used to play on classic but it was dead." I ask "what guild?" And the answers are almost invariably the same. Sometimes a lot less of the blame lays on the server than just on the attitude of the people these guys were playing against.

 

And yes, you're always going to get Mr.Scrubs. They quite annoy me and I like to devote time to punishing players who do that kind of thing. I recall an incident where a Mr.ScrubBR decided to get gobby in BG and started trashtalking me when killing my (then new!) guildies and I wasn't even there. I PMed him and he said all kinds of things.

The next WoE I strapped on all my equipment, punished them, videoed it, published it.

 

I quite like that guild. I disagree with some of the stuff they do, but that is going to be their own problem. The players have a lot of spirit and they grow quite fast. Not everyone is gonna stay with you tho, perhaps that's more about the guild than the game at that stage.

 

I'm not saying btw, that classic doesn't need major fixes, it does. But the community factors a lot into these things. The fact that SGN had 40+ players are the weekend seemingly at random says a lot for community motivation. Valhalla btw, only averages high 20s maybe 30s. We hit 40 on an exceptional day. I'll be the first to admit I'm being a lazy leader atm (actually Valhalla might admit it too) - but I just can't stand reading all this "woe is me" (forgive the pun) when the only guild publicity I see from these folks is highly negative, either in playing a victim card, attacking other players or publicly preaching their dislike of partaking in any ingame activity.

 

 

Ok maybe that's not so much aimed at you Rampage, but you know, I'm sure there's something you can take away from that too.

[YesterdaySaltMmm]

Disable gods and mvps .... reduce castles to 2. Woe is fun again. If people are too afraid to woe then, well that is proof Noone cares to woe or learn.
I'll be honest ... I don't care about the small guilds because they don't care to even get better at the game.
Loots are moots, woe is about fighting, giving every one man guild a castle is lame and only encourages cowardly play. Small guilds need loots too ... for what? To still hide?

Everyone on this server has a bazillion god pieces, who cares about loots at this point. Promote an actual woe scene and not a farm fest.

[Xellie]

The reason ranks and leagues exist in other games is to prevent the forcing of that very scenario ^

[schia]

what about instead of nerfing hibrams, what about making hibrams not stackable with mind breaker?  As the damage from hibrams alone is bearable, its only when you throw in mindbreaker that it reaches a level that is untankable even with full resists.

 

What if hibrams just did, x% chance on magic attack: cast level y mind breaker on self.  That way it won't be stackable with mindbreaker and it would give it more pve functionality.

 

Of course, this is just assuming that the management/community cares about anything more than just simple number tweaks.

 

TL:DR server reset

[Xellie]

what about instead of nerfing hibrams, what about making hibrams not stackable with mind breaker?  As the damage from hibrams alone is bearable, its only when you throw in mindbreaker that it reaches a level that is untankable even with full resists.

 

What if hibrams just did, x% chance on magic attack: cast level y mind breaker on self.  That way it won't be stackable with mindbreaker and it would give it more pve functionality.

 

Of course, this is just assuming that the management/community cares about anything more than just simple number tweaks.

 

TL:DR server reset

 

Ideal but probably not doable.

[Nathy]

Mbk fbh is tank able tho..

[schia]

it is doable.  Although possibly not with the on magic attack component as afaik theres no "on magic attack script" campitor can cannibalize for classic.  He would have to actually write something from scratch and experiment to get it to behave as intended.  You know something that sakray was designed for.

[AlmrOfAtlas]

The myriad of calcs posted here and in-game experience says otherwise.

[YesterdaySaltMmm]

But aren't those both over exaggerated lol

[AlmrOfAtlas]

Some of the calcs were of ideal circumstances for the Hibram HW, but most weren't. Even the 10-15k per tick ones were quite serious though because, tankable as they are, if you add even one additional source of damage they become overwhelming, and since we're talking about GvG applications of the card, that's quite common.

And getting that damage down to tankable levels requires redux for the element the HW is using, which can easily be circumvented by changing up the element they're using to punish wearing specific redux.

No single character should be able to pump out those kinds of numbers in AoE and have that much versatility in their damage. This isn't Renewal >.>

Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 26 November 2015 - 04:55 PM.

[Xellie]

That was calced with gear my guild HW uses/has access to - nothing particularly insane.

 

realistic and excluding all other damage sources.

[AlmrOfAtlas]

That was calced with gear my guild HW uses/has access to - nothing particularly insane.

realistic and excluding all other damage sources.

Wait so those damage calcs you posted were just the usual gear, cap + tsod et cetera, without FBH?

jfc lol that's even worse.

[rojoky113]

No it was hibram with their usual matck gear. Amped JT 1 shots lower hp classes, unamped is a spammable over 10k a hit for pretty ridic DPS. Not everyone can walk around in wind armor, but if they don't drop just switch element. One SG can drop entire guilds without an ME. FBH is definitely one of most powerful cards on the server, if not the most powerful. Does it NEED a nerf? I'm generally on the side of not nerfing/disabling mvp cards but if anything can make the argument for doing so its hibram so idk. If it were up to me, I'd keep an eye on it for consideration for now. Or make reasonable changes to mindbreak rather than nerf mvp cards. Other changes to revitalize the server seem like a higher priority to me than whether hibrams and/or mindbreak need toning down though.

Edited by rojoky113, 26 November 2015 - 05:33 PM.

[arcx3ro]

Personally I could not care less what happens to hibram or any other mvp/god item in woe. Disable them totally for all I care. I would love to see dispellable chems on all sides. I would love to see guilds still get wrecked when their DLP goes down if their SPP is bad. I would like to see people leaking off of their LP into NML and actually getting punsihed for it. No more 1HKO sonic blows. It would come down to who has more skill or overwhelming numbers.

 

However, you're alienating people who put in hard work for their items. This is also why a full server reset would do as much harm as good. Too many people put too much time just for them to rip it all waya from them.

[Xellie]

YFW you realize you use too many TLAs. IDK its stupid IMO DLP NML LOL SPP HUE OLP BFF MBK FBH FML GTB IDC

 

wonder how many people with authority to make the decisions understands any of that garbage.

Edited by Xellie, 26 November 2015 - 08:52 PM.

[arcx3ro]

I would suggest to them that they educate themselves on the game that they run, if that's the case. I would also not assume that they don't. I guess I can give you no man's land, as that doesn't come up in a quick google search. In any case, your post seemed pretty petty. More of an attack than anything constructive. That's not exactly setting a good precedence.

[Xellie]

I would suggest to them that they educate themselves on the game that they run, if that's the case. I would also not assume that they don't. I guess I can give you no man's land, as that doesn't come up in a quick google search. In any case, your post seemed pretty petty. More of an attack than anything constructive. That's not exactly setting a good precedence.

 

Actually no, you can't expect them to research all of the names and alternative names and stuff. We're right here, why don't we just explain it like it needs to be explained? They need the time to work on the game too, not google all the acronyms the playerbase are using!

Half the player base doesn't know what any of this stuff means either. Hell, as an iRO only player I had to go learn too. These staff haven't worked on pservers afaik... so it might be more constructive and better to explain it to them rather than vaguely throwing out random stuff.

 

See Hrishi's post about 1 vit bios. I think a staff member asked me in the past 2 years if Gfist is always forced neutral. Look, they are very few they do not have the time to learn about these things in that capacity. You're being unrealistic.

 

 

Also these changes affect woe 1 too, you have to consider this.

Edited by Xellie, 26 November 2015 - 09:11 PM.

[schia]

Problem with new guilds is that they lack the survivability to be competitive even against non mvp carded end-game geared hwiz.  This is not something anyone can even address without fundamentally changing the time to kill while also addressing potion spammability.  Changing hibrams to proc mind break would just give wizards a ramp up time in their potential damage output which would very slightly increase the time to kill.  It would also probably make the card stronger overall as it would be potentially more valuable for pve scenarios; however, it would just be a bandaid fix in the underlying problem of low time to kill and high heals per second.

 

The woe environment, especially with the current concentration of both player skill and item power does not allow for an environment that would even permit a new guild to grow.  There is absolutely no reason for new players to start their own guild instead of jumping into an already established guild.  For this to be addressed, player skill and player power needs to be diluted via large influx of new player.  However, I think we are far beyond the point where even tripling the woe population would even dilute the item power available.  Pretty sure classic probably have over 50 high tier mvp cards by now, honestly that is 50 too many imo.

 

There are 2 methods you can do to give new guilds just a tiny bit of chance of surviving.  Server reset being 1, but we would end up at the exact same scenario we're at now in a year or two.  The other method would be to have 3rd woe.   While we cannot limit player skill concentration, we can limit power.  Give new guilds a 3rd woe they can play with, an environment that has no mvp/gods.  No need to close castles, just delegate 2 realms for the 3rd woe.  Rotate realms around every other month or so to switch things up, this could also tie in with an econ reset every rotation as well to slow the flooding of god items.  2 realms per woe would be more than enough for all the guilds to play around with considering the current population.

 

Next thing you need to address is barrier of entry and opportunity costs for a new guild.  Rewarding the winners of woe so they can be even stronger would just create an even larger power gap this includes rewarding the winners with an endless supply of consumables.  I still firmly believe that TI's should reward tokens or whatever that players can turn in for consumables/supplies.  This would give the average player that do not win woes the opportunity to efficiently gather supplies to better compete in the next woe.  Allowing players to self fulfill their own supply needs would reduce the burden on guild leaders.  While linking the resupply method to TI's would hopefully promote more partying and therefore more opportunities for players to play and learn their class.  Giving more means of obtaining supplies would not affect the current woe market as everyone is already at maximum saturation for supplies.  You could then convert GSB's into tokens, and have players be able to turn them in for specific things they want at a lesser amount.  This would curb the total supply of goods while removing the RNG factor in resupplying a guild.  Knowing you need exactly 100 tokens to supply 50 people with 500 slims each is much easier to manage than needing to farm between 10 to 500 boxes for random amounts of stuff you want and then figuring out what you do with the rest of the trash.  gsb's are garbage and ruined the economy, but no one cares so do whatever you want.  Economy is dead anyway so everything is useless.

 

Giving the option of having the TI tokens be converted into bg badges would also be a good method for new players to gather their starting woe gear by just grabbing a set of BG gear.  This would also be streamlined with their natural character development as they continue to grind/level up via TI parties or whatever they do these days.  Obviously have the conversion rate be so that doing normal BG's are worthwhile.  Creating a custom scaled up level 90+ monsters that drop woe relevant cards like thara/noxious/alligator/whatever and dump it into TI zones would help increase the availability of the necessary gear.  Hell just reskin a thara frog and give it bio1 monster stats it would be good enough.  This would lower the barrier of entry into woe without needing to create freebie woe gear or whatever dumb things people want.

 

Finally, you want to address the concentration of competent players.  Janeway breeds players into being lazy and uneducated about their class.  They are just dumped at level 70, what is essentially mid game in their character development without any knowledge about playing their class or know about their gear deficits.  While I do believe some form of janeway is necessary.  The current form is unacceptable.  Make janeway continue to have a quest every 10 level, but only give them 50% of the total exp needed to the next tier.  That means if they turn in at level 10, they'll end up at like level 17 etc etc.  Forcing players to play their class even for just a few levels at a time would give them the opportunity to learn about their class.  By skipping the leveling process you are denying players the opportunity to learn about their own class deficits.  Learning about your class weaknesses is what is necessary for players to learn how to survive. Helping players through the low levels while also giving them the opportunity to learn, you would hopefully breed players that are at least 10% competent in their class by the time they hit mid/end game.  Feeding the woe environment with players that are at least familiar with their class would help dilute the total player skill concentration as these players could have the potential of surviving on their own instead of needing to be hand held by bigger guilds.

 

Then again the management don't want opinions of people that don't like the classic community, so do whatever you guys want and the entirety of classic server can go die in a fire because the people that actually cared have left already.  Congratulations, you ran them all off.  You can thank the remaining classic community for your slowly dwindling population base.  Pretty much everything happened exactly as we said it would and the current state of affairs is exactly as expected.  You can forget about wanting to regain the people that left, your only remaining viable option is to raise a fresh batch of players and this would require actual advertising.  But advertising is never happening because that actually requires you guys to spend money.  Good luck with that, maybe you can start a gofundme and beg for some advertisement money.

 

TL:DR just pull the plug its too late for even a server reset. 

 

inb4 <cinnabomb'd>

[ShinRyoma]

 

 

Ok maybe that's not so much aimed at you Rampage, but you know, I'm sure there's something you can take away from that too.

 

There is. Appreciate the insight. I'll make sure our leader reads this whole thread.

 

 

This was one of the most helpful posts IMO, even considering I don't agree with everything. Those are actual ideas.

 

Don't know and don't care about what you might have said before, but if this is from someone that doesn't care about Classic and it's community, I think we need more people to stop caring. 

[CharBestGrill]

Suggestions:

1. Back in pRO there was a time people did WoE commentaries with interviews with guild masters before and after siege. Why not make it a standard?

2. Make WoE NPC items only.

Edited by CharBestGrill, 27 November 2015 - 06:54 AM.

[Heart]

Problem with new guilds is that they lack the survivability to be competitive even against non mvp carded end-game geared hwiz.  This is not something anyone can even address without fundamentally changing the time to kill while also addressing potion spammability.  Changing hibrams to proc mind break would just give wizards a ramp up time in their potential damage output which would very slightly increase the time to kill.  It would also probably make the card stronger overall as it would be potentially more valuable for pve scenarios; however, it would just be a bandaid fix in the underlying problem of low time to kill and high heals per second.

 

The woe environment, especially with the current concentration of both player skill and item power does not allow for an environment that would even permit a new guild to grow.  There is absolutely no reason for new players to start their own guild instead of jumping into an already established guild.  For this to be addressed, player skill and player power needs to be diluted via large influx of new player.  However, I think we are far beyond the point where even tripling the woe population would even dilute the item power available.  Pretty sure classic probably have over 50 high tier mvp cards by now, honestly that is 50 too many imo.

 

There are 2 methods you can do to give new guilds just a tiny bit of chance of surviving.  Server reset being 1, but we would end up at the exact same scenario we're at now in a year or two.  The other method would be to have 3rd woe.   While we cannot limit player skill concentration, we can limit power.  Give new guilds a 3rd woe they can play with, an environment that has no mvp/gods.  No need to close castles, just delegate 2 realms for the 3rd woe.  Rotate realms around every other month or so to switch things up, this could also tie in with an econ reset every rotation as well to slow the flooding of god items.  2 realms per woe would be more than enough for all the guilds to play around with considering the current population.

 

Next thing you need to address is barrier of entry and opportunity costs for a new guild.  Rewarding the winners of woe so they can be even stronger would just create an even larger power gap this includes rewarding the winners with an endless supply of consumables.  I still firmly believe that TI's should reward tokens or whatever that players can turn in for consumables/supplies.  This would give the average player that do not win woes the opportunity to efficiently gather supplies to better compete in the next woe.  Allowing players to self fulfill their own supply needs would reduce the burden on guild leaders.  While linking the resupply method to TI's would hopefully promote more partying and therefore more opportunities for players to play and learn their class.  Giving more means of obtaining supplies would not affect the current woe market as everyone is already at maximum saturation for supplies.  You could then convert GSB's into tokens, and have players be able to turn them in for specific things they want at a lesser amount.  This would curb the total supply of goods while removing the RNG factor in resupplying a guild.  Knowing you need exactly 100 tokens to supply 50 people with 500 slims each is much easier to manage than needing to farm between 10 to 500 boxes for random amounts of stuff you want and then figuring out what you do with the rest of the trash.  gsb's are garbage and ruined the economy, but no one cares so do whatever you want.  Economy is dead anyway so everything is useless.

 

Giving the option of having the TI tokens be converted into bg badges would also be a good method for new players to gather their starting woe gear by just grabbing a set of BG gear.  This would also be streamlined with their natural character development as they continue to grind/level up via TI parties or whatever they do these days.  Obviously have the conversion rate be so that doing normal BG's are worthwhile.  Creating a custom scaled up level 90+ monsters that drop woe relevant cards like thara/noxious/alligator/whatever and dump it into TI zones would help increase the availability of the necessary gear.  Hell just reskin a thara frog and give it bio1 monster stats it would be good enough.  This would lower the barrier of entry into woe without needing to create freebie woe gear or whatever dumb things people want.

 

Finally, you want to address the concentration of competent players.  Janeway breeds players into being lazy and uneducated about their class.  They are just dumped at level 70, what is essentially mid game in their character development without any knowledge about playing their class or know about their gear deficits.  While I do believe some form of janeway is necessary.  The current form is unacceptable.  Make janeway continue to have a quest every 10 level, but only give them 50% of the total exp needed to the next tier.  That means if they turn in at level 10, they'll end up at like level 17 etc etc.  Forcing players to play their class even for just a few levels at a time would give them the opportunity to learn about their class.  By skipping the leveling process you are denying players the opportunity to learn about their own class deficits.  Learning about your class weaknesses is what is necessary for players to learn how to survive. Helping players through the low levels while also giving them the opportunity to learn, you would hopefully breed players that are at least 10% competent in their class by the time they hit mid/end game.  Feeding the woe environment with players that are at least familiar with their class would help dilute the total player skill concentration as these players could have the potential of surviving on their own instead of needing to be hand held by bigger guilds.

 

Then again the management don't want opinions of people that don't like the classic community, so do whatever you guys want and the entirety of classic server can go die in a fire because the people that actually cared have left already.  Congratulations, you ran them all off.  You can thank the remaining classic community for your slowly dwindling population base.  Pretty much everything happened exactly as we said it would and the current state of affairs is exactly as expected.  You can forget about wanting to regain the people that left, your only remaining viable option is to raise a fresh batch of players and this would require actual advertising.  But advertising is never happening because that actually requires you guys to spend money.  Good luck with that, maybe you can start a gofundme and beg for some advertisement money.

 

TL:DR just pull the plug its too late for even a server reset. 

 

inb4 <cinnabomb'd>

 

I think is post is probably one of the posts that suggests things that this server needs, I really wouldn't mind if any of this, if not all of this was actually implemented. The whole tieing up TI with tokens I think is a great idea, this would surely lower the barrier of entry for guilds by reducing load on supplies.
 

[Xellie]

Problem with new guilds is that they lack the survivability to be competitive even against non mvp carded end-game geared hwiz.  This is not something anyone can even address without fundamentally changing the time to kill while also addressing potion spammability.  Changing hibrams to proc mind break would just give wizards a ramp up time in their potential damage output which would very slightly increase the time to kill.  It would also probably make the card stronger overall as it would be potentially more valuable for pve scenarios; however, it would just be a bandaid fix in the underlying problem of low time to kill and high heals per second.

 

The woe environment, especially with the current concentration of both player skill and item power does not allow for an environment that would even permit a new guild to grow.  There is absolutely no reason for new players to start their own guild instead of jumping into an already established guild.  For this to be addressed, player skill and player power needs to be diluted via large influx of new player.  However, I think we are far beyond the point where even tripling the woe population would even dilute the item power available.  Pretty sure classic probably have over 50 high tier mvp cards by now, honestly that is 50 too many imo.

 

There are 2 methods you can do to give new guilds just a tiny bit of chance of surviving.  Server reset being 1, but we would end up at the exact same scenario we're at now in a year or two.  The other method would be to have 3rd woe.   While we cannot limit player skill concentration, we can limit power.  Give new guilds a 3rd woe they can play with, an environment that has no mvp/gods.  No need to close castles, just delegate 2 realms for the 3rd woe.  Rotate realms around every other month or so to switch things up, this could also tie in with an econ reset every rotation as well to slow the flooding of god items.  2 realms per woe would be more than enough for all the guilds to play around with considering the current population.

 

Next thing you need to address is barrier of entry and opportunity costs for a new guild.  Rewarding the winners of woe so they can be even stronger would just create an even larger power gap this includes rewarding the winners with an endless supply of consumables.  I still firmly believe that TI's should reward tokens or whatever that players can turn in for consumables/supplies.  This would give the average player that do not win woes the opportunity to efficiently gather supplies to better compete in the next woe.  Allowing players to self fulfill their own supply needs would reduce the burden on guild leaders.  While linking the resupply method to TI's would hopefully promote more partying and therefore more opportunities for players to play and learn their class.  Giving more means of obtaining supplies would not affect the current woe market as everyone is already at maximum saturation for supplies.  You could then convert GSB's into tokens, and have players be able to turn them in for specific things they want at a lesser amount.  This would curb the total supply of goods while removing the RNG factor in resupplying a guild.  Knowing you need exactly 100 tokens to supply 50 people with 500 slims each is much easier to manage than needing to farm between 10 to 500 boxes for random amounts of stuff you want and then figuring out what you do with the rest of the trash.  gsb's are garbage and ruined the economy, but no one cares so do whatever you want.  Economy is dead anyway so everything is useless.

 

Giving the option of having the TI tokens be converted into bg badges would also be a good method for new players to gather their starting woe gear by just grabbing a set of BG gear.  This would also be streamlined with their natural character development as they continue to grind/level up via TI parties or whatever they do these days.  Obviously have the conversion rate be so that doing normal BG's are worthwhile.  Creating a custom scaled up level 90+ monsters that drop woe relevant cards like thara/noxious/alligator/whatever and dump it into TI zones would help increase the availability of the necessary gear.  Hell just reskin a thara frog and give it bio1 monster stats it would be good enough.  This would lower the barrier of entry into woe without needing to create freebie woe gear or whatever dumb things people want.

 

Finally, you want to address the concentration of competent players.  Janeway breeds players into being lazy and uneducated about their class.  They are just dumped at level 70, what is essentially mid game in their character development without any knowledge about playing their class or know about their gear deficits.  While I do believe some form of janeway is necessary.  The current form is unacceptable.  Make janeway continue to have a quest every 10 level, but only give them 50% of the total exp needed to the next tier.  That means if they turn in at level 10, they'll end up at like level 17 etc etc.  Forcing players to play their class even for just a few levels at a time would give them the opportunity to learn about their class.  By skipping the leveling process you are denying players the opportunity to learn about their own class deficits.  Learning about your class weaknesses is what is necessary for players to learn how to survive. Helping players through the low levels while also giving them the opportunity to learn, you would hopefully breed players that are at least 10% competent in their class by the time they hit mid/end game.  Feeding the woe environment with players that are at least familiar with their class would help dilute the total player skill concentration as these players could have the potential of surviving on their own instead of needing to be hand held by bigger guilds.

 

Then again the management don't want opinions of people that don't like the classic community, so do whatever you guys want and the entirety of classic server can go die in a fire because the people that actually cared have left already.  Congratulations, you ran them all off.  You can thank the remaining classic community for your slowly dwindling population base.  Pretty much everything happened exactly as we said it would and the current state of affairs is exactly as expected.  You can forget about wanting to regain the people that left, your only remaining viable option is to raise a fresh batch of players and this would require actual advertising.  But advertising is never happening because that actually requires you guys to spend money.  Good luck with that, maybe you can start a gofundme and beg for some advertisement money.

 

TL:DR just pull the plug its too late for even a server reset. 

 

inb4 <cinnabomb'd>

 

It's nothing we haven't said before, I keep suggesting consumables (gsb/badge/token) from TI to force a playerbase to be created for new players instead of a desert wasteland too.

 

The only thing I Can tell you is that a server reset isn't an option and

 

I'm scared a third woe will be trolled hard by the "experienced" players. Experience is a lot more dangerous to a new player than gods/mvps imo, but there's no way to prevent this.

RO is pretty unforgiving in its learning curve

 

Janeway, however, is flawed and they've been told this a bunch of times. Staff don't listen.

 

You wanna talk about stuff happening as we said it would? It's not the fault of those of us that still play. Many of us have called out the mistakes as they happen and still don't get listened to (or undermimed/contradicted out of spite) - see god saturation. lol. Janeway. Drop rate events. Telling ya card values are poo as well. Ygg item saturation, lack of rewards in WoE. It goes on.

 

I have you on ignore Schia, but only because you're so hostile all the time. Sometimes I like your ideas and I take time to read the posts. Other times, there's... no.

 

I find it very hard to be a nice person on these froums because of the amount of vitriol spewed 90% of the time. And this is important - feedback from my stream (I got something like 5 players to DL iRO this week) and from new players coming to the game suggest that the community isn't favorable (people even pm me about that!), and we don't even have a place to centralize classic information or chatter. We have to bump threads that answer key questions that new players have (such as god owners list, this comes up a LOT).

 

I can tell people a lot about the questions asked about iRO by incoming players. We don't have places for them to find this info. Classic is like a game with no documentation.

Edited by Xellie, 27 November 2015 - 09:21 AM.

[rojoky113]

Among the suggestions I am putting together to fix the problems I see in the different areas of the game, one of the main pvm additions is new turn ins after janeway. New players need further direction and experienced players need motivation to help them instead of screwing off to thors or grinding away by themselves. RO also has a ton of cool areas and mobs that never see any action, everything is just goats/ID3/AL for parties and thors for leeches and well equipped players.

The idea I'm thinking of to try and accomplish that at the moment is an NPC that hands out a turn in for a random level appropriate area maybe in lists by 5 level blocks, and if a party leader talks to the npc they can get the same quest for everyone in the party who doesn't currently have a TI, including players above that level block. Go as a party (or attempt it solo, for the brave or well geared), do the TI, and any players who are in the correct level block get a BIG chunk of experience, like even worth a level or two towards the lower ends. Big enough that going out into unexplored/random territory to try and finish the TI is worth it compared to sitting in goats or something all day. If you don't like your TI or can't do it, you can trade for a new one after a certain number of hours, long enough that it encourages trying to do the TIs even if its hard because of the large exp reward, but then if you can't you can eventually get a new one.

However, in addition to that reward, players of ANY LEVEL turning in that quest they got get to pick from a second list of rewards. On this list are item rewards from a list that contains things like a handful of GSBs, some sort of personal woe supplies (woe blues/whites ala BG?), pvm supplies/potions (with 0 resale value, a regular battle manual or gum or two, etc. Useful supply/consumable items.

What I'm trying to put together is something that gives new players something to do directly after janeway that gets them out to see all the great unused content in the game that isn't normally lucrative enough, partying with other players, gives them a good leveling rate and gives them consumables to help them supply themselves in pvm and/or woe OR that they can sell to other players to give them a starting source of income and begin to understand how the economy works and buying new gear from other players. Additionally, being able to get items for helping lower level players gives other experienced players an incentive to party with the new players leveling. Instead of grinding GD for hours solo in order to have to supply your guild, you can get supplies just by partying up and helping new players whether they are in your guild or not.

At 99 you can do challenge dungeon TIs for supplies or new world equips or other cool things.



For MVPing, add useful drops to lower level mvps that make them more useful to hunt other than the off chance of a card, like GSBs again or maybe even something like foods. That way, you can help supply your guild and maybe yourself while mvping, to hopefully make mvping more appealing and get people doing it since they can supply at the same time instead of grinding away in GD. Maybe even random mvp turn ins you can get like the leveling turn ins above, where you get a random mvp and if you and/or your party can nail mvp you can go get a nice reward for that as well.



For woe: take maybe 2 castles in every realm, make them training edition castles. Shuffle their drops into other castles (double up sleip forts lol). 1.0 TE castle drops are geared towards helping new guilds establish themselves but not being that useful for established guilds, like boxes of woe whites/blues or account bound lesser/unupgradeable versions of standard woe equipment that new guilds can hand out to their underdeveloped players to make them more woe viable. 2.0 TE forts don't drop god pieces but offer supplies more attractive to more established guilds, maybe things like ACAs (or just OCAs?) and yggs.

3 woes a week, normal woe wednesday night and saturday, training edition friday night. Gods and MVPs disabled in training edition. Both 1.0 and 2.0 active at the same time. Normal edition spread out in the week keeps econs from getting as high with more breaks. TE offers a woe time more friendly to other time zones and a place for non-mvp/god combat for guilds still growing and for those that enjoy it, plus more woe action to actually log on for (and play the game outside of woe for). With 1.0 and 2.0 active at the same time, bigger guilds who like to gvg will tend towards 2.0 and the growing guilds will tend towards the 1.0 they are more used to and enjoy. The better 2.0 TE drops is intended to keep that split in TE woe so big guilds don't just go rolfstomp the smaller non-gvg guilds all woe. But there will still be interaction which will hopefully stimulate improvement. And this also includes the castle reduction people have been asking for.

Also, disable alliances.

Also also, open a public GD to give smaller/starting guilds another chance to supply without having to have a castle.



The goal is to tone down the korean mmo grind, get people partying, pvming and mvping instead of solo grinding for supplies or items so they can have more fun actually playing the game with each other and new players, lower the barriers to entry and ease them into pvp/woe/mvping, and change woe so that it offers more action that different groups want or need throughout the week while offering incentives and progression based on their growing woe ability. THIS is the sort of stuff that classic needs imo.

Also a god item creation overhaul is a good idea, might share my ideas later. For 2.0, just make creations take multiple pieces and its fine, you can have the castles without doubled up drops need only half of that item to keep it even. 1.0 needs a bigger overhaul.

New BGs and pvp modes that tackle some of its current problems too, also have a bunch to say about that but right now I have to go to work so maybe I'll post that later.

EDIT: Because its slow and I have time.

BGs: the problem with battlegrounds right now are:

1) it takes too many people to start and play tierra. There are ALWAYS alts or bots making up the numbers.

2) it is too easy to bot/afk for badges because you don't have to do jack and get so many for losing.

3) the "randomizing" sucks because it just splits the chat into top or bottom, so all bots (sometimes its literally an entire teams worth PS you need to do some regular bot nuking at battlegrounds) get in instantly and all get on one side.

4) most people play bgs because they need supplies (or equips), but counterintuitively you have to spend supplies to actually fight, which a lot of people don't want to do.

So it ends up an afk/bot farmfest with a handful of people even playing, much less trying in order to have fun and actually fight.

Possible starting solutions are to lower the number of people needed to play, improve the randomization and significantly decrease the badge reward for losing while increasing the reward for winning.

A cool long term improvement, if possible, would be temporary bg supplies usable only in bg that are given for each round or respawn then taken in exchange for badges at the end. These could be class specific (like a couple edp for sinxs) and other consumables could maybe be disabled as well. Then players can put in effort without feeling like they are wasting supplies when they want to be gaining them.

Newer and more fun bg modes are definitely also needed.

And if possible I would love to figure out a way to make it so you have to actually do something or contribute in some way to be awarded badges. Afks get nothing but anybody actually playing and trying can get badges, win or lose.

Edited by rojoky113, 27 November 2015 - 04:37 PM.